2011 Boys Soccer Verbal Commitments

[Unregistered]

I believe if you apply ED, you must withdraw your app at point of submitting, not at acceptance. This alerts the other schools not to spend time on you. Can anyone confirm?

You do not have to withdraw your EA application if you then apply ED to a different school. What happens if you don't get into the college ED now you don't have your back up school? If you get in ED then you withdraw your EA application--of course that's assuming the ED financial package meets your needs. The only way out of ED is due to Financial concerns.

[Unregistered]

A

You really are a flaming jerk. "Moron?" "Primate?" Deductions based on absolutely no data about how I interact with my child. Refined you are not. Nor cogent.

Acknowledging some elitism is a little different than being consumed by it. Are you or are you not elitist? You didn't say. Believe it or not, there are non-DAP kids who want to attend good schools, and they are. And we see that some keep rolling in on this thread....2011s.

I promised I wasn't going to jump into this conversation, but dude......you need to chill out. Re-read the post. No one called you a primate.

[Unregistered]

I promised I wasn't going to jump into this conversation, but dude......you need to chill out. Re-read the post. No one called you a primate.

So you are a neutral evaluator of insults?

No one called me a primate? Just "moron" a few times, and "I've worked with primates that grasp concepts quicker than you"? I think you're parsing words. And I guess you think the guy's rant about my child and my interactions with him were right on target? If you're going to jump in try to at least fake a modicum of fairness.

[Unregistered]

A

You really are a flaming jerk. "Moron?" "Primate?" Deductions based on absolutely no data about how I interact with my child. Refined you are not. Nor cogent.

Acknowledging some elitism is a little different than being consumed by it. Are you or are you not elitist? You didn't say. Believe it or not, there are non-DAP kids who want to attend good schools, and they are. And we see that some keep rolling in on this thread....2011s.

You still don't get it. My position hasn't changed from the beginning: I do believe non DAP kids get to attend good schools. My point all along has been that the opportunities to be seen by MORE coaches from MORE and BETTER schools is increased in DAP. I've never bashed non DAP kids for not playing DAP. I have only ever taken exception to your rants bashing the DAP (through the Bolts) and challenged your opinion that DAP doesn't give kids more exposure than non DAP leagues.

Deductions were based on what you typed. "We email coaches...."? Plus, the anti Bolts rhetoric certainly didn't come from your kid. This is all coming from you.

No, I am not an "elitist". I believe in fairness - equal opportunities for all to reach whatever level works for them. I believe in individuality - that is, people make the decisions that are best for them based on their personal reasons and circumstances. Not hung up on the "prestige" or "name" of certain clubs or schools just to be able to drop their names.

Oh, and the earlier poster was correct: I didn't call you a primate. I simply said I've worked with primates who grasp concepts easier. Clearly your comprehension needs a bit of work, based on that and your inability to read much of the other stuff written.

Good luck to your kid. I hope he goes somewhere that makes him happy, as well as offers the name and prestige you've always sought for him.

[Unregistered]

Mass Bay is calling, pick up the phone to play some more kick ball............

[Unregistered]

So you are a neutral evaluator of insults?

No one called me a primate? Just "moron" a few times, and "I've worked with primates that grasp concepts quicker than you"? I think you're parsing words. And I guess you think the guy's rant about my child and my interactions with him were right on target? If you're going to jump in try to at least fake a modicum of fairness.

Ummmmmm.......did you not just call the person a "flaming jerk"?

[Unregistered]

If you're going to to compare people to primates I hope you will at least stipulate that the primates are DAP-level primates......

[Unregistered]

I believe if you apply ED, you must withdraw your app at point of submitting, not at acceptance. This alerts the other schools not to spend time on you. Can anyone confirm?

You do not have to withdraw until you are accepted. However, there are some schools, like Georgetown, that do not allow you to apply EA if you have an ED application outstanding.

