Div II High School

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Unfortunately person bashing MB as choke artists is an MB parent whose kid doesnt play so he's bitter.

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I have had 2 kids at MB (1 graduated) both play multiple various sports and have never experienced a "team trip."

Pooling kids from various towns is called cherry picking, no matter how you slice it. It is not a sleight against any individual child, but to think you can compare them to public schools is foolish. They may not be the highest caliber of a Hendrickson or Lasalle, but they certainly have an advantage over public schools.

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Pooling kids from various towns is called cherry picking, no matter how you slice it. It is not a sleight against any individual child, but to think you can compare them to public schools is foolish. They may not be the highest caliber of a Hendrickson or Lasalle, but they certainly have an advantage over public schools.

Umm, it's not called "cherry picking" when you are school (like all independent schools) that is set up to enroll kids from all over the state - that's called a private/Independent school.

It would be cherry picking if you could actually recruit. If you look at the size of of MB
compared to larger publics that are in Div 2 - it makes sense that MB would not be top of the
division every year - and also makes sense that not all sports are top at MB. If you look at LA Salle with a school size more in line with larger public, it completely makes sense how they'd dominate in multiple sports.

If independent/private schools dominated every sport in the state, I'd agree they should find another league - but that's not the case - teams are up and down.

You could easily argue that larger schools in lower divisions have advantage. RIILs job is to ensure the divisions are balanced by performance. If you look at girls soccer Div 2 there are a good number of teams with close games - so I think the league is pretty "Fair" and truly its anyone's game to win or loose for State Title.

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Not sure why you are saying NS chokes when 4 out of the last 5 years they were the lower seed losing to a higher seed.
2014-2016 they were the 6th seed and lost to the 3rd.
2017 they were the 2nd and lost to the 7th.
2018 they were the 8th seed, beat the 9th in the first round and then lost to 1st seed Pilgrim who we all know should be in D1.

How is the lower seed losing choking?

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Umm, it's not called "cherry picking" when you are school (like all independent schools) that is set up to enroll kids from all over the state - that's called a private/Independent school.

It would be cherry picking if you could actually recruit. If you look at the size of of MB
compared to larger publics that are in Div 2 - it makes sense that MB would not be top of the
division every year - and also makes sense that not all sports are top at MB. If you look at LA Salle with a school size more in line with larger public, it completely makes sense how they'd dominate in multiple sports.

If independent/private schools dominated every sport in the state, I'd agree they should find another league - but that's not the case - teams are up and down.

You could easily argue that larger schools in lower divisions have advantage. RIILs job is to ensure the divisions are balanced by performance. If you look at girls soccer Div 2 there are a good number of teams with close games - so I think the league is pretty "Fair" and truly its anyone's game to win or loose for State Title.

You are either pitifully naïve or flat out stupid to think that first, selectively choosing schools is not an advantage over publics who are forced to play with what they have, and second, to pretend that recruiting does not happen at MB.

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You are either pitifully naïve or flat out stupid to think that first, selectively choosing schools is not an advantage over publics who are forced to play with what they have, and second, to pretend that recruiting does not happen at MB.

Recruiting definitely happens at MB. They tend to focus more on their better programs like field hockey, lacrosse and tennis. LaSalle tends to pull most of the better soccer players. Bayview gets some others, but they ALL recruit.

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Recruiting definitely happens at MB. They tend to focus more on their better programs like field hockey, lacrosse and tennis. LaSalle tends to pull most of the better soccer players. Bayview gets some others, but they ALL recruit.

Yep..and then you have the hidden advantages -

(1) a paid staff to do fund raising compared to the haphazard PTO or "athletic supporters" some public schools have;
(2) an ability to wedge pay to play into "tuition" or other fees not called athletic and no public oversight to monitor that (which is fine as a private school but when you want to play in a league that has a no pay to play state law);
(3) no oversight on things like the "summer camp" that is really a two week jump on the season (LSA);
(4) no real enforcement or monitoring on "tuition scholarships" (again, a practice that is no business of the public except when the privates want to play in a league that bans athletic inducements)

and add over representation based on population % on the PCOA (not to mention the director's connection)

Also for the "expensive" independents, there is the natural connection that those students come from households with more income and thus more opportunities for youth development, especially in sports that cost more at the youth level. Same point as academics - no surprise highest rated HS SAT/PSAT scores come from HS with highest community wealth (and before you say Classical, there is an entrance exam so you are cherrypicking the smartest kids from the lower income households).

