Improving officiating

[Unregistered]

Wrong

Not true at all. The poster was saying that yelling at the officials is not a solution to poor officiating. That is a behavior, which shows a lack of discipline and self control. Yelling will not help the ref do a better job during the game. Feedback AFTER the game will. Not directly to the ref, but through the league.

During the game, players, parents, coaches, should remain focused on the game and not the "bad calls."

WRONG. I'm the poster and I was saying that by IMPROVING the training of the officials and paying them MORE we will get fewer bad calls and fewer bad calls lead to fewer opportunities to yell justifiable disapproval. Not advocating for yelling just calling it the way I see it!

Yeah there are always going to be unreasonable spectators who want to argue judgment calls but reducing that is for another thread. What the disagreement was over was if there was a NEED for an improvement program. I was citing examples of NEED not reasons to yell!

[Unregistered]

Uh yes they were.... go to page 8

Poor you... you were pushed over the edge. YELL YELL YELL!!!! That is the solution.

No one is debating the quality of officials needs to improve. No doubt. However, people, especially people like you, need to learn how to behave and control yourselves. People like you only make situations worse. People like you are the greatest problem for children's sports.

All sports suffer from poor officiating. Ever watch youth basketball? Sheesh!

You can either focus on them, or you can focus on the game. You can teach your kids to focus on the bad calls, or teach them to focus on how they play.

Well actually the poster was saying that missing corner flags or poorly painted lines were MORE important so "somebody" WAS debating the need to improve the quality of officiating.

Why does everybody assume that I think this proposal to improve just one aspect of soccer is a cure all? I never said that and I don't think that. It is however one aspect that we can fix very quickly for very little individual cost.

Other things like field development take years and millions of dollars. Similarly recruiting and training better coaches takes time and a whole lot more money.

This proposal is a small step forward and one that we can take now!

[Unregistered]

Sorry trying to make things better is a bad thing ...for you

Poor you... you were pushed over the edge. YELL YELL YELL!!!! That is the solution.

No one is debating the quality of officials needs to improve. No doubt. However, people, especially people like you, need to learn how to behave and control yourselves. People like you only make situations worse. People like you are the greatest problem for children's sports.

All sports suffer from poor officiating. Ever watch youth basketball? Sheesh!

You can either focus on them, or you can focus on the game. You can teach your kids to focus on the bad calls, or teach them to focus on how they play.

Yeah the guy who proposes a SOLUTION is the one out of control making things worse....good logic.

I could alternatively say that people like you, who I don't know from Adam, who are willing to stand by and let soccer devolve into fights on the sidelines because you are too lazy, scared or whatever to make improvements is the one ruining youth sports.

At least that would have some LOGIC to it!

Shoot the messenger all you want but the Leagues know this is a problem, the Referee Association knows it's a problem yet neither is taking adequate steps to correct the problem. At least this "out of control" parent is trying to come up with a solution.

[Unregistered]

Yeah the guy who proposes a SOLUTION is the one out of control making things worse....good logic.

I could alternatively say that people like you, who I don't know from Adam, who are willing to stand by and let soccer devolve into fights on the sidelines because you are too lazy, scared or whatever to make improvements is the one ruining youth sports.

At least that would have some LOGIC to it!

Shoot the messenger all you want but the Leagues know this is a problem, the Referee Association knows it's a problem yet neither is taking adequate steps to correct the problem. At least this "out of control" parent is trying to come up with a solution.

The point is, no matter how bad the officiating is, fights on the sidelines are never acceptable. Yelling at the ref, the way some parents do, is never acceptable. Never.

Disgusting people are the problem.

Of course, continue to improve the quality of officiating. Unfortunately, because you savages can't control yourselves, you yell, scream, and insult these refs. What do you think happens? They quit. They don't have to take your crap. Then what happens? You get another round of less experienced refs.

Is that what you want? Throwing more money at these refs will not make them more accepting of your pathetic behavior.

Self control will go a long way in improving the quality of officiating.

[Unregistered]

Which comes first the chicken or the egg?

The point is, no matter how bad the officiating is, fights on the sidelines are never acceptable. Yelling at the ref, the way some parents do, is never acceptable. Never.

Disgusting people are the problem.

Of course, continue to improve the quality of officiating. Unfortunately, because you savages can't control yourselves, you yell, scream, and insult these refs. What do you think happens? They quit. They don't have to take your crap. Then what happens? You get another round of less experienced refs.

Is that what you want? Throwing more money at these refs will not make them more accepting of your pathetic behavior.

Self control will go a long way in improving the quality of officiating.

So do you think the savages could be calmed with better officiating?