[Unregistered]

You still don't get it. My position hasn't changed from the beginning: I do believe non DAP kids get to attend good schools. My point all along has been that the opportunities to be seen by MORE coaches from MORE and BETTER schools is increased in DAP. I've never bashed non DAP kids for not playing DAP. I have only ever taken exception to your rants bashing the DAP (through the Bolts) and challenged your opinion that DAP doesn't give kids more exposure than non DAP leagues.

Deductions were based on what you typed. "We email coaches...."? Plus, the anti Bolts rhetoric certainly didn't come from your kid. This is all coming from you.

No, I am not an "elitist". I believe in fairness - equal opportunities for all to reach whatever level works for them. I believe in individuality - that is, people make the decisions that are best for them based on their personal reasons and circumstances. Not hung up on the "prestige" or "name" of certain clubs or schools just to be able to drop their names.

Oh, and the earlier poster was correct: I didn't call you a primate. I simply said I've worked with primates who grasp concepts easier. Clearly your comprehension needs a bit of work, based on that and your inability to read much of the other stuff written.

Good luck to your kid. I hope he goes somewhere that makes him happy, as well as offers the name and prestige you've always sought for him.

Let's be clear about a few things....

I NEVER bashed any DAP kids. In fact, I praised them. And to address a challenge you posed a while back....because some of them are good players, and would be with or without DAP, and are outstanding students, those would have had a profile to get accepted where there are going. The resume of the kid going to Williams, sans DAP, would have gotten him in Williams. For the sake of argument, let's say Williams didn't take him without DAP. He still would have gotten into most of the more elite schools all over the country. I assume some are struggling to find college homes because they don't have the profile and are in between D1 and D3 but their academics aren't facilitating D1s they want and they don't meet criteria for the elite D3s...no doubt applicable to some percentage of non-DAP kids (although I'm sure a smaller percentage given the alleged fewer number of D1 non-DAP candidates).

I am better educated than a primate although I may or may not have better comprehension than one. My history would suggest that my comprehension is just fine.

It was a leap to go from "We email," which was written as "We could email" if we were interested in out of area colleges. The point was my kid could draw interest in a Denison or Grinnell without going to DAP venues all over the country. The leaps you made about my involvement or over-involvement in the college process are only your angry projections, as are your fantasies about bitterness and what has transpired in our household to date. Poor form.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I am just a bitter ranter against the Bolts. Given your alleged fairness and fidelity to individualism and all the wonderful qualities you endorsed, what explains your engagement and level of snarkiness in this discussion? What do you care so much about? And are you the same person who has been shocked and offended by kids who turned down "developmental" slots with DAP? Are you the same person who suggested that the MAPLE kids would already have been playing DAP if they were good enough and now some of them are this year? We get that you think DAP is an exceptional, nationwide program, better than an IPad, at least until the next best thing comes along.

Your thing about 2010 and waiting for the Fall makes no sense. I believe extensive 2010 lists were on this forum around this time last year. Sure there were tweaks, and there are still names missing of kids on even the most recent 2010 list, so even now the 2010 list is not "complete" or comprehensive. That said, I am unclear on what exactly you think the 2010 list shows. At any rate, seems ludicrous to say, on a 2011 lists thread, that we can't ask about 2011s. Does it really make you feel better that the Columbus Crew DAP team or some DAP team in Texas is placing kids??? How many 2011 kids really could have gone D1 but are choosing D3, and in those cases, are we talking Duke vs Williams or Middlebury or UMass vs. the latter?

I have agreed that DAP is better. I have said a high percentage of the better players play DAP. What are you upset about? Do you want me to say that the DAP is really, really better?

Other than the 2010 thing, your main point seems to be about the "broader" exposure. I agree that DAP kids will go play places where there are swarms of college coaches. What I question is how much of a difference this makes in the end. Is it a nice feature? I'm sure it is. I don't think it makes the amount of difference you suggest. And as I've explained, broader only helps if you're interested in broader (and at the end of all this please show me the West Coast list for MA kids), and I believe at least D3 out of area schools can be accessed by other means. At some point, we get to the net results, and seems to me the non-DAP kids are doing just fine.