Finally, dominate..well let's see

Football - you had to make a special prize for the publics in D1 because it's always BH or LSA.

but since this is a girls soccer thread..

D1 Soccer - It's essentially LSA unless you have the once in a decade player and/or the PK decider

D1 Basketball - Private has won 9 of the 10 last state championships

D1 Field Hockey - Private has 4, and the rest are the closes communities by wealth (Barrington, EG) to a private - and while NK maybe less wealthy, they get I believe Jamestown kids at the HS level

D1 Tennis - Private has won 14 of the last 15

D1 XC - Private 8 of the last 12

D1 Volleyball Private 4 of the last 12 (although not the last 8 so maybe there's one sport)..

D1 Swimming - 5 of the last 12 (and add Barrington so private / Barr 10 of the last 12)

D1 softball - last 2 (see if it's a trend)

D1 lax - since it's inception, 16 of the 17 are either Moses Brown or Barrington

D1 golf (coed) - Privates have last 6 state team titles..

a bit disproportionate one would say...

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Yep..and then you have the hidden advantages -

(1) a paid staff to do fund raising compared to the haphazard PTO or "athletic supporters" some public schools have;
(2) an ability to wedge pay to play into "tuition" or other fees not called athletic and no public oversight to monitor that (which is fine as a private school but when you want to play in a league that has a no pay to play state law);
(3) no oversight on things like the "summer camp" that is really a two week jump on the season (LSA);
(4) no real enforcement or monitoring on "tuition scholarships" (again, a practice that is no business of the public except when the privates want to play in a league that bans athletic inducements)

and add over representation based on population % on the PCOA (not to mention the director's connection)

Also for the "expensive" independents, there is the natural connection that those students come from households with more income and thus more opportunities for youth development, especially in sports that cost more at the youth level. Same point as academics - no surprise highest rated HS SAT/PSAT scores come from HS with highest community wealth (and before you say Classical, there is an entrance exam so you are cherrypicking the smartest kids from the lower income households).

Finally, dominate..well let's see

Football - you had to make a special prize for the publics in D1 because it's always BH or LSA.

but since this is a girls soccer thread..

D1 Soccer - It's essentially LSA unless you have the once in a decade player and/or the PK decider

D1 Basketball - Private has won 9 of the 10 last state championships

D1 Field Hockey - Private has 4, and the rest are the closes communities by wealth (Barrington, EG) to a private - and while NK maybe less wealthy, they get I believe Jamestown kids at the HS level

D1 Tennis - Private has won 14 of the last 15

D1 XC - Private 8 of the last 12

D1 Volleyball Private 4 of the last 12 (although not the last 8 so maybe there's one sport)..

D1 Swimming - 5 of the last 12 (and add Barrington so private / Barr 10 of the last 12)

D1 softball - last 2 (see if it's a trend)

D1 lax - since it's inception, 16 of the 17 are either Moses Brown or Barrington

D1 golf (coed) - Privates have last 6 state team titles..

a bit disproportionate one would say...

What a great post, and thanks for supporting my original post!!!!! Nobody blames the kids at all for taking advantage of opportunities given, but at the same time the whiny parents from MB that are on here must also accept that they are on an uneven field, ESPECIALLY IN D2!!!!

Just look at the Red Sox...if they had a low payroll nobody would judge as harshly, but when they have all the advantages you are going to be criticized when you don't deliver.

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What a great post, and thanks for supporting my original post!!!!! Nobody blames the kids at all for taking advantage of opportunities given, but at the same time the whiny parents from MB that are on here must also accept that they are on an uneven field, ESPECIALLY IN D2!!!!

