The Trophies For All Mantra

[Unregistered]

Haha. You got me on the quote. Seems popular these days on TS to quote somebody. But you're saying that many of the Presidents of the great American colleges and universities are Marxist? OK, I'll take Buffet, then. He gives a TON of money to Grinnell.

And yeah, I guess I do have a bit of guilt, but mostly I'm happy. Took my kids to the last 2 inaugurations which now stand as 2 of the most incredible experiences of their lives. Our chief is first-rate, the epitome of excellence, and a master-study in class.

I'd be more empathic with your side if your side didn't always have such a huge contradiction between being the kings of "freedom" (going to throw up if I see any more of the NRA) with entirely empty rants about socialism but then want the government to manage and invade everything in our private lives. If you don't get that fixed, you won't get somebody elected in the net 50 years.

My point was if you are really trying to sway opinions, you should use a reference that may resonate. Quoting a college president from some LA school in MN is not going to get it done. Glad you enjoyed the inauguration. I just wish you weren't so racist. Your comments are very telling. Any president is typically first rate, the epitome of excellence and a master study in class. White or black. I do not happen to agree with our current President but I do respect the office and I would not care if he were blue. Nor should you.

You see color as much (if not more) than those you accuse of being bigots.

[Unregistered]

On #1 I believe that all Americans believe in a reasonble safety net. I think we do pretty good job taking care of those in need. Based on your own point I do not think we should be drastically expanding these programs.

On point #2 your math is flawed. The same % of a higher number is MORE. Try and argue that it is not and that I do not understand simple math.

Point # 3 You are describing capitalism at work. However, in many instances losing to a competitor is the difference from SURVIVING to BANKRUPTCY.

On Point # 4, there is no need to put winners in parentheses. They give Gold, Silver, etc at the Special Olympics. You are not paying attention if you do not think that many folks do not think competition should be limited or done away with. Didn't you argue that you wanted no trophies at all?

My father was in the highest tax bracket, and I never perceived him to be disadvantaged or watered or weighed down in any way. He had nice cars, nice home, a beach home, and sent us to good colleges.

I suggested getting rid of trophies because I think it is a total red herring. That wouldn't change the cream still rising to the top, or who scores the goals, or who gets in Harvard.

There has never been fiercer competition, or more of a meritocracy, than now, EVER.

[Unregistered]

My point was if you are really trying to sway opinions, you should use a reference that may resonate. Quoting a college president from some LA school in MN is not going to get it done. Glad you enjoyed the inauguration. I just wish you weren't so racist. Your comments are very telling. Any president is typically first rate, the epitome of excellence and a master study in class. White or black. I do not happen to agree with our current President but I do respect the office and I would not care if he were blue. Nor should you.

You see color as much (if not more) than those you accuse of being bigots.

Now YOU are just not being honest. Nice twist with the racist accusation. I didn't have an issue with Bush because he was white....but because he was, how can I say this, not of the caliber of intelligence one would expect for a President. By the way, there are about 100 articles like the "LA school in MN" one in response to the governors of several states trying to remove liberal arts from their universities.

[Unregistered]

How is this on topic, and what does it have to do with "trophies for all"? Maybe you are just on to self-esteem, and I can tell you from a professional point of the view that certainly the opposite is not true -- that is, having poor self-esteem is not a plus. Go interview 10th and 11th grade high school dropouts who are shooting dope and no longer have a place to live to figure that out.

Let me repeat to you, if you read the article on Grit there is a difference of how you treat those who face adversity day in and day out and those who face very little adversity and generally speaking the divide between the two is based on economics. Very few who are posting to this fourm represent a lower economic scale. Most, and I base this on the families I know who have daughters playing on top girls soccer teams, are upper middle class. You couldn't afford to have your daughters play on those teams unless they were. What happens on those teams has now trickled down to lower level teams whose coaches and parents mistakenly believe you have to travel all over kingdom come to play club soccer. So you experience with dope shooting dropouts has nothing to do with the "trophies for all" attitide, because I'm willing to bet those kids' parents aren't much involved with their kids anyway.

The problem with the quotes, which is sort of why I resorted to one in parody, is that we can all read them in a way that supports our own position. I doubt that Stanford prof has a problem with a kid getting a ribbon at a U10 tournament.

So how does Dweck's approach tie into this topic, you ask? Let's paraphrase part of the post above, substituting athletic talent for intelligence.

She makes clear why praising athletic talent and ability doesn’t foster self-esteem and lead to accomplishment, but may actually jeopardize success.

And the reason that may be is that instead of developing a "growth mindset" in children you maybe encouraging a "fixed mindset" or in other words, you are who you are, your talents are fixed as opposed to a work in progress. A child around the age of 12 starts to have the mental capacity to compare themselves to others and it is around this age you start to see kids drop out from sports, particularly when faced with competing against kids who are entering puberty ahead of them. These will be the kids with the fixed mindset as opposed to those who are developing a growth mindset.

And btw, on that other example about skipping the last day of a tournament, I can assure you neither the parents or the kids cared about some dinky little trophy or t-shirt. They no doubt were pissed that they already had spent 2 days there and when you advance you presume you'll stay until you're knocked out. Wild, wild thinking on display here.

No when more than one parent complains about their kids not getting a trophy, I take them at their word.

[Unregistered]

Now YOU are just not being honest. Nice twist with the racist accusation. I didn't have an issue with Bush because he was white....but because he was, how can I say this, not of the caliber of intelligence one would expect for a President. By the way, there are about 100 articles like the "LA school in MN" one in response to the governors of several states trying to remove liberal arts from their universities.

I am being very honest. You brought up race, not me. You copped to the fact that race has factored into your praise. That is racism.

Bush went to Yale. Obama went to Harvard. But Bush is a moron and Obama is a genius. Please.

[Unregistered]

Let me repeat to you, if you read the article on Grit there is a difference of how you treat those who face adversity day in and day out and those who face very little adversity and generally speaking the divide between the two is based on economics. Very few who are posting to this fourm represent a lower economic scale. Most, and I base this on the families I know who have daughters playing on top girls soccer teams, are upper middle class. You couldn't afford to have your daughters play on those teams unless they were. What happens on those teams has now trickled down to lower level teams whose coaches and parents mistakenly believe you have to travel all over kingdom come to play club soccer. So you experience with dope shooting dropouts has nothing to do with the "trophies for all" attitide, because I'm willing to bet those kids' parents aren't much involved with their kids anyway.



So how does Dweck's approach tie into this topic, you ask? Let's paraphrase part of the post above, substituting athletic talent for intelligence.

She makes clear why praising athletic talent and ability doesn’t foster self-esteem and lead to accomplishment, but may actually jeopardize success.

And the reason that may be is that instead of developing a "growth mindset" in children you maybe encouraging a "fixed mindset" or in other words, you are who you are, your talents are fixed as opposed to a work in progress. A child around the age of 12 starts to have the mental capacity to compare themselves to others and it is around this age you start to see kids drop out from sports, particularly when faced with competing against kids who are entering puberty ahead of them. These will be the kids with the fixed mindset as opposed to those who are developing a growth mindset.




No when more than one parent complains about their kids not getting a trophy, I take them at their word.

i appreciate the effort you put into that, but unfortunately none of it has anything to do with the myth of "trophies for all."

So you don't like families of kids on lesser club soccer teams traveling. Hmmm, OK. But what does that have to do with "trophies for all"?

You think failure is important and that self-esteem is overrated as a factor in success? OK, fine, but again, don't see the link.

My point is that kids meant to rise to the top rise to the top. Maybe you have a kid in the national pool? Congrats if that is so. Not every kid gets to be in the national pool. There is no flattening of ability or medals for all there, or with college admissions, or almost anything else. As I have said, we have never had more of a meritocracy than we have now.

Sorry.

[Unregistered]

I am being very honest. You brought up race, not me. You copped to the fact that race has factored into your praise. That is racism.

Bush went to Yale. Obama went to Harvard. But Bush is a moron and Obama is a genius. Please.

Where did I say race factored in my praise? I referenced factors in why a very normal guy with impeccable credentials and very mainstream, progressive views (not trying to set the country back 60 years) would be so vilified (like at my post office with a Hitler mustache, for example).

Bush was a legacy for Yale (after benefiting from Philips Academy) and a solid C student. Obama was the head of the Harvard Law Review. Not a close call.

[Unregistered]

Where did I say race factored in my praise? I referenced factors in why a very normal guy with impeccable credentials and very mainstream, progressive views (not trying to set the country back 60 years) would be so vilified (like at my post office with a Hitler mustache, for example).

Bush was a legacy for Yale (after benefiting from Philips Academy) and a solid C student. Obama was the head of the Harvard Law Review. Not a close call.

Obama was there completely on his own merit? Why wont he release his college transcripts? Ted "the liberal lion" Kennedy never received the same criticism you just threw at Bush. You like Obama, you do not like Bush. Got it.

Who initially brought up the race card? YOU. And you can't defend it. You see color.

MLK asked us not to do that 50 some years ago. Let go of the guilt.

[Unregistered]

Obama was there completely on his own merit? Why wont he release his college transcripts? Ted "the liberal lion" Kennedy never received the same criticism you just threw at Bush. You like Obama, you do not like Bush. Got it.

Who initially brought up the race card? YOU. And you can't defend it. You see color.

MLK asked us not to do that 50 some years ago. Let go of the guilt.

Glad to hear you think everything is just "all square" now. No more human rights progress needed.

So you think Obama got to the top of Harvard Law School without being true Harvard material....and Columbia took him as a transfer from Occidental just because. Why do you think my post office had a little stand set up with brochures and huge posters of Obama with a Hitler mustache? Just because they don't like how he's handled the North Koreans? I raised race because it is clearly is part of the cultural reaction to Obama, and the racism even is overt with citizens and some politicians all across the country.

[Unregistered]

Glad to hear you think everything is just "all square" now. No more human rights progress needed.