[Unregistered]

Let's be clear about a few things....

I NEVER bashed any DAP kids. In fact, I praised them. And to address a challenge you posed a while back....because some of them are good players, and would be with or without DAP, and are outstanding students, those would have had a profile to get accepted where there are going. The resume of the kid going to Williams, sans DAP, would have gotten him in Williams. For the sake of argument, let's say Williams didn't take him without DAP. He still would have gotten into most of the more elite schools all over the country. I assume some are struggling to find college homes because they don't have the profile and are in between D1 and D3 but their academics aren't facilitating D1s they want and they don't meet criteria for the elite D3s...no doubt applicable to some percentage of non-DAP kids (although I'm sure a smaller percentage given the alleged fewer number of D1 non-DAP candidates).

I am better educated than a primate although I may or may not have better comprehension than one. My history would suggest that my comprehension is just fine.

It was a leap to go from "We email," which was written as "We could email" if we were interested in out of area colleges. The point was my kid could draw interest in a Denison or Grinnell without going to DAP venues all over the country. The leaps you made about my involvement or over-involvement in the college process are only your angry projections, as are your fantasies about bitterness and what has transpired in our household to date. Poor form.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I am just a bitter ranter against the Bolts. Given your alleged fairness and fidelity to individualism and all the wonderful qualities you endorsed, what explains your engagement and level of snarkiness in this discussion? What do you care so much about? And are you the same person who has been shocked and offended by kids who turned down "developmental" slots with DAP? Are you the same person who suggested that the MAPLE kids would already have been playing DAP if they were good enough and now some of them are this year? We get that you think DAP is an exceptional, nationwide program, better than an IPad, at least until the next best thing comes along.

Your thing about 2010 and waiting for the Fall makes no sense. I believe extensive 2010 lists were on this forum around this time last year. Sure there were tweaks, and there are still names missing of kids on even the most recent 2010 list, so even now the 2010 list is not "complete" or comprehensive. That said, I am unclear on what exactly you think the 2010 list shows. At any rate, seems ludicrous to say, on a 2011 lists thread, that we can't ask about 2011s. Does it really make you feel better that the Columbus Crew DAP team or some DAP team in Texas is placing kids??? How many 2011 kids really could have gone D1 but are choosing D3, and in those cases, are we talking Duke vs Williams or Middlebury or UMass vs. the latter?

I have agreed that DAP is better. I have said a high percentage of the better players play DAP. What are you upset about? Do you want me to say that the DAP is really, really better?

Other than the 2010 thing, your main point seems to be about the "broader" exposure. I agree that DAP kids will go play places where there are swarms of college coaches. What I question is how much of a difference this makes in the end. Is it a nice feature? I'm sure it is. I don't think it makes the amount of difference you suggest. And as I've explained, broader only helps if you're interested in broader (and at the end of all this please show me the West Coast list for MA kids), and I believe at least D3 out of area schools can be accessed by other means. At some point, we get to the net results, and seems to me the non-DAP kids are doing just fine.

I can see why some people might get frustrated arguing with this guy. His arguments are a constantly changing moving target.

I've yet to see a credible answer to why a very good player who wants to play at the highest level, with and against other very good players in the highest level training environment and league, with the best referees, and in front of more college coaches than anywhere else wouldn't want to play in DAP.

Cost? Revs are free, and both the non MLS clubs and US Soccer make scholarships available.

Focus on education? Perhaps, but DAP teams all over the country (and here in MA) have kids who are enrolled at some of the most academically rigorous private and public schools there are. We know that the DAP coaches stress the importance of academics, and build mandatory study time in the travel schedules for tournaments.

Distance? Could be a real factor, but looking at the hometowns of the DAP rosters, there are kids travelling great distances to participate.

Getting into colleges these days requires more than good grades. The pool of applicants into a NESCAC or any other good school has thousands of kids with impressive transcripts. Ho Hum. What sets one kid apart from another? In some cases, it's community service, or business experience, art or science projects, leadership roles, etc. In other cases, it's sports. The kid who plays soccer at the highest level, who was seen on a number of occasions by the coach, and who has that coach pulling for him in admissions has an clear advantage over the kid that wasn't seen by the coach in the same way, or was playing at a lower level where the coach feels like the DAP kid may be able to step in sooner at that level. College coaches get emails and calls from hundreds of kids. What sets yours apart in his mind? There is no quantifiable way to measure DAP's placement on college admittance over non DAP. Apart from the benefits of the better training and playing, I would say that if I'm going fishing, I go to the part of the lake that has the most fish, giving me the better chance of catching one.

[Unregistered]

how about the DAP kids not playing soccer, at a community college, D2 or D3 programs. Not all play D1 nor will they

[Unregistered]

You do not have to withdraw until you are accepted. However, there are some schools, like Georgetown, that do not allow you to apply EA if you have an ED application outstanding.

And how would Georgetown know if you had done an EA at another school? Why would you cut off an avenue to perhaps your 2nd choice?

[Unregistered]

I can see why some people might get frustrated arguing with this guy. His arguments are a constantly changing moving target.

I've yet to see a credible answer to why a very good player who wants to play at the highest level, with and against other very good players in the highest level training environment and league, with the best referees, and in front of more college coaches than anywhere else wouldn't want to play in DAP.

Cost? Revs are free, and both the non MLS clubs and US Soccer make scholarships available.

Focus on education? Perhaps, but DAP teams all over the country (and here in MA) have kids who are enrolled at some of the most academically rigorous private and public schools there are. We know that the DAP coaches stress the importance of academics, and build mandatory study time in the travel schedules for tournaments.

Distance? Could be a real factor, but looking at the hometowns of the DAP rosters, there are kids travelling great distances to participate.

Getting into colleges these days requires more than good grades. The pool of applicants into a NESCAC or any other good school has thousands of kids with impressive transcripts. Ho Hum. What sets one kid apart from another? In some cases, it's community service, or business experience, art or science projects, leadership roles, etc. In other cases, it's sports. The kid who plays soccer at the highest level, who was seen on a number of occasions by the coach, and who has that coach pulling for him in admissions has an clear advantage over the kid that wasn't seen by the coach in the same way, or was playing at a lower level where the coach feels like the DAP kid may be able to step in sooner at that level. College coaches get emails and calls from hundreds of kids. What sets yours apart in his mind? There is no quantifiable way to measure DAP's placement on college admittance over non DAP. Apart from the benefits of the better training and playing, I would say that if I'm going fishing, I go to the part of the lake that has the most fish, giving me the better chance of catching one.

New poster here. There have been many credible answers why some very good players do not want to or cannot play DAP and they have been repeatedly listed on this blog. Unfortunately, as potentially attractice as DAP is it is not for everyone. I can only answer from our player/family perspective. First let me say that our player has been recruited to play every year by both Mass DAP teams since their inception--however he and we have chosen not to. Distance is issue #1 for us--to either Revs or Bolts with both being about 1.5 hour commute--we as a family are unwilling to make such a commitment of spending 3 hours in a car 3 to 4 times a week just to get to soccer practice thereby dramatically taking away from his homework/study time. His current Club practices are 10 minutes from home--huge time savings (not to mention gas $$ savings). Cost is issue #2--if we were much closer I am sure he would have joined the Revs due to their non-cost, but Bolts are at least 6x times more costlier than his current Club and this includes paying for 3 local/non overnight tournaments. Issue #3 when the college search began he was only interested in attending a smaller college, thus no sense looking at D1 schools (all larger than 2000 to 3000 students)--which is where I believe DAP has a decided advantage for exposure to the D1 college coaches outside of New England. He also has no desire to go to college outside of New England. His recruitment from college coaches has not been impeded by his non-DAP status both in New England and outside of New England (although he told the non-NE colleges he had no interest in going outside of NE). Most important in the recruitment process has been playing well when the college coaches got a chance to watch in person--to be an impact player. Not one coach has asked him why he wasn't playing DAP--yet they continued to recruit him. Would my son, if distance was not such a huge factor, probably joined DAP--there is a very good chance he would have joined the Revs given its "Free Status" because he certainly would enjoy the chance to compete at the highest levels (no question DAP is the highest level in boys soccer), however I am not sure he would be any different today as a soccer player because he has had a tremendous Club coach and very good players on his Club team, and given his path to college (not looking for D1) I don't believe his college opportunities would be any different than they are now and he is quite happy with his college alternatives. You can point to some families who make this huge distance commute to play DAP, however for our player and family such a commute would sacrifice his school work and in our household school always comes first.

