The Trophies For All Mantra

[Unregistered]

With the current little lull in activity, I wanted to raise a topic that has been bugging me more than any other issue on the site...and that is the new penchant to reply to almost everything with "trophies for all" or "we won't be any good until we get rid of trophies for all," etc, etc. It has replaced the typical "Thanks Mom" or "Thanks Fred" or "Thanks Patrick" crap as the empty, numb-brained but still nasty retort of choice. And of course underlying this I think is something much worse which is a non-thinking, neo-conservative mindset that carries a ton of untenable assumptions and carries an extremely distorted understanding of "competition." The retort now stretches from kneejerk reactions to a U10 tournament to grossly distorted ideas about our President. I am disturbed by it, but also curious as to why it has gained so much traction. My impression in terms of the mantra as a cultural phenomenon is that it is Charlie Sheen in full blown mania turbocharged.

A competitive society (like we have) does not have to antithetical to a fair and humane approach to others, or does it? I am always struck that the ones who seem to spout the mantra the most believe they will or their kids will always end up on top. Maybe greatness is sometimes collaborative? Or does that suggestion make me a Marxist? Do people really believe that we (and I mean both our country and the bigger global "WE") are producing less superstars....in sports and in every other field...technology, science, etc???

Should kids not play soccer if they can only play for a good MAPLE team? Or just their town team? Or if they are ONLY going to be good enough for D3 college soccer?

If your kid was in a pool of 10 with 9 other "superior" kids (whatever that means), knowing full well that at least some of them are "superior" to your kid, and only 2 of the 10 would get the "trophy" of going to college, would you accept those odds? Would you indeed clamor for them, even if you were pretty sure you would be going home "without a trophy"? Or is it only the grandiose, entitled belief that you and your kids will always rise to the top that allows you to so easily spout out this crap?

I really don't get what it is all about. How does everyone being treated with some dignity and respect prevent the cream from rising to the top? Maybe someone can explain it to me.

[Unregistered]

Getting very tired of the elitest bull crap. Ever think that some people might should measure their participation according to their expected results. Way to many people on this forum act as though money is no object and no one should have any limits placed on them at all. This is the same sort of thinking that almost blew apart our economy. The lesson we all should have learned from the past decade is if you can't afford it, don't do it. The parallel in sports is if you are not good enough, don't do it.

[Unregistered]

Getting very tired of the elitest bull crap. Ever think that some people might should measure their participation according to their expected results. Way to many people on this forum act as though money is no object and no one should have any limits placed on them at all. This is the same sort of thinking that almost blew apart our economy. The lesson we all should have learned from the past decade is if you can't afford it, don't do it. The parallel in sports is if you are not good enough, don't do it.

Thanks for this clarification of your position, btdt.

How many players on your own team do you believe shouldn't be there and shouldn't be spending the money? Come on. I'm sure they'd interested to hear your views on that.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for this clarification of your position, btdt.

How many players on your own team do you believe shouldn't be there and shouldn't be spending the money? Come on. I'm sure they'd interested to hear your views on that.

I think you meant JD not BTDT. This thread is obviously a defensive stance from a club coach. BTDT, CUJO, Messi whomever you might think it is will be just more crap degrading the Forum. I think many need a reality check in why they even searched for a forum in the first place. If it was to brag about your U-little team or player than you came to the lions den. You'd be better off flirting with a local newspaper reporter if you are that desperate for someone to pay attention. It will be over soon so enjoy it mom.

Honestly I could care less anymore what others think as I'm only in it for my kids sake and have my own passions to work on.

[Unregistered]

Do people really believe that we (and I mean both our country and the bigger global "WE") are producing less superstars....in sports and in every other field...technology, science, etc???

In absolute terms and on a relative basis in terms of that global "we" measure, it's irrefutable fact. We "invested" more (or arguably diverted resources from what matters) and produced less (or gotten less return on that so-called investment).

And before you poo poo the idea of maintaining our greatness and our standing in this context, be careful what you wish for (or to suggest that there's nothing wrong with sharing the spotlight, wealth or anything else). Collectivism, whatever you care to debate about it, lowers the mean and median - it brings the top down more than builds the bottom up.

