ECNL wants to switch back to school year from birth year

[Guest]

People will say we're crazy for even suggesting that girls could end up with an MLS Next or NWSL Next league above ECNL, but it does make sense that things would go that way if pro women's soccer grows and becomes more valuable. In that case, it also makes sense to have MLS/NWSL Next use BY and be the league for future pros, with the bottom part playing in college. ECNL becomes the lone second tier in both girls and boys with only some percent of top players playing in college. ECNL and everyone below uses SY. As a consolation prize, ECNL grows like crazy (maybe into RL, or RL2/RL3) and brings in far more revenue. Parents and kids would win bc the resulting consolidation of second tier and below would lead to less travel, and they can pick the system which is more tailored to their goals.

not crazy, but you have a clear lack of understanding around the economics of the matter. SY or BY in what you describe is COMPLETELY irrelevant, because there aren't the resources or incentive to even attempt to displace something like ECNL. Forgetting for a minute that the fact there are only 14 NWSL teams who's salary cap is only 3.3MM, or averaging 132k per player, with the majority of players making less than teacher starting salaries there is no transfer market for women to fund any investment in pro-academies the way there are on the men's side. Thats 350 total pro players. They already have a player pipeline, which is basically free with ECNL and the NCAA, and the most recent NWSL CBA basically makes all players free agents rather than the MLS geographic player ownership model.

If you've even been to a NWSL game, you'd know that the attendance is pretty light. They usually cater to youth soccer teams and a dedicated group of female fans of females. The average attendance is just north of 10k per game, which has been skewed by the fact that whenever/wherever the SD Wave had played, Alex Morgan drew double to triple attendance at those venues. Ticket sales don't really cover just player salaries, there is no sociable TV revenue and concessions cant be as remotely profitable as even the MLS games just due to scale.

All in, its a small time operation that doesn't have the resources or incentive to fund a youth program en-masse. They are doing their best to pay their own players a reasonable scale, continue to just exist and do their best to grow the game. I havent looked at it lately, but i remember reading that there wasnt a single NWSL team that was profitable. MLS clubs also generally have no interest in doing anything with womens soccer beyond running some youth camps or teams, but on a for profit basis that would just participate in whatever league structures already exist.

[Guest]

Agreed. It's going to be an August 1 start date to the year and ending on July 31, and kids outside that window will play with a different age group.

My son was born June 8 and in the state of Ohio June July and August birthdays ask that parents decide if their child starts Kindergarten at age 5 or 6. He is playing on a team of all 5th graders. He and one other kid are June/July birthdays and under this system would be forced off their Club of 4 years and be forced to play with the grade above them. Doesn’t that make these kids the new “trap players” that the youth system is trying to prevent? They weren’t held back from school. The recommendation in Ohio for those birth months is that they belong in whichever kindergarten year that their parents decide.

[Guest]

99% of girls playing club soccer have zero interest in playing professionally. And the girls who do want to play professionally still got to Stanford, UNC, UF, and UCLA before going pro. Women's professional sports are decades from being the dream for most girls. The reality is an NHL bench player who never touches the ice makes $1,000,000 and Caitlin Clarke makes $79,000. The ECNL is here for the long term and their business model is wildly improved by SY.

Agreed, for the near future. So ECNL would go SY for girls, while also retaining its spot as top dog. If, BIG IF, someday women's pro soccer becomes lucrative enough, MLS Next Girls or NWSL Next then pops up, doesn't allow HS play, BY cutoffs, and displaces ECNL as the most elite girls league. At that point, ECNL would have no choice but to tip their hat to them, wish them luck, and maintain its spot as a college pathway.

[Guest]

Agreed, for the near future. So ECNL would go SY for girls, while also retaining its spot as top dog. If, BIG IF, someday women's pro soccer becomes lucrative enough, MLS Next Girls or NWSL Next then pops up, doesn't allow HS play, BY cutoffs, and displaces ECNL as the most elite girls league. At that point, ECNL would have no choice but to tip their hat to them, wish them luck, and maintain its spot as a college pathway.

If that happens, they wouldnt care about birth year or school year - they would just use whatever the prevailing convention is. There would be no necessity or dependency either way and there really isnt one for MLS next either. There is some perpetuated myth that BY "is the global way" which simply isnt true. There are lots of things done slightly differently everywhere. For example, many countries in europe have kids stay playing small sided games MUCH longer, yet we rush everyone into 9v9 and 11v11 often a year earlier than even when those leagues start. Germany has their U-little kids play 2v2 and 3v3 games with 2 goals.