Just look at the Red Sox...if they had a low payroll nobody would judge as harshly, but when they have all the advantages you are going to be criticized when you don't deliver.

Are you seriously categorizing publics as privates due to wealth of a community? (that makes no sense)

The point is - if you look at D2 girls soccer it's pretty balanced. So you are saying a school like MB with 700+ kids should always beat a school like EP with twice as many kids? Simply because its a private school?

Much larger schools in D2 have a competitive advantage - just I guess, as you would say a school like MB could have an advantage - when they play each other and win or loose by a point, your argument makes no sense. Divisions are balanced by performance. A smaller HS like MB could never have a top team in every sport, that is unless they "recruited." MB is not a school focused on athletics.

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Are you seriously categorizing publics as privates due to wealth of a community? (that makes no sense)

The point is - if you look at D2 girls soccer it's pretty balanced. So you are saying a school like MB with 700+ kids should always beat a school like EP with twice as many kids? Simply because its a private school?

Much larger schools in D2 have a competitive advantage - just I guess, as you would say a school like MB could have an advantage - when they play each other and win or loose by a point, your argument makes no sense. Divisions are balanced by performance. A smaller HS like MB could never have a top team in every sport, that is unless they "recruited." MB is not a school focused on athletics.

So this is what it feels like to talk to a wall....

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So this is what it feels like to talk to a wall....

Well, if you are the wall, yes.

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So this is what it feels like to talk to a wall....

Differentiate what a competitive advantage is based on the sport. One advantage that of course privates have is drawing (potentially) from 39 towns plus MA and CT - versus one town (maybe two/three for regional or like NK that gets Jamestown).

For small team/individual sports (tennis, golf, swimming), wealth of the community and/or households (privates) makes a difference way over "numbers" - just check out the championship results.

For higher cost/"niche" sports (field hockey, lacrosse (although that is becoming more prevalent), and hockey) - wealth again tends to triumph over numbers. Volleyball is a bit of community emphasis I think (or access to the club system). When you get below D1, these tend to go more to numbers.

For more common sports (basketball, soccer, baseball, softball) - there is definitely an advantage to having both the ability to recruit - as well as winning having its own quality in helping recruit. There is also the ability among wealthier communities to do more higher quality club programs. At D2, you can get a cohort that stays in the community and helps a very small school (EWG a few years for example)..

Football is a numbers game, but a few star players can swing a team but that is why you traditionally have BH (largest hs male enrollment) and LSA (one of the highest and definitely the worst reputation for recruiting).

Just look at the roll of who has won state championships the last 10-15 years.

I do think that given the advantage privates have, they should either be only placed in D1 if in RIIL - they have NEPSAC or other options that publics don't have.

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Are you seriously categorizing publics as privates due to wealth of a community? (that makes no sense)

The point is - if you look at D2 girls soccer it's pretty balanced. So you are saying a school like MB with 700+ kids should always beat a school like EP with twice as many kids? Simply because its a private school?

Much larger schools in D2 have a competitive advantage - just I guess, as you would say a school like MB could have an advantage - when they play each other and win or loose by a point, your argument makes no sense. Divisions are balanced by performance. A smaller HS like MB could never have a top team in every sport, that is unless they "recruited." MB is not a school focused on athletics.

MB doesn't have 700+ kids. It has around 400 total in the High School.

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MB doesn't have 700+ kids. It has around 400 total in the High School.

Guys, let’s face it, we are dealing with a spoiled moron. Anybody who actually argues that private schools do not have an advantage is obviously clueless. No level of facts or rational discussion will convince them.

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Guys, let’s face it, we are dealing with a spoiled moron. Anybody who actually argues that private schools do not have an advantage is obviously clueless. No level of facts or rational discussion will convince them.

Agreed. There is an obvious (to most adults) socioeconomic advantage at play, with those attending private schools having higher levels of drive, discipline, resources and rates of participation.

Again, nothing wrong with the kids or the parents for choosing them, but to think it is not a HUGE advantage is just being stubborn and defensive.