Our economy, academics, whatever arena, it's not good.

You asked if being competitive meant being antithetical to fairness or humanity, etc. No. But don't tell that to the collectivists.

Who says you can broaden the base in anything (from jobs in the economy to player development in youth soccer), but still promote excellence and achievement?

[Unregistered]

In absolute terms and on a relative basis in terms of that global "we" measure, it's irrefutable fact. We "invested" more (or arguably diverted resources from what matters) and produced less (or gotten less return on that so-called investment).

And before you poo poo the idea of maintaining our greatness and our standing in this context, be careful what you wish for (or to suggest that there's nothing wrong with sharing the spotlight, wealth or anything else). Collectivism, whatever you care to debate about it, lowers the mean and median - it brings the top down more than builds the bottom up.

Our economy, academics, whatever arena, it's not good.

You asked if being competitive meant being antithetical to fairness or humanity, etc. No. But don't tell that to the collectivists.

Who says you can broaden the base in anything (from jobs in the economy to player development in youth soccer), but still promote excellence and achievement?

Maybe we're talking about different things. I see plenty of exceptionalism and exclusivity. Harvard turns down more valedictorians and 2200+ SATs than it takes every year. The admit rates have been declining, at almost all elite schools, for multiple years running. It's not easy to make a Stars team. That's why so many focus on them and apparently have a disdain. They don't take charity cases. But all that doesn't mean others can go to other schools and to other teams, and end up doing well. In contrast to the constant allegation and outcry about "trophies for all," we are actually a very MVP conscious society. WHo is the best player? WHo won the Harvard Book Award at your school? WHo are the national merit finalists? Who won the Rhodes scholarship? A guy like Rondo can't make the Olympic team. And then after creating a superstar, MVP is all culture, we proceed to rip allof them apart.

And I hope btdt can explain how criticizing the impulse to characterize so much as "trophies for all" is elitist. Wow.

[Unregistered]

With the current little lull in activity, I wanted to raise a topic that has been bugging me more than any other issue on the site...and that is the new penchant to reply to almost everything with "trophies for all" or "we won't be any good until we get rid of trophies for all," etc, etc. It has replaced the typical "Thanks Mom" or "Thanks Fred" or "Thanks Patrick" crap as the empty, numb-brained but still nasty retort of choice. And of course underlying this I think is something much worse which is a non-thinking, neo-conservative mindset that carries a ton of untenable assumptions and carries an extremely distorted understanding of "competition." The retort now stretches from kneejerk reactions to a U10 tournament to grossly distorted ideas about our President. I am disturbed by it, but also curious as to why it has gained so much traction. My impression in terms of the mantra as a cultural phenomenon is that it is Charlie Sheen in full blown mania turbocharged.

A competitive society (like we have) does not have to antithetical to a fair and humane approach to others, or does it? I am always struck that the ones who seem to spout the mantra the most believe they will or their kids will always end up on top. Maybe greatness is sometimes collaborative? Or does that suggestion make me a Marxist? Do people really believe that we (and I mean both our country and the bigger global "WE") are producing less superstars....in sports and in every other field...technology, science, etc???

Should kids not play soccer if they can only play for a good MAPLE team? Or just their town team? Or if they are ONLY going to be good enough for D3 college soccer?

If your kid was in a pool of 10 with 9 other "superior" kids (whatever that means), knowing full well that at least some of them are "superior" to your kid, and only 2 of the 10 would get the "trophy" of going to college, would you accept those odds? Would you indeed clamor for them, even if you were pretty sure you would be going home "without a trophy"? Or is it only the grandiose, entitled belief that you and your kids will always rise to the top that allows you to so easily spout out this crap?

I really don't get what it is all about. How does everyone being treated with some dignity and respect prevent the cream from rising to the top? Maybe someone can explain it to me.

How you tie this into conservatism is beyond me. The "trophy for everyone" philosophy is as bad as the "win at all cost" attitude. Neither does anything to improve the level of our youth, whether speaking of athletics, academics, whatever. A trophy for everyone gives children a false sense of accomplishment. Personally, I don't think the kids are fooled. Only their parents.