[dd2]

And how would Georgetown know if you had done an EA at another school? Why would you cut off an avenue to perhaps your 2nd choice?

I think it is risky to play games with the rules concerning early action and early decision college applications. A college requiring exclusive early application (whether ED or non-binding EA) may take adverse action against someone breaks the rules. This could include revoking an offer of admission or even expelling an enrolled student from school.

Colleges have strong incentives to act against those who break application rules. If it becomes known that there is no cost to breaking the rules, then everyone will break them. I have not heard of colleges actually revoking acceptances for breaking admissions rules (perhaps because very few people break them), but I have heard admissions representatives say that they would revoke acceptances if they found out.

If I were an admissions director, I would revoke the acceptance of any student that broke admissions rules like this, whether they were my school's rules or another school's. I'd do it for 2 reasons. First, I would consider this rule-breaking an act of basic dishonesty that disqualifies the student for admission. Second, I would expect other schools to do likewise.

Now, maybe none of this is a concern if an applicant is a big-time athletic recruit. When it comes to sports, especially football and basketball, all bets are off. Most kids, however, won't get such special treatment. For them, following the rules is a good idea because losing an acceptance after deposit deadlines or the start of a school year could mean a lost year from college or enrolling in a vastly different institution.

[Unregistered]

New poster here. There have been many credible answers why some very good players do not want to or cannot play DAP and they have been repeatedly listed on this blog. Unfortunately, as potentially attractice as DAP is it is not for everyone. I can only answer from our player/family perspective. First let me say that our player has been recruited to play every year by both Mass DAP teams since their inception--however he and we have chosen not to. Distance is issue #1 for us--to either Revs or Bolts with both being about 1.5 hour commute--we as a family are unwilling to make such a commitment of spending 3 hours in a car 3 to 4 times a week just to get to soccer practice thereby dramatically taking away from his homework/study time. His current Club practices are 10 minutes from home--huge time savings (not to mention gas $$ savings). Cost is issue #2--if we were much closer I am sure he would have joined the Revs due to their non-cost, but Bolts are at least 6x times more costlier than his current Club and this includes paying for 3 local/non overnight tournaments. Issue #3 when the college search began he was only interested in attending a smaller college, thus no sense looking at D1 schools (all larger than 2000 to 3000 students)--which is where I believe DAP has a decided advantage for exposure to the D1 college coaches outside of New England. He also has no desire to go to college outside of New England. His recruitment from college coaches has not been impeded by his non-DAP status both in New England and outside of New England (although he told the non-NE colleges he had no interest in going outside of NE). Most important in the recruitment process has been playing well when the college coaches got a chance to watch in person--to be an impact player. Not one coach has asked him why he wasn't playing DAP--yet they continued to recruit him. Would my son, if distance was not such a huge factor, probably joined DAP--there is a very good chance he would have joined the Revs given its "Free Status" because he certainly would enjoy the chance to compete at the highest levels (no question DAP is the highest level in boys soccer), however I am not sure he would be any different today as a soccer player because he has had a tremendous Club coach and very good players on his Club team, and given his path to college (not looking for D1) I don't believe his college opportunities would be any different than they are now and he is quite happy with his college alternatives. You can point to some families who make this huge distance commute to play DAP, however for our player and family such a commute would sacrifice his school work and in our household school always comes first.

I don't have anything to say, but if you could hear me, I am clapping my hands.