ECNL/D1/Pro 0 - Netherlands 3 20U Women’s World Cup

[Guest]

I do think part of USWNT domination was simply the under development of competing countries. It’s a sport and when all participants are equally training the competition evens out. USWNT will always be in the mix but as long as other countries continue to develop womens soccer we will never dominate like we once did

Japan vs France was an excellent game. Two different styles of play. Both teams very technical. France u20s are what the US u20s could be if the US was technical and played with movement.

[Guest]

Japan vs France was an excellent game. Two different styles of play. Both teams very technical. France u20s are what the US u20s could be if the US was technical and played with movement.

Movement especially without the ball isn’t something most American coaches believe in. They much prefer kick the ball and go get it.

[Guest]

Movement especially without the ball isn’t something most American coaches believe in. They much prefer kick the ball and go get it.

If you are chasing down a ball, you are moving and don’t have it….isn’t that movement without the ball?

[Guest]

If you are chasing down a ball, you are moving and don’t have it….isn’t that movement without the ball?

If you don’t know soccer think of basketball -golden state warriors- Their movement that creates proper spacing and passing lanes is excellent.

[Guest]

O’Neil should be coaching them. He runs one of the best systems ever seen at PDA

[Guest]

Movement especially without the ball isn’t something most American coaches believe in. They much prefer kick the ball and go get it.

Spacing and numbers are the name of the game. A good example of why just speed isn't the end all be all is to get the fastest player on the team and put another player 20+ yards away. Have someone at the start line play a ball to the other player while speedy takes off and see which one arrives first every single time. Every single time.

[Guest]

If you don’t know soccer think of basketball -golden state warriors- Their movement that creates proper spacing and passing lanes is excellent.

So, you don't have the ball. You are moving. Sounds like movement without the ball to me.

[Guest]

If you don’t know soccer think of basketball -golden state warriors- Their movement that creates proper spacing and passing lanes is excellent.

Basketball is played on a much smaller area. There is no distinction between offense and defensive players. So in a way yes movement off the ball is important in soccer, it’s not basketball bc in basketball all players can go anywhere they want on the playing surface. What would that look like in soccer?

[Guest]

Basketball is played on a much smaller area. There is no distinction between offense and defensive players. So in a way yes movement off the ball is important in soccer, it’s not basketball bc in basketball all players can go anywhere they want on the playing surface. What would that look like in soccer?

You mean like the outside backs getting involved in the offense or the strikers tracking back to play defense way down the field.? Your reply is off point. Bottom line is that movement off the ball is extremely important in both basketball and soccer. The structure is irrelevant.

[Guest]

You mean like the outside backs getting involved in the offense or the strikers tracking back to play defense way down the field.? Your reply is off point. Bottom line is that movement off the ball is extremely important in both basketball and soccer. The structure is irrelevant.

No i am talking about the total reversal of play in basketball. Little guys running the baseline and big guys playing behind the circle. Golden State had 5 guys on floor that can play any position in the floor. Imagine if strikers would end up playing in center back rolls on every play based on rotation? Or center backs playing striker based on rotation. That’s what happens in Golden State. But your point on basketball and movement is based on very few teams. Bc for all the teams that use very nice movement there are two that don’t and rely on 1 guy breaking down a defense 1v1 then kicking it to an open player. Think about people like Harden, who dribbles ball for 20 out of 24 seconds and maybe only 1-2 other people touch the ball in the possession. I can list many other players in basketball that do the same thing, it’s the equivalent to playing long ball in soccer.

[Guest]

No i am talking about the total reversal of play in basketball. Little guys running the baseline and big guys playing behind the circle. Golden State had 5 guys on floor that can play any position in the floor. Imagine if strikers would end up playing in center back rolls on every play based on rotation? Or center backs playing striker based on rotation. That’s what happens in Golden State. But your point on basketball and movement is based on very few teams. Bc for all the teams that use very nice movement there are two that don’t and rely on 1 guy breaking down a defense 1v1 then kicking it to an open player. Think about people like Harden, who dribbles ball for 20 out of 24 seconds and maybe only 1-2 other people touch the ball in the possession. I can list many other players in basketball that do the same thing, it’s the equivalent to playing long ball in soccer.

I think you are being too literal in your comparison of the sports; I believe the OP meant that both sports, played at the highest levels, rely on movement without the ball subject to the structure of their sport.

[Guest]

It could be a pickup game I could still pick out the top players with my eyes half-open and standing next to a TS psycho.

Maybe, but there are stories abound of players being bounced out of European academies where (i will just assume) that the talent identification is far above that of any US youth, college or HS coach's ability. Antoine Griezmann getting bumped from 6-7 french academies, Vardy playing semi pro until his mid 20s, Kante playing 3rd division French league until his 20s. I think the idea that we can always pick out "the best" players is typical coaching arrogance and they miss the mark as often than they hit it and live off being broken clocks.

[Guest]

Maybe, but there are stories abound of players being bounced out of European academies where (i will just assume) that the talent identification is far above that of any US youth, college or HS coach's ability. Antoine Griezmann getting bumped from 6-7 french academies, Vardy playing semi pro until his mid 20s, Kante playing 3rd division French league until his 20s. I think the idea that we can always pick out "the best" players is typical coaching arrogance and they miss the mark as often than they hit it and live off being broken clocks.

:clapping:

it becomes self fulfilling as the egos are too big to say, I got it wrong. Womens soccer is one of the worst sports i have ever seen for this. WNT success allows the narrative to continue when in reality, we are successful, in spite of a broken system, because volume rules. EWE have more player playing longer than any other country in the world. So many that enough shake out of this mess to still dominate most countries. this trickles down through HS/Club soccer. The tams that recruit the widest(volume) win. The solution is rarely to work on coaching/teaching better. Its usually advertise more based on your ability to pick "the best" . Doing less with more is an artform in US womens soccer as long as its enough to win.

[Guest]

Maybe, but there are stories abound of players being bounced out of European academies where (i will just assume) that the talent identification is far above that of any US youth, college or HS coach's ability. Antoine Griezmann getting bumped from 6-7 french academies, Vardy playing semi pro until his mid 20s, Kante playing 3rd division French league until his 20s. I think the idea that we can always pick out "the best" players is typical coaching arrogance and they miss the mark as often than they hit it and live off being broken clocks.

True but we aren't talking picking out talent that is close to each other and with the men's side certainly greater volume of talent. With girls/women it is feast or famine. You don't really need to be arrogant to pick the best players on the girls side. Not the same thing as picking professionals out of a sea of professionals.

Good effort though to make yourself seem smarter than you are.

[Guest]

True but we aren't talking picking out talent that is close to each other and with the men's side certainly greater volume of talent. With girls/women it is feast or famine. You don't really need to be arrogant to pick the best players on the girls side. Not the same thing as picking professionals out of a sea of professionals.

Good effort though to make yourself seem smarter than you are.

This conversation has been one of the few on TS that have remained civil. It has been a good conversation with many good points. Lets not regress now.