[Unregistered]

How you tie this into conservatism is beyond me. The "trophy for everyone" philosophy is as bad as the "win at all cost" attitude. Neither does anything to improve the level of our youth, whether speaking of athletics, academics, whatever. A trophy for everyone gives children a false sense of accomplishment. Personally, I don't think the kids are fooled. Only their parents.

Because it's a retort that only comes out in certain situations. Is there any evidence that it is real? Where does this "trophies for all" thing really happen?

[Unregistered]

With the current little lull in activity, I wanted to raise a topic that has been bugging me more than any other issue on the site...and that is the new penchant to reply to almost everything with "trophies for all" or "we won't be any good until we get rid of trophies for all," etc, etc. It has replaced the typical "Thanks Mom" or "Thanks Fred" or "Thanks Patrick" crap as the empty, numb-brained but still nasty retort of choice. And of course underlying this I think is something much worse which is a non-thinking, neo-conservative mindset that carries a ton of untenable assumptions and carries an extremely distorted understanding of "competition." The retort now stretches from kneejerk reactions to a U10 tournament to grossly distorted ideas about our President. I am disturbed by it, but also curious as to why it has gained so much traction. My impression in terms of the mantra as a cultural phenomenon is that it is Charlie Sheen in full blown mania turbocharged.

A competitive society (like we have) does not have to antithetical to a fair and humane approach to others, or does it? I am always struck that the ones who seem to spout the mantra the most believe they will or their kids will always end up on top. Maybe greatness is sometimes collaborative? Or does that suggestion make me a Marxist? Do people really believe that we (and I mean both our country and the bigger global "WE") are producing less superstars....in sports and in every other field...technology, science, etc???

Should kids not play soccer if they can only play for a good MAPLE team? Or just their town team? Or if they are ONLY going to be good enough for D3 college soccer?

If your kid was in a pool of 10 with 9 other "superior" kids (whatever that means), knowing full well that at least some of them are "superior" to your kid, and only 2 of the 10 would get the "trophy" of going to college, would you accept those odds? Would you indeed clamor for them, even if you were pretty sure you would be going home "without a trophy"? Or is it only the grandiose, entitled belief that you and your kids will always rise to the top that allows you to so easily spout out this crap?

I really don't get what it is all about. How does everyone being treated with some dignity and respect prevent the cream from rising to the top? Maybe someone can explain it to me.

I think it mostly comes from the tigermoms and dads who feel like it steals the spotlight from their uber-child. In their world their child is competing not just with kids on other teams but with kids on their own teams. They want the spotlight shining on their progeny. They overstate the impact and so self-absorbed that they really don't understand the lack of impact that "trophies for all" have on kids. Besides the trophies get scarcer at an age when they mean a little more. I remember that each year in little league we got participation trophies. The big thrill was getting a handshake and autograph from a Boston Red Sox player at a banquet. The trophy? Went up on a shelf in the playroom with a bunch of other trophies - some for winning some for participating. Same thing happened to my daughter during her sports career. The trophies (cumbaya and some real nice ones such as Student athlete of the year at her HS) are now just collecting dust in a box.

Really nothing more than sour grapes parents who probably never played a sport competitively in their life. The problem is that they try to treat school and sports as the same thing.

[Unregistered]

With the current little lull in activity, I wanted to raise a topic that has been bugging me more than any other issue on the site...and that is the new penchant to reply to almost everything with "trophies for all" or "we won't be any good until we get rid of trophies for all," etc, etc. It has replaced the typical "Thanks Mom" or "Thanks Fred" or "Thanks Patrick" crap as the empty, numb-brained but still nasty retort of choice. And of course underlying this I think is something much worse which is a non-thinking, neo-conservative mindset that carries a ton of untenable assumptions and carries an extremely distorted understanding of "competition." The retort now stretches from kneejerk reactions to a U10 tournament to grossly distorted ideas about our President. I am disturbed by it, but also curious as to why it has gained so much traction. My impression in terms of the mantra as a cultural phenomenon is that it is Charlie Sheen in full blown mania turbocharged.