[Guest]

also - one radical idea someone had that would be an amazing experiment (it will never happen) would be to have "half year" teams, but the key is that you are always capped at a 50-50 split with rosters with each half year. So you break kids up into BY halves and you play seasons as composite teams Like 1st half odd, second half even in fall BY in the spring as a way to combat RAE.

For example, in fall, you'd have Jan to June 2013s play with July-Dec 2012s, then in spring, you play 1H13 and 2H13 teams. It is messy and clubs wouldnt want to deal with the headache, but it fixes the trapped problem, kind of forces a more normal distribution of birthdays and thus development and also mixes up the "oldest" cohort.

[Guest]

In all the rumors, I don't think I've seen a single one claiming to have an insider account of what MLS Next is thinking. And MLS Next may be the only league with an argument that BY is actually better for them. I have zero other basis for this, but my guess is even if everyone else goes SY, MLS Next stands firm with BY.

I've been wondering about the same thing. At least here in MA, the top clubs on the boys side are in MLS Next. So if MLS stands firm on BY, Bolts, NEFC, IFA, Valeo, Seacoast, and Bayside (not to mention Rev Academy) would all have their top boys team in a BY system. In the east, the MLS teams have their 2nd teams in NAL, which at least in theory is a feeder for the MLS Next program, so those teams would most likely stay BY too. Can't imagine those MLS Next clubs wanting to have a different cutoff for their lower level teams so I don't see any of the MLS Next affiliated clubs going SY unless MLS OK's it and that seems unlikely given their end goal of producing Home Grown pros.

MA clubs have pretty much made the decision to go one way (Boys Clubs on the MLS Next pathway) or the other (Girls Clubs following the ECNL pathway). If an MLS Next club happens to also have a decent girls program (NEFC) they are in GA even though the best girls teams are in ECNL. If a club that has chosen the ECNL pathway has a decent boys team (Stars, Surf), they play in ECNL-/RL even though all the other strong boys teams are in MLS. But around the country there are still some that have both. I guess those clubs could have one date for boys and one for girls, but I doubt there are many that would do that.

We've heard a lot about what ECNL thinks/wants including from their podcast, but from MLS Next it's been quiet. I wonder how much of a say those clubs--or even MLS itself--have in this matter and if people have given that proper consideration in terms of what the final outcome might be.

[Guest]

99% of girls playing club soccer have zero interest in playing professionally. And the girls who do want to play professionally still got to Stanford, UNC, UF, and UCLA before going pro. Women's professional sports are decades from being the dream for most girls. The reality is an NHL bench player who never touches the ice makes $1,000,000 and Caitlin Clarke makes $79,000. The ECNL is here for the long term and their business model is wildly improved by SY.

Professional clubs in Europe have girls side, teams and league, and it just a question of time when the MLS clubs will establish their own. And they dont care about 99%. And girls that will be recruited to top universities will be from that league, I can guaranty you that.

[Guest]

I've been wondering about the same thing. At least here in MA, the top clubs on the boys side are in MLS Next. So if MLS stands firm on BY, Bolts, NEFC, IFA, Valeo, Seacoast, and Bayside (not to mention Rev Academy) would all have their top boys team in a BY system. In the east, the MLS teams have their 2nd teams in NAL, which at least in theory is a feeder for the MLS Next program, so those teams would most likely stay BY too. Can't imagine those MLS Next clubs wanting to have a different cutoff for their lower level teams so I don't see any of the MLS Next affiliated clubs going SY unless MLS OK's it and that seems unlikely given their end goal of producing Home Grown pros.

MA clubs have pretty much made the decision to go one way (Boys Clubs on the MLS Next pathway) or the other (Girls Clubs following the ECNL pathway). If an MLS Next club happens to also have a decent girls program (NEFC) they are in GA even though the best girls teams are in ECNL. If a club that has chosen the ECNL pathway has a decent boys team (Stars, Surf), they play in ECNL-/RL even though all the other strong boys teams are in MLS. But around the country there are still some that have both. I guess those clubs could have one date for boys and one for girls, but I doubt there are many that would do that.

We've heard a lot about what ECNL thinks/wants including from their podcast, but from MLS Next it's been quiet. I wonder how much of a say those clubs--or even MLS itself--have in this matter and if people have given that proper consideration in terms of what the final outcome might be.

the MLS/GA connection is just a holdover from the DA. The more likely reason is that many MLS Next clubs just have really crappