The unethical business of youth soccer

[Unregistered]

No, I think they are saying that you don't do this kind of thing MID-SEASON. Commit to develop the players that you selected to pay you at the start of the season, and if they don't progress as you thought, then don't invite them back the next year. And ok, there are special circumstances, like a great player moves to the area and is looking for a club to join; sure, make that exception. But recruiting players mid-season to take spots/playing time from the players you selected a few months earlier is not right.

And yes, parents take some of the blame.

This is exactly what the OP is talking about, but apparently the person you quoted didn't read the post fully. Kids come for a tryout or a practice and you set a roster for August-July. There will always be exceptional circumstances, but this should be the basic premise. Kids of course should play and start based on merit (this isn't rec for a reason), but they shouldn't be worried that the family the coach is chatting up after a game is going to all of a sudden transfer over and take a spot. Coaches should develop their roster for that year instead of relying on others to do their job.

If you scoff at that basic premise, then I don't want to live in your world. I'm not saying everyone needs a trophy (ridiculous), everyone needs equal playing time (see comment above about rec), no juiceboxs/cupcakes, etc. I'm saying that kids make a roster for a reason and parents pay a fee for a certain product. The kid should have the opportunity to learn and develop without outside influences (created by the coach).

There will always be parents that complain and shuffle between clubs because their kid isn't getting what they think they deserve, but the 90%+ of everyone else isn't doing that.

[Unregistered]

Seems like someone is hitting the crack pipe a little early in the am. You really need to stay of forums with your nonsense. I'm a youth coach, with an 09 and 10 team. I take pride in developing my kids. I picked the roster and intend to work with what I have. A constant rotation of players doesn't do my kids any good. In fact, at this age, it might turn some off them off to soccer in the future. At this age it should all be about development, not winning every silly game from here to California. I do agree, as the kids get older, you are not guaranteed a position on a roster, and when playing college showcases you want you best performing players on the field. Not at 11 years old. I read these forums about people complaining about the constant rotation of players during a season. It makes me laugh at the narrow minded ADULTS that think people are posting about this because their child was moved off the "A" team. You need to get a grip on life. This is a major problem with clubs. Coaches want the easy win, the easy job, and that means recruiting players already developed by a coach that actually cares about their players. At 11 years old, it's our job to develope and build future players, not push them aside for the shiny new penny because that might take a little more effort and dedication on the coaches part. I had a kid last year that wasn't at the level of the other kids. Rather them push them off, I found time to work with that child, away from the group. (And didn't ask for a penny to do it.) Why? Because I saw something in the kid and wanted to work with them. And guess what, that kid DID improve, and became one of my starters. For any parents looking for a place to put your child in the fall, I offer this advise... take a goid hard look at any club your interested in. If you see a constant rotation of players during a season, stay away from them because that's a sign that there is no developing of players. Just a coach who really doesn't know what they are doing. If they did, they would develop the kids they have. If you see a club where the roster has stayed relatively the same over the years, that's where you want to put you child. Don't be fooled by some teams "impressive" resume. Alot of the "wins" they are bragging about are really low level tournaments where the competition isn't tough, and alot of coaches will put their team in for the easy win and build up rankings points. I see it all the time. Some coaches, not all, really shouldn't be coaching youth soccer. They would be better off being recruiters rather than coaches. For my fellow 09, 10 coaches, take pride in your job, DEVELOP your players. Spend the time working with them. Your getting paid to do it, worry about the win count in a year for 2. Believe me, it's more rewarding to see a child you developed succeed rather than a child SOMEONE ELSE developed succeed. I know it's a hard concept to fathom, but just try a little bit to do your actuall JOB....

Seems someone else also was hitting the pipe hard this morning, as they seem to have forgotten how to structure a readable paragraph.

[Unregistered]

Great article on what’s going on....the whole thing has spiraled out of control. Not about the kids, just about the $$$. Sad state of affairs. Lots of Academy clubs guilty of this in

https://www.soccerwire.com/resources...aling-players/

Article references "stealing" players. Last I checked all of these clubs are miney-charging businesses, same as Walmart and target. I can ship at either store I choose as the customer and can skip them altogether for the hundreds of other options I have as well, including online shopping. The "thefts" happen because all of these clubs are no more than commodities. Very few refined more than the others. They are all also overpriced. To the author ..... Do you really believe you and your club are so different? Why as a parent should I pay you a kings ransom to have soccer playdates for my kids 3 or 4 days a week? What differentiates you, your club, and the teams that my kids would be on? Why should I pay you instead of someone else? Apparently, you and your club are not developing or winning and you are now crying about it because you are inevitably paying a financial price for poor social media spinning and/or poor performance on the field. Set yourselves apart with training, cost, or performance on the field and stop complaining.

[Unregistered]

Seems like someone is hitting the crack pipe a little early in the am. You really need to stay of forums with your nonsense. I'm a youth coach, with an 09 and 10 team. I take pride in developing my kids. I picked the roster and intend to work with what I have. A constant rotation of players doesn't do my kids any good. In fact, at this age, it might turn some off them off to soccer in the future. At this age it should all be about development, not winning every silly game from here to California. I do agree, as the kids get older, you are not guaranteed a position on a roster, and when playing college showcases you want you best performing players on the field. Not at 11 years old. I read these forums about people complaining about the constant rotation of players during a season. It makes me laugh at the narrow minded ADULTS that think people are posting about this because their child was moved off the "A" team. You need to get a grip on life. This is a major problem with clubs. Coaches want the easy win, the easy job, and that means recruiting players already developed by a coach that actually cares about their players. At 11 years old, it's our job to develope and build future players, not push them aside for the shiny new penny because that might take a little more effort and dedication on the coaches part. I had a kid last year that wasn't at the level of the other kids. Rather them push them off, I found time to work with that child, away from the group. (And didn't ask for a penny to do it.) Why? Because I saw something in the kid and wanted to work with them. And guess what, that kid DID improve, and became one of my starters. For any parents looking for a place to put your child in the fall, I offer this advise... take a goid hard look at any club your interested in. If you see a constant rotation of players during a season, stay away from them because that's a sign that there is no developing of players. Just a coach who really doesn't know what they are doing. If they did, they would develop the kids they have. If you see a club where the roster has stayed relatively the same over the years, that's where you want to put you child. Don't be fooled by some teams "impressive" resume. Alot of the "wins" they are bragging about are really low level tournaments where the competition isn't tough, and alot of coaches will put their team in for the easy win and build up rankings points. I see it all the time. Some coaches, not all, really shouldn't be coaching youth soccer. They would be better off being recruiters rather than coaches. For my fellow 09, 10 coaches, take pride in your job, DEVELOP your players. Spend the time working with them. Your getting paid to do it, worry about the win count in a year for 2. Believe me, it's more rewarding to see a child you developed succeed rather than a child SOMEONE ELSE developed succeed. I know it's a hard concept to fathom, but just try a little bit to do your actuall JOB....

Tremendous post! One of the best I’ve seen on these forums, kudos to you my friend. We need more like you there.

[Unregistered]

Seems someone else also was hitting the pipe hard this morning, as they seem to have forgotten how to structure a readable paragraph.

That's cute... you have your wife proof read posts on Talking Soccer. I bet she ties your shoes for you before you go out the dooor to do your paper route.

[Unregistered]

No, I think they are saying that you don't do this kind of thing MID-SEASON. Commit to develop the players that you selected to pay you at the start of the season, and if they don't progress as you thought, then don't invite them back the next year. And ok, there are special circumstances, like a great player moves to the area and is looking for a club to join; sure, make that exception. But recruiting players mid-season to take spots/playing time from the players you selected a few months earlier is not right.

And yes, parents take some of the blame.

Every club should do 3 simple things and everything would magically improve:
1.) Limit rosters to 13 kids for 9v9 and 18 kids for 11v11 (16 or 17 is more ideal).
2.) Make offers to players for a guaranteed 2 years at a time
3.) Guarantee equal playing time for all players.

If clubs did these three things, they would hold far better tryouts and more closely evaluate all players so as not to stick themselves with deadwood players that can simply pay but not play. As it is now, clubs do not seem to care, take extra players to collect more money with little or no consequence for themselves but have crushing results on individually affected players as well as the overall teams performance. I should add, it is a free market and parents need to ask questions like this to avoid being scammed. Caveat emptor! Youth sports are in a sad state right now in the US and it is too bad. Don't shoot me for this, but take long island as an example. There is a lot of talent on long island and it is a real pain to get to and from. They really could have a quality league of 8 clubs/teams per age group (and gender) that would a.) Be cheap, b.) Be pretty decent, and c.) Be really local (never have to leave the island!). Parents are getting to caught up with sleeve patches and are paying dearly for it (sorry, so many of the sleeve patch clubs do a terrible job training kids and have to replace their own mess every 2 years or so with outsiders). The money is outrageous and kids are burning out with this BS model. Wake up everyone, we can demand and do better.

[Unregistered]

The

You want to take this one persons thoughts and observations and want it to be about a specific club. The story as I read it was generic and not specific. We can then relate it to our own experiences and what happens at every competitive club. If you want your daughter to play for the LOVE of the game then the league or club does not matter. She can go out and play soccer with other girls who just want to play soccer and not worry about those things mentioned in the article. Unfortunately, the vast majority of parents want there kids playing in the most competitive league with players who are highly competitive. When your looking to play with the best then everything that you think should be fair “goes out the window”. There is no loyalty it’s all based on performance. Parents have their own perception of their daughter’s talent and then you have licensed coaches who have there own thoughts and that’s where the trouble begin. Parents have expectations and lack the ability to be realistic about their daughters talent and potential to become a good soccer player. Clubs that have gone with the “pat to play”model for the back end of there teams cause the most problems. Parents are the ones who refuse to accept their daughters are just not good enough Nd should consider moving to a lessor club/team. In short, it’s easy to blame clubs but I blame parents 51%.

[Unregistered]

That's cute... you have your wife proof read posts on Talking Soccer. I bet she ties your shoes for you before you go out the dooor to do your paper route.

Nah, just common knowledge that if you want to spend several minutes putting together a long string of sentences in an effort to make a point, you should ensure it's readable.

You're welcome for the tip.

[Unregistered]

The same guy who wrote that is the same guy who pushes his clubs tryouts earlier and earlier every year, like first rounds of "IDs" in mid March for the following season. Then he demands players commit to the club with a week notice, often with as little information as possible re team/coach even when they haven't played a single Spring game at that point. Parents may be guilty but clubs are the ones who are making money here and pushing each other.

[Unregistered]

Wow, seems people missed the part about poster responding to someone. Response sounds a little sarcastic about new players as how does a club run when new players come if they don't put them on a team they should be which, unfortunately, means someone has to make room. Poster was right though, there are fare bigger issues in youth soccer today then players moving teams mid-season or end of season.

[Unregistered]

Wow, seems people missed the part about poster responding to someone. Response sounds a little sarcastic about new players as how does a club run when new players come if they don't put them on a team they should be which, unfortunately, means someone has to make room. Poster was right though, there are fare bigger issues in youth soccer today then players moving teams mid-season or end of season.

You make it sound like random players showing up to join specific teams mid season is an extremely common occurrence. Does it happen? Absolutely, but more likely the coach of a specific team is recruiting individual players he's played against or seen and has been trying to convince the parents that his/her team is there place to be. This is the outstanding issue, not some kind of roadblock to doing business.

[Unregistered]

Seems like someone is hitting the crack pipe a little early in the am. You really need to stay of forums with your nonsense. I'm a youth coach, with an 09 and 10 team. I take pride in developing my kids. I picked the roster and intend to work with what I have. A constant rotation of players doesn't do my kids any good. In fact, at this age, it might turn some off them off to soccer in the future. At this age it should all be about development, not winning every silly game from here to California. I do agree, as the kids get older, you are not guaranteed a position on a roster, and when playing college showcases you want you best performing players on the field. Not at 11 years old. I read these forums about people complaining about the constant rotation of players during a season. It makes me laugh at the narrow minded ADULTS that think people are posting about this because their child was moved off the "A" team. You need to get a grip on life. This is a major problem with clubs. Coaches want the easy win, the easy job, and that means recruiting players already developed by a coach that actually cares about their players. At 11 years old, it's our job to develope and build future players, not push them aside for the shiny new penny because that might take a little more effort and dedication on the coaches part. I had a kid last year that wasn't at the level of the other kids. Rather them push them off, I found time to work with that child, away from the group. (And didn't ask for a penny to do it.) Why? Because I saw something in the kid and wanted to work with them. And guess what, that kid DID improve, and became one of my starters. For any parents looking for a place to put your child in the fall, I offer this advise... take a goid hard look at any club your interested in. If you see a constant rotation of players during a season, stay away from them because that's a sign that there is no developing of players. Just a coach who really doesn't know what they are doing. If they did, they would develop the kids they have. If you see a club where the roster has stayed relatively the same over the years, that's where you want to put you child. Don't be fooled by some teams "impressive" resume. Alot of the "wins" they are bragging about are really low level tournaments where the competition isn't tough, and alot of coaches will put their team in for the easy win and build up rankings points. I see it all the time. Some coaches, not all, really shouldn't be coaching youth soccer. They would be better off being recruiters rather than coaches. For my fellow 09, 10 coaches, take pride in your job, DEVELOP your players. Spend the time working with them. Your getting paid to do it, worry about the win count in a year for 2. Believe me, it's more rewarding to see a child you developed succeed rather than a child SOMEONE ELSE developed succeed. I know it's a hard concept to fathom, but just try a little bit to do your actuall JOB....

While your approach may work for your team, my own experience has been that adding a player mid-season can help accelerate the pace of development for all players. It's not just about adding a stud player, sometimes a team needs to add a skilled distributor or defender or GK in order for other players to flourish whether that is being able to play in a position that better suits their skills, furthering their development, or simply getting better playmaking opportunities for the existing players by having better distribution. I don't consider that taking the easy way out.

While there is value to having younger players stay together to develop and learn multiple positions, I have seen too many talented players stuck playing out of position for multiple years in the name of development and that ultimately hurts the most talented players who we are tasked with developing. As an example, the best player on one of my kid's teams has been forced to play center back for several years to help the rest of the team to develop while she is being recruited to play striker, her preferred position. It would have certainly helped her development to bring in a talented center back at U11 to allow her to develop the game play and 1v1 skills in the position she's destined to play next level.

I have also seen kids rise up from B teams to become the A team's best player over the course of several years as they grow and develop and if that is welcomed, why wouldn't a kid from outside the club have the same opportunity to come in and add to an existing roster and develop under your coaching?

There is value in the roster stability that you preach, but there is also risk of losing existing players to relocation, injury, other sports, other clubs, etc. I've seen clubs go from having two teams at an age group to no teams over the course of two years. Bringing in new kids to a program becomes essential whether it's a township team or PDA. You see roster turnover as a negative while it is inevitable for team survival. And yes, winning and rankings help attract players to a program.

[Unregistered]

There's a ton wrong with youth soccer but these people that whine about "their" players being "stolen" should grow up.

Referring to the problem as "stealing" suggests that current players (and the accompanying revenue) are club/team/coach assets instead of a voluntary transaction.

If you're afraid of players leaving, then give them and their families the best possible experience at a reasonable price and educate them at the same time as to why your club/team is so good (using actual data/facts instead of the boilerplate BS on every club's web site).

[Unregistered]

There's a ton wrong with youth soccer but these people that whine about "their" players being "stolen" should grow up.

Referring to the problem as "stealing" suggests that current players (and the accompanying revenue) are club/team/coach assets instead of a voluntary transaction.

If you're afraid of players leaving, then give them and their families the best possible experience at a reasonable price and educate them at the same time as to why your club/team is so good (using actual data/facts instead of the boilerplate BS on every club's web site).

Absolutely, agree with your approach but what happens when the boilerplate BS wins out over real and direct feedback/truth. That’s the problem, too many buying into the BS and overselling.

[Unregistered]

Absolutely, agree with your approach but what happens when the boilerplate BS wins out over real and direct feedback/truth. That’s the problem, too many buying into the BS and overselling.

Then a club's leaders and coaches have to accept the trade-off between quality and quantity (one way clubs can do this is via objective data/fact-driven parent/player education).

I live in north NJ so there are a lot of nearby options but other than size and relative performance, I can't tell how clubs truly differentiate (Cedar Stars versus TSF versus WCFC versus Ironbound versus Stallions versus Torpedoes, etc.). All the BS on their web sites sounds way more alike than different after a while.

Sort of funny - a few years ago before my oldest kid started travel soccer, I called around, asked a lot of questions and even played dumb here and there to see what club leaders would say. I asked one guy to help me understand the differences between his club (not a town club) and some of the better town clubs near me. He literally laughed that someone who thought his kid was good enough to play for his club would even consider a town club (we considered Torpedoes back then but opted to stay in our own town instead).

My kid's small town club EDP team crushed his A team in the fall and it was obvious his team's players had little or no real training up to that point. This guy's club has pretty strong older teams but I'll never forget his original reaction.