A competitive society (like we have) does not have to antithetical to a fair and humane approach to others, or does it? I am always struck that the ones who seem to spout the mantra the most believe they will or their kids will always end up on top. Maybe greatness is sometimes collaborative? Or does that suggestion make me a Marxist? Do people really believe that we (and I mean both our country and the bigger global "WE") are producing less superstars....in sports and in every other field...technology, science, etc???

Should kids not play soccer if they can only play for a good MAPLE team? Or just their town team? Or if they are ONLY going to be good enough for D3 college soccer?

If your kid was in a pool of 10 with 9 other "superior" kids (whatever that means), knowing full well that at least some of them are "superior" to your kid, and only 2 of the 10 would get the "trophy" of going to college, would you accept those odds? Would you indeed clamor for them, even if you were pretty sure you would be going home "without a trophy"? Or is it only the grandiose, entitled belief that you and your kids will always rise to the top that allows you to so easily spout out this crap?

I really don't get what it is all about. How does everyone being treated with some dignity and respect prevent the cream from rising to the top? Maybe someone can explain it to me.

Wow. Typical non-thinking liberal mindset.

[Unregistered]

What is the actual strategic purpose when people use the phrase? Aside from politics, as I think both liberals and conservatives can have, for example, an autistic kid or otherwise special needs kid, do these folks really believe the Special Olympics are a bad thing, like ruining and bringing down our society? Are there parents who truly believe they have an incredibly gifted child who is being held back by this so-called "trophies for all" mentality? Seriously, the way the term gets thrown around I'd like to understand what people actually mean.

[Unregistered]

Maybe we're talking about different things. I see plenty of exceptionalism and exclusivity. Harvard turns down more valedictorians and 2200+ SATs than it takes every year. The admit rates have been declining, at almost all elite schools, for multiple years running. It's not easy to make a Stars team. That's why so many focus on them and apparently have a disdain. They don't take charity cases. But all that doesn't mean others can go to other schools and to other teams, and end up doing well. In contrast to the constant allegation and outcry about "trophies for all," we are actually a very MVP conscious society. WHo is the best player? WHo won the Harvard Book Award at your school? WHo are the national merit finalists? Who won the Rhodes scholarship? A guy like Rondo can't make the Olympic team. And then after creating a superstar, MVP is all culture, we proceed to rip allof them apart.

And I hope btdt can explain how criticizing the impulse to characterize so much as "trophies for all" is elitist. Wow.

Here is where you are delusional. It IS easy to make one of these supposed "elite" teams now, all you need is the money and desire to be on the team. Talent is a secondary matter in this pay to play environment. Once you look around a bit you can't help but notice that there are far more roster spots available on all of these elite teams than there are talented players to fill them yet all of the teams market themselves as though they are something better than above average. They are not. The reason the Stars catch so much grief is they are worst offender.

[Unregistered]

Elite Club National League says it all.

[Unregistered]

There is nothing at all wrong with a " trophies for all " model in specific instances. For example , evdeavors involving younger children. It can be a motivating factor because it rewards the effort put forth in the activity.Without reward, the young child may put less effort into the activity, and the consequnces may be such that they never reasch their potential. within the confines of a specific group, awards and trophies may be accepted in different ways, some children may feel honored, others may care less.

Coaches, Instructors, and organization need to recognize when and where to use them, and be aware that at certain ages , they may be no longer warranted or effective.

[Unregistered]

Here is where you are delusional. It IS easy to make one of these supposed "elite" teams now, all you need is the money and desire to be on the team. Talent is a secondary matter in this pay to play environment. Once you look around a bit you can't help but notice that there are far more roster spots available on all of these elite teams than there are talented players to fill them yet all of the teams market themselves as though they are something better than above average. They are not. The reason the Stars catch so much grief is they are worst offender.

"Delusional?" A little hyperbolic don't you think, btdt? Sure, your kid could make it, but you think the average, decent MAPLE player could land spots on the Stars A teams? Keep dreaming. And please, keep posting. You are provnig over and over to anyone who doubted what you are really all about. Well done.