Merry Christmas from Donald Trump

[Unregistered]

What did obama due to Russia when they invaded and annexed part of a sovereign country? Trump has done more for less than obama ever did in 8 years. Mr red line president!

Ps....don’t give me the election meddling garbage either. The us has been doing that for over 75 years. We even back candidates with arms and taxpayer money in foreign countries. We just about every Central American, middle eastern and African country.

Moral relativism is not a defense.

What would you have done if you were Obama in the annexation of Crimea? Go ahead, tell us what you would have done that was not done by President Obama.

And any meddling we have been doing is just as wrong as the meddling done to us. I'll go after any politician I can that is proven to be a willful participant in that behavior.

So should you, right?

[Unregistered]

No need for bombing. Economic and social isolation is the trick. If Europe halted purchases of Russian fossil fuels their economy would tank overnight. It's already in rough shape as it is. Make it even harder for the oligarchs to travel to all the places they have homes or their kids attend fancy boarding schools.

Perhaps, but this is a global economy now and Europe needs the fossil fuels from Russia.


Thus, the dilemma.

[Unregistered]

Moral relativism is not a defense.

What would you have done if you were Obama in the annexation of Crimea? Go ahead, tell us what you would have done that was not done by President Obama.

And any meddling we have been doing is just as wrong as the meddling done to us. I'll go after any politician I can that is proven to be a willful participant in that behavior.

So should you, right?

Obama had lots of options in Crimea and the Ukraine- he stopped arms shipments to the Ukraine we are doing that now to whats left- missile defense to Poland (doing it now, they send the message that it will be messy
- but Obama wasnt into confrontation
as far as meddling -I dont care about it one bit other than I want the US to be the best ones at it and the best at catching it and it seems we are no better than 2nd- that pisses me off
we used to be the best ( apparently it was happening ,we knew about it ,and we did nothing, now we are upset- i dont get it)
truth is all countries meddle in each others affairs and have for decades in the case of the russians and centuries in some cases- we have since at least Teddy Roosevelt

[Unregistered]

Perhaps, but this is a global economy now and Europe needs the fossil fuels from Russia.


Thus, the dilemma.

now the russians would tank if the euros stopped buying- but 5 years from now who rolls over when Russia turns off the tap thats the dilemma

Energy is a strategic resource - what good is an alliance against a country and then a big part of that alliance is dependent on the country in question

thus, the dilemma

[Unregistered]

now the russians would tank if the euros stopped buying- but 5 years from now who rolls over when Russia turns off the tap thats the dilemma

Energy is a strategic resource - what good is an alliance against a country and then a big part of that alliance is dependent on the country in question

thus, the dilemma

Agreed.

It's a global economy. Who knows how long this concept of nation states can continue in a world intrinsically tied together through global trade.

[Unregistered]

Agreed.

It's a global economy. Who knows how long this concept of nation states can continue in a world intrinsically tied together through global trade.

thats just europe- it the way it always been- thats why all the really big wars start there
they become dependent on each other but they all really hate each other (Kingdom BS )
if the Germans want to rely on the Russians for their life blood (there choice) what good is NATO? if there is a supply dispute , is that an Attack on a member?

[Unregistered]

Perhaps, but this is a global economy now and Europe needs the fossil fuels from Russia.


Thus, the dilemma.

Part of the reason they've been furiously adding solar and wind power - not only for the planet but to reduce their dependence on other nations

[Unregistered]

When are you going to get past this election ****? Regardless of what the problem is, you fall back always on this disgruntled Hillary Clinton rationale. The bottom line.....Trump is the "lawful" President of this country. Regardless of how he came into office, we have no mechanism to displace him because of the election result. We Democrats accept this. He won the electoral vote. That is over. We are past that, why can't you get past it?

Because deep down, you know, as well as we do, that there is a difference between being the lawful President and being the "legitimate" President. Even Trump understands this, probably more than the rest of the Republicans.