So you think Obama got to the top of Harvard Law School without being true Harvard material....and Columbia took him as a transfer from Occidental just because. Why do you think my post office had a little stand set up with brochures and huge posters of Obama with a Hitler mustache? Just because they don't like how he's handled the North Koreans? I raised race because it is clearly is part of the cultural reaction to Obama, and the racism even is overt with citizens and some politicians all across the country.

His transcripts have not been made public.......
Again......You like (love) Obama and hate Bush. I get it. You are typical of the leftys. Hypocrisy is in your blood. Did Ted K get into Harvard on his own merit? Did his connections help? How about John Kerry? No connections there? But Bush is a moron who was the last two term President we had. Cmon.

We have an African American Governor and President. I think the race thing is squaring up fairly well. All major sports are dominated by minorities (except hockey). I think things have come a long way.

[Unregistered]

His transcripts have not been made public.......
Again......You like (love) Obama and hate Bush. I get it. You are typical of the leftys. Hypocrisy is in your blood. Did Ted K get into Harvard on his own merit? Did his connections help? How about John Kerry? No connections there? But Bush is a moron who was the last two term President we had. Cmon.

We have an African American Governor and President. I think the race thing is squaring up fairly well. All major sports are dominated by minorities (except hockey). I think things have come a long way.

This is really ridiculous. I understand Bush, Kennedy and Kerry have a lot in common, although I do think the latter two were/are smarter. I did not say Bush is a moron. Your words. And all things considered I liked his Dad OK and I think George Sr was/is quite bright.

So the transcript thing. What is your hunch there? Think they are buried somewhere like Grand Cayman along with proof that he was born in some Muslim country? Do you think he is really part of an Islamic terrorist group? Do you generally raise questions about such things with other candidates? You think there was a conspiracy to have him be Prez all the way back before he was a little community organizer in Chicago? Let's just start with listening to him when he talks now. He's obviously brilliant regardless of your views and always the smartest person in the room with also an immaculate temperament.

BTW, what Dr. Rosenberg wrote about ignorance and polemics and how they are used was absolutely true. You should read the whole article.

[Unregistered]

For anyone to suggest that there is no race reaction to Obama in this country means he or she has been living on another planet. I missed the part where you explained the Hitler thing at my office and all over this state...the great liberal state of MA, mind you.

[Unregistered]

This is really ridiculous. I understand Bush, Kennedy and Kerry have a lot in common, although I do think the latter two were/are smarter. I did not say Bush is a moron. Your words. And all things considered I liked his Dad OK and I think George Sr was/is quite bright.

So the transcript thing. What is your hunch there? Think they are buried somewhere like Grand Cayman along with proof that he was born in some Muslim country? Do you think he is really part of an Islamic terrorist group? Do you generally raise questions about such things with other candidates? You think there was a conspiracy to have him be Prez all the way back before he was a little community organizer in Chicago? Let's just start with listening to him when he talks now. He's obviously brilliant regardless of your views and always the smartest person in the room with also an immaculate temperament.

BTW, what Dr. Rosenberg wrote about ignorance and polemics and how they are used was absolutely true. You should read the whole article.

You and Chris Matthews both have tingles down your leg! You have gone from calling him a regular guy to hero worship.

Another loony left trait is to make absurd accusations when challenged. You are caricature.

I did read that drivel from Dr. Rosenberg. Guy trying to protect his turf. Not exactly stepping out of the box on that one. A president of a college defending academic pursuits. What next Dems raising taxes?

[Unregistered]

For anyone to suggest that there is no race reaction to Obama in this country means he or she has been living on another planet. I missed the part where you explained the Hitler thing at my office and all over this state...the great liberal state of MA, mind you.

Sure race played a huge part in this election. One could easily argue that Obam's race was a huge positive factor for him. Minorities voted in record numbers in the past two elections. And overwhelmingly for Obama. Fact.

Just because some idiot drew on a poster does not refute the reality.

[Unregistered]

You and Chris Matthews both have tingles down your leg! You have gone from calling him a regular guy to hero worship.

Another loony left trait is to make absurd accusations when challenged. You are caricature.

I did read that drivel from Dr. Rosenberg. Guy trying to protect his turf. Not exactly stepping out of the box on that one. A president of a college defending academic pursuits. What next Dems raising taxes?

You raised about a question about transcripts twice. I assume you have some idea about that or you wouldn't have made that a key point in two different posts.

Your post is funny though. Enjoyed it. Chris M. is actually losing it a bit in his older age.

You have to read what the Governor of NC said to understand Dr. Rosenberg's points.

Didn't know someone could actually endorse "defending academic pursuits" as something that is silly or contraindicated.

As for your followup post, that was ridiculous. Not just one guy drawing a mustache. It was an organized effort in towns all over. If you think there are no race issues any more in America and that there is not a significant portion of white America that cannot accept having a smart, black man as President then you have lived a very sheltered life. I suppose you don't think gay bashing exists anymore either.

You're probably a supporter of Duke lacrosse, too :)