And why do you assume that the guy proposing the improvement plan is a savage or are you a ref responding in a generic manner to us parnets?

[Unregistered]

You'd be surprise what more money could do.

The point is, no matter how bad the officiating is, fights on the sidelines are never acceptable. Yelling at the ref, the way some parents do, is never acceptable. Never.

Disgusting people are the problem.

Of course, continue to improve the quality of officiating. Unfortunately, because you savages can't control yourselves, you yell, scream, and insult these refs. What do you think happens? They quit. They don't have to take your crap. Then what happens? You get another round of less experienced refs.

Is that what you want? Throwing more money at these refs will not make them more accepting of your pathetic behavior.

Self control will go a long way in improving the quality of officiating.

I think you would be very surprised at the type of person more money would attract. It would not change the thickness of the skin of very many of the current crop but it would attract more mature individuals who have the ability to handle the "savages" with aplomb!
How do I know? Because that what is going on in other sports at the highest levels.

[Unregistered]

So do you think the savages could be calmed with better officiating?

And why do you assume that the guy proposing the improvement plan is a savage or are you a ref responding in a generic manner to us parnets?

No. I don't think these people will be calmed with better officiating. They will still find fault in the calls. You will find errors EVERY in game. Even the best refs make mistakes. As a parent, how will you respond when this happens? Yell? Act like an idiot? Teach your child that type of behavior is acceptable when you feel wronged? Fantastic parenting...

You savages are the people who lack basic self control when watching your child play. Who yell and scream at the refs. Shut your mouths and watch the game.

It is absolutely incredible how ignorant you people are.

Here is a question - have you EVER seen a ref say, "you know what? I did make a mistake. I apologize," then change his call? No, and you will never see it. Yell all you want, you only make the situation worse.

Get it? You should focus on your behavior and self control. The refs should focus on their development and improving.

[Unregistered]

I think you would be very surprised at the type of person more money would attract. It would not change the thickness of the skin of very many of the current crop but it would attract more mature individuals who have the ability to handle the "savages" with aplomb!
How do I know? Because that what is going on in other sports at the highest levels.

The problem is, this is youth soccer. The higher quality refs are busy with College and adult games, and professional (not many of these refs). That is the "highest levels" by the way.

[Unregistered]

No. I don't think these people will be calmed with better officiating. They will still find fault in the calls. You will find errors EVERY in game. Even the best refs make mistakes. As a parent, how will you respond when this happens? Yell? Act like an idiot? Teach your child that type of behavior is acceptable when you feel wronged? Fantastic parenting...

You savages are the people who lack basic self control when watching your child play. Who yell and scream at the refs. Shut your mouths and watch the game.

It is absolutely incredible how ignorant you people are.

Here is a question - have you EVER seen a ref say, "you know what? I did make a mistake. I apologize," then change his call? No, and you will never see it. Yell all you want, you only make the situation worse.

Get it? You should focus on your behavior and self control. The refs should focus on their development and improving.

Having been a 6A official I can tell you that the goods one DO admit when they blow a call. You are correct they rarely take it back but the ones who have received the type of training proposed have the poise and composure to communicate their fallibility. You would be amazed at how far that goes to diffusing the tension and reducing the yelling. The aggrieved fan/player/coach usually only need an apology to feel content!

I have sat on the sidelines watching Premier level soccer for 6 years now I and can tell you with 100% certainty that regardless of age the officials who were seen as trying to do a good job and communicating with the players, coaches and yes the spectators had the fewest problems with those parties AND made the fewest mistakes.

Lastly, it's a numbers game when it comes to behavior. In each game there are three officials but in the stands there are 60+ interested parties. Expecting all 60 to behave like they are at a golf tournament is unrealistic given the fan culture that permeates American sports and international soccer.

What you CAN control is the catalyst of their angst and that is the quality of the officiating. Can you zero it out the mistakes? Of course not! But better administered matches lead to two things you have advocated here. One there is less yelling and two the fans become educated on the proper application of the rules. So ya see better officiating leads to better fan behavior AND knowledge!

[Unregistered]

Exactly why the pool needs to be expanded

The problem is, this is youth soccer. The higher quality refs are busy with College and adult games, and professional (not many of these refs). That is the "highest levels" by the way.

And that is exactly why this proposal is needed. The pool of "good" refs needs to be expanded and one way to do that is to offer enough money to retain the ones with interest and potential by competing with other employment opportunities AND to offer enough money to make the occasional taunt from the sidelines worth it for the ones beginning their career so they stick around long enough to get trained to become a good ref.

