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MIAA tournament seeding is biased in favor of teams in the Bay State conference

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    MIAA tournament seeding is biased in favor of teams in the Bay State conference

    MIAA tournament seeding is heavily biased in favor of conferences like the Bay State conference teams. It can't be a coincidence that the formula works in their favor, the MIAA could easily have used a better approach.

    And yes, it matters. Not the ranking, but the tournament seeding, that gives the Bay State teams a better chance to make the quarterfinals.

    tl:dr: The max goal differential of three is a choice to build in a bias against teams that play in a mixed conference with more and less competitive teams. And a GD of 3 favors conferences and teams with more similar competition, that would typically have games within that max GD (looking at you, Bay State).

    The MIAA formula is an average of a result for all games played, using the goal differential with a maximum of 3 + the opponent's rating.

    Most conferences or leagues have a mix of teams. Some have a low or negative rating. Just playing low rated teams at all - no matter what the game result - will usually lower the ratings of the other team. Because that game can at best result in a 2 - 3 point result to average into the rating. For example, if playing a team rated 0, using a max GD of 3, you can only at best get a 3. When playing negatively rated teams, the most the result can be is even less. But if those teams are in your conference, you have to play them - often more than once.

    Some clown will come along and say, they have to use something simple. There are simple alternatives that would bias the seeding less. One approach would be to use a max GD of 4 or 5, that better allows for the reality of the result when playing low rated teams.

    Then another doofus will come along and say "it's 3 goals because sportsmanship." But no one is stopping at 3 goals because of sportsmanship, everyone just wants to keep playing a real game vs a pass around to kill time. At 6 or so, that's more like it. If the losing team and their parents are themselves showing sportsmanship.

    Current Bay State MIAA rankings are listed below. So note how for teams in Carey, the worst team you have to play twice is Framingham, with the possibility of a 6.39 result (3.39 + 3 GD) or even a 3.39 result for just a tie, to average into the tournament seeding. Or in Herget, playing Milton has a 2.73 result for a tie, or up to a 5.73 result. Now compare that to the range of teams in other conferences in the state.

    Carey
    1 Natick
    2 Wellesley
    3 Brookline
    10 Newton North
    16 Framingham - 3.39 rating currently

    Herget
    5 Needham
    9 Weymouth
    13 Braintree
    8 D2 Walpole
    13 D2 Milton - 2.73 rating currently

    These teams are good teams. But the rankings are also the result of how the MIAA formula fails to reflect the realities of different conferences, and introduces a bias in favor of conferences that have less of a range of team competitiveness.

    Some examples, look at how narrow the GD is:
    Needham https://www.arbiterlive.com/Teams/Schedule/5645725
    Brookline https://www.arbiterlive.com/Teams/Schedule/5645678
    Wellesley https://www.arbiterlive.com/Teams/Schedule/5645731


    #2
    How's retirement treating you?

    Comment


      #3
      I'm a pretty strong advocate of the power rankings system (it holds up very well in the playoffs), but I'm willing to agree with this thoughtful post saying that the 3 goal cap deserves another look. I have kids in Bay State, so I admit bias, but on the girls side I strongly believe that Hopkinton has been affected adversely by the cap in this particular year. I would support a modification that counted GD above 3 with some sort of declining weight. Say the 4th goal counts for 0.5, 5th for 0.25 and so on. It would preserve the intent of the rule while allowing some benefit for repeated high margins.

      Hopkinton is going to get an adequate chance to prove themselves, but they will miss a home game that they might otherwise have deserved.

      I appreciate that OP did not say dumb stuff like "wins should count for more", "defense wins championships" etc.

      Comment


        #4
        Hopkinton is an interesting example. Their current rating is 4.04 at #7. There are games where the best possible result under the current formula still significantly brings down their rating. For example, Norwood -0.63 -> 2.37 result, twice. That alone is roughly enough to take them from around the #4 spot.

        Also interesting that their conference includes teams that range from D1 to D5.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Guest View Post
          Hopkinton is an interesting example. Their current rating is 4.04 at #7. There are games where the best possible result under the current formula still significantly brings down their rating. For example, Norwood -0.63 -> 2.37 result, twice. That alone is roughly enough to take them from around the #4 spot.

          Also interesting that their conference includes teams that range from D1 to D5.
          Apply to a new league, beat Westwood, or stop complaining. Simple.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Guest View Post

            Apply to a new league, beat Westwood, or stop complaining. Simple.
            Move Norwood into the Bay State. Simple.

            That would make a difference in both leagues. Right there is the proof that something is way off with the MIAA system.

            Also, no shade on Hopkinton, but seeing a team come together and get a win like Westwood did is one of the great things about this game.

            Comment


              #7
              Folks always get irritated about post season seeding. It’s a shame when two very good teams meet earlier than they should. Such is life. Connecticut uses straight win/loss record for the post season tournaments, regardless on conference. Seeding means nothing there. Win or go home.

              Comment


                #8
                There is no fairly seed teams from different regions that rarely play each other. You end up with teams from WMass traveling hours on a bus to play EMass teams at home. There should be a rule that if the drive is more than an hour, the game should be played at a neutral site half way between. These are students, not pro athletes.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Guest View Post
                  There is no fair way to seed teams from different regions that rarely play each other. You end up with teams from WMass traveling hours on a bus to play EMass teams at home. There should be a rule that if the drive is more than an hour, the game should be played at a neutral site half way between. These are students, not pro athletes.
                  Corrected

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It's true that inter-conference seeding is tough.

                    But when there's a glaring problem, there's every reason to go ahead and fix it. It just shouldn't be the case that playing some matches means pulling a team's rating down by a significant amount.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Where have you seen the seedings?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The power ranking will be updated Friday and then the brackets should come out later in the day on Friday.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          If I'm reading this thread correctly it was started by a Hopkinton parent who is upset about getting bounced "early" by Feehan last year and the prospect of a similar fate this year. Have you spoken to your AD about moving to a conference that is more in line with the skill of your team?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm not the OP, I'm the one who mentioned Hopkinton, but it's possible that OP is a fan. It's a really interesting example. And yeah Westwood did an amazing thing. But similar has happened to other teams ranked higher. Upsets are great. Wouldn't it be best to have tournament seeding where we are confident an upset is an upset? We're pretty close as it is.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Guest View Post
                              Move Norwood into the Bay State. Simple.

                              That would make a difference in both leagues. Right there is the proof that something is way off with the MIAA system.

                              Also, no shade on Hopkinton, but seeing a team come together and get a win like Westwood did is one of the great things about this game.
                              Norwood used to be in the BSL. They left because they could not compete.

                              Comment

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