These things are not in doubt. The Russians meddled in the 2016 election, with the purpose of helping Trump defeat Clinton. Not because they loved Trump, but because they feared and hated Clinton more. It appears now, based on the latest news reports, even from Fox, that on January 6, 2017, the national intelligence leadership showed Trump in that meeting in Trump Tower exactly how the meddling was being done and showed him clear intelligence that it came from the direction of Putin. This was two weeks before the inauguration. The men in that room said that even then, Trump only grudgingly accepted the intelligence. This was the same meeting that Comey, in private, first told Trump about the Steele dossier and some of the salacious information contained within it. These facts are not in dispute any longer.

So all Trump's bull**** about not knowing and not believing it was Putin and that "others" could be involved is all about one thing. Deep down, he questions the legitimacy of his own Presidency.

Those Russians hacked the DNC. They got the 33,000 emails and worked in the background with Wikileaks on how to get them in the public eye to do the most damage they could to Clinton. The Russians got Democratic information on voters, trends and Democratic strategies. Did they reveal any of this to the people in the Trump campaign?
I think this is what might lie at the heart of the Mueller investigation. Based on the number of indictments and guilty pleas, there is no doubt that there was plenty of skull duggery going on. People broke the law. They need to be brought to justice and that's what is happening here.

I think Trump feels that this whole meddling thing undermines his legitimacy as President, even if it has no lawful impact. As this investigation continues to peel the layers off the onion and we see deeper and deeper into what the Russians were attempting to do, he grows more and more panicky about what lies there at the core of this. Otherwise, why would he not demand total transparency and embrace the Mueller investigation?

Then you take his whole demeanor and approach to foreign policy. He has been difficult, overbearing and a borderline bully with our allies. Yet when he has to face another authoritarian leader, like those in the Philippines, North Korea, China and most importantly, Russia, he is deferential and nearly the complete opposite in demeanor? Why is that? I think it lies in his basic respect for that style and type of leadership. It's much akin to being the leader of a corporation, instead of the leader of a democracy, so he warms to that.

His attitude towards Russia, despite the overwhelming evidence facing him, is simply unexplained. It's the attitude and demeanor of a person who is suborning himself to another on purpose. How can he ignore the entire US Intelligence service findings or dismiss them as he does? How can he have this private summit with Putin and then not brief his own intelligence people on the substance of that conversation?

How can any of us, as Americans, ignore this or dismiss it, because the economy is superficially doing well? Isn't that the only reason we don't toss this guy out already?


The most amazing thing in all this is that his lies are clearly proven. Thousands of them, on all manners of things and issues. How can anyone support a person who stands before you and lies right to your face and expects you to believe him? I don't care what the issue might be. If you lie to me, regardless of topic, you've lost my trust and support.


You cannot justify any of this with moral relativism. You cannot through the "yeah, but what about" argument here any longer. This is all about Trump and his dishonesty with and to the American people. He knew well over a year ago what was going on and he denies it still.

We can take up the corruption in his Cabinet and the huge turnover in his administration in another session.

We have this guy for a couple more years here. Let's vote in November and defang him.

You started off logical but then you’re inaccuracies and conjecture ruined the credibility of your argument. First, the Russians attempted to get Hilary’s 33,000 emails but there is no evidence that they obtained them. Second, the guilty pleas so far have nothing to do with collusion or Coordination with Russia’s election meddling. Most are completely unrelated. The rest is just conjecture.

Let me throw this hypothetical out there. Say the DCN hack had nothing to do with Russia but perhaps some over zealous conservative teenager from the US. Let’s say his high school competitive liberal friend wanted to one-up him and obtained questions to one of the presidential debates. So one shared DCN emails to Wikileaks and one passed on debate questions to Hilary. Which one do you think would have more of an impact to the outcome of the election?

[Unregistered]

As long as you are equally OK with the FukTARTs businesses and services refusing to serve you as well because of your beliefs and feelings.


You are OK with that, right?