[Unregistered]

Premier Level Only

The problem is, this is youth soccer. The higher quality refs are busy with College and adult games, and professional (not many of these refs). That is the "highest levels" by the way.

This program was proposed for referee's wanting to work Premier level games not rec or Div 1.

[Unregistered]

Hit a nerve?

No. I don't think these people will be calmed with better officiating. They will still find fault in the calls. You will find errors EVERY in game. Even the best refs make mistakes. As a parent, how will you respond when this happens? Yell? Act like an idiot? Teach your child that type of behavior is acceptable when you feel wronged? Fantastic parenting...

You savages are the people who lack basic self control when watching your child play. Who yell and scream at the refs. Shut your mouths and watch the game.

It is absolutely incredible how ignorant you people are.

Here is a question - have you EVER seen a ref say, "you know what? I did make a mistake. I apologize," then change his call? No, and you will never see it. Yell all you want, you only make the situation worse.

Get it? You should focus on your behavior and self control. The refs should focus on their development and improving.

Sounds like you are a ref who has been getting an earful to call all of us posters here, including the guy wants to pay you more and offer you free training, ignorant.

From what I have read on all 12 pages is that there is nobody advocating or excusing abusive behavior toward the refs. What there is is a debate about the need to do anything about the quality of officiating and if money is the answer.

I'm amazed that there is at least one person that thinks no improvement is needed.

I also have not seen anyone disagree that self control is not important so I'm not sure what your point was other than to complain about an agreed upon problem.

[Unregistered]

How many mistakes should be tollerated?

No. I don't think these people will be calmed with better officiating. They will still find fault in the calls. You will find errors EVERY in game. Even the best refs make mistakes. As a parent, how will you respond when this happens? Yell? Act like an idiot? Teach your child that type of behavior is acceptable when you feel wronged? Fantastic parenting...

You savages are the people who lack basic self control when watching your child play. Who yell and scream at the refs. Shut your mouths and watch the game.

It is absolutely incredible how ignorant you people are.

Here is a question - have you EVER seen a ref say, "you know what? I did make a mistake. I apologize," then change his call? No, and you will never see it. Yell all you want, you only make the situation worse.

Get it? You should focus on your behavior and self control. The refs should focus on their development and improving.

A question from the ignorotti: How many mistakes should players, coaches and parents endure before verbally expressing their frustration 3, 5, 10, 20?

In my experience a referee can make 3 mistakes a half before the fans get the idea that he/she does not know what the hell they are doing. After that he/she is going to get a little help with their confusion.

Does that make us savages as one poster put it? I think that makes us human. Should that frustration allow us to be mean or nasty? Of course not but to expect people sit quietly by in those situations is just unrealistic.

I support anything that will educate the refs and make the game less about their mistakes and more about our kid’s performance so IMO this idea should be taken seriously by OPL!

[Unregistered]

A question from the ignorotti: How many mistakes should players, coaches and parents endure before verbally expressing their frustration 3, 5, 10, 20?

In my experience a referee can make 3 mistakes a half before the fans get the idea that he/she does not know what the hell they are doing. After that he/she is going to get a little help with their confusion.

Does that make us savages as one poster put it? I think that makes us human. Should that frustration allow us to be mean or nasty? Of course not but to expect people sit quietly by in those situations is just unrealistic.

I support anything that will educate the refs and make the game less about their mistakes and more about our kid’s performance so IMO this idea should be taken seriously by OPL!

I agree with your last paragraph.

Yelling and screaming at the ref has no upside. It upsets the ref - you can assure yourself that lower quality refs will make more calls against you the more you yell at them. It upsets the kids playing, takes their heads out of the game and they focus more on the ref. It excites other parents. It is a downward spiral.

Everyone should also take into account there are two sides to every call. One side will disagree in most circumstances.

It simply comes down to decency and behavior.

[Unregistered]

Can you say anything?

I agree with your last paragraph.

Yelling and screaming at the ref has no upside. It upsets the ref - you can assure yourself that lower quality refs will make more calls against you the more you yell at them. It upsets the kids playing, takes their heads out of the game and they focus more on the ref. It excites other parents. It is a downward spiral.

Everyone should also take into account there are two sides to every call. One side will disagree in most circumstances.

It simply comes down to decency and behavior.

I agree profanities and persoanl attacks are off limts but are all comments the same?

Rate the following as acceptable or unacceptable:

Come on make a call

Hand ball

Someone 's gonna get hurt if you don't start blowing that whistle.

You can do better.

Off sides

Open your eyes.

At the time of the kick

Don't stop the game when they (fouled tam) retain possession

In the Box

Corner (vs) Goal Kick

Foul

Or is any and all comments directed toward the officials off limits?