I’m very ok with that because the majority of Dems & Liberals are decent people with a heart & understanding of a difference for the people of color, disability, gender & religion.
It’s the Democrats that are standing up not like that fat slob Mrs Piggy who lies everyday doing her daily briefing in front of millions of people.

Oh and BTW I keep hearing that the Russian meddling didn’t effect the American vote in 2016.
Well yes it did, why then was the media so saturated with Wiki leaks, pizza gate and a whole range of false narratives because it was to Surpress the vote. There’s plenty of dumb deplorable Fukktarts that were conned into believing there was a child sex ring run by HC in s pizza shop, it got to the point that some poor fukkkkk nearly died.
Where is all those stories now? The intelligence agencies know it’ll start again right after the summer.

[Unregistered]

Bomb Russia Now!

Nuke 5-6 Major cities in Russia and that’s all it’ll take the rest of the country is no mans land they'll die for the lack of food and water

[Unregistered]

Repugs refuse to add more spending to protect our elections.

"WASHINGTON - House Republicans on Thursday approved a spending bill that excludes new money for election security grants to states, provoking a furious reaction from Democrats amid a national controversy over Russian election interference.

The spending bill passed 217-199. Democrats' bid to add hundreds of millions more in election spending was rejected 182-232 - as Republicans were unmoved by Democrats floor speeches decrying the funding changes and chanting "USA! USA!"

At issue is a grants program overseen by the federal Election Assistance Commission and aimed at helping states administer their elections and improve voting systems; Democrats want to continue grant funding through 2019, while Republicans say the program already has been fully funded." https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...n-13088513.php

However, little noticed this week with Helsinki is that the State Department, which was granted $120M also to help prevent meddling, as spent none of it. Zero. Nada. Zippo.

WASHINGTON — As Russia’s virtual war against the United States continues unabated with the midterm elections approaching, the State Department has yet to spend any of the $120 million it has been allocated since late 2016 to counter foreign efforts to meddle in elections or sow distrust in democracy.

As a result, not one of the 23 analysts working in the department’s Global Engagement Center — which has been tasked with countering Moscow’s disinformation campaign — speaks Russian, and a department hiring freeze has hindered efforts to recruit the computer experts needed to track the Russian efforts

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/w...nt-center.html

Come on Cons, you ok with that? Just because things are in your favor now, you know your heads would explode if suddenly Russian interference started going the other way. Your justifications that "oh well we do it in other countries?" Really? How can you even call yourselves Americans?

[Unregistered]

I’m very ok with that because the majority of Dems & Liberals are decent people with a heart & understanding of a difference for the people of color, disability, gender & religion.
It’s the Democrats that are standing up not like that fat slob Mrs Piggy who lies everyday doing her daily briefing in front of millions of people.

Oh and BTW I keep hearing that the Russian meddling didn’t effect the American vote in 2016.
Well yes it did, why then was the media so saturated with Wiki leaks, pizza gate and a whole range of false narratives because it was to Surpress the vote. There’s plenty of dumb deplorable Fukktarts that were conned into believing there was a child sex ring run by HC in s pizza shop, it got to the point that some poor fukkkkk nearly died.
Where is all those stories now? The intelligence agencies know it’ll start again right after the summer.

See post above - Intel agencies know it and say it's already happening (lots of phising going on to see what they can penetrate in anticipation for November) but Repugs and the government are doing nothing,

[Unregistered]

You started off logical but then you’re inaccuracies and conjecture ruined the credibility of your argument. First, the Russians attempted to get Hilary’s 33,000 emails but there is no evidence that they obtained them. Second, the guilty pleas so far have nothing to do with collusion or Coordination with Russia’s election meddling. Most are completely unrelated. The rest is just conjecture.

Let me throw this hypothetical out there. Say the DCN hack had nothing to do with Russia but perhaps some over zealous conservative teenager from the US. Let’s say his high school competitive liberal friend wanted to one-up him and obtained questions to one of the presidential debates. So one shared DCN emails to Wikileaks and one passed on debate questions to Hilary. Which one do you think would have more of an impact to the outcome of the election?

We do not know if there is evidence or not. But I'm certain Mueller knows and I'm certain that after January 6, 2017, that Trump knew too. How long after that date did Trump publicly call for the Russians to "find" the 33,000 emails? How long after that date did Wikileaks first start pushing out information that appears to be sourced from all this?

As you said, "so far" on the guilty pleas. I'm not one that is big on this whole collusion thing anyways. There's no way they'll prove collusion on Trump's individual part, although a lot of what he is doing publicly now has that smell to me.

All good investigators start with conjecture and then see if the facts lead them there or to something else. I'm content to see the final report from Mueller before I cast final judgement on the President or his inner circle, including little Donnie.

Your comparative analogy fails. Because as the outcome shows, the electoral vote went to Trump's favor. With just less than 80,000 votes difference in the three states that swung the electoral count his way, there is certainly the possibility that voters in these states were swayed by Russian meddling or even by question passing to a debator. We will never know these things at this point, but we have to allow that such a close margin of victory in the total vote count could be due to meddling, simply because it influenced votes. Had the margin of victory been the same in Clinton's favor, the same argument could be made.

Had Trump won those three states by a couple of hundred thousand votes or better, none of this would be under discussion now.

It's a question of legitimacy. But the question looms largest in the mind of Donald Trump and that explains largely why his behavior is as it is now. He desperately wants to believe he is the "legitimate" winner of that election and this whole Russian meddling thing casts doubt on that, in his mind more than anyone else's. His behavior is not that of a man who believes in his core that he "legitimately" won this election. And that's the shame, because if he did, it's the Russians that have caused this dilemma in his mind.

[Unregistered]

Nuke 5-6 Major cities in Russia and that’s all it’ll take the rest of the country is no mans land they'll die for the lack of food and water

Hardly a solution is it, particularly since they can do the same to us?

[Unregistered]

We do not know if there is evidence or not. But I'm certain Mueller knows and I'm certain that after January 6, 2017, that Trump knew too. How long after that date did Trump publicly call for the Russians to "find" the 33,000 emails? How long after that date did Wikileaks first start pushing out information that appears to be sourced from all this?

As you said, "so far" on the guilty pleas. I'm not one that is big on this whole collusion thing anyways. There's no way they'll prove collusion on Trump's individual part, although a lot of what he is doing publicly now has that smell to me.

All good investigators start with conjecture and then see if the facts lead them there or to something else. I'm content to see the final report from Mueller before I cast final judgement on the President or his inner circle, including little Donnie.

Your comparative analogy fails. Because as the outcome shows, the electoral vote went to Trump's favor. With just less than 80,000 votes difference in the three states that swung the electoral count his way, there is certainly the possibility that voters in these states were swayed by Russian meddling or even by question passing to a debator. We will never know these things at this point, but we have to allow that such a close margin of victory in the total vote count could be due to meddling, simply because it influenced votes. Had the margin of victory been the same in Clinton's favor, the same argument could be made.

Had Trump won those three states by a couple of hundred thousand votes or better, none of this would be under discussion now.

It's a question of legitimacy. But the question looms largest in the mind of Donald Trump and that explains largely why his behavior is as it is now. He desperately wants to believe he is the "legitimate" winner of that election and this whole Russian meddling thing casts doubt on that, in his mind more than anyone else's. His behavior is not that of a man who believes in his core that he "legitimately" won this election. And that's the shame, because if he did, it's the Russians that have caused this dilemma in his mind.

Your last paragraph says it all - his fragile ego is why we're still Russian targets and our Democracy is in turmoil. If he vehemently agreed with our Intel about interference and lashed out at Russia (other sanctions, increased isolation etc), it would further undermine his already tenuous election "win." Then, all his actions (meeting with Putin in private, trying to blow up NATO) only raises more suspicions about his relationship wit Putin. Trump may not have knowingly colluded with Russia and proving it may be impossible. But no doubt he's been a useful pawn to Putin. That makes him look foolish. He can't stand looking foolish and will act like a stubborn toddler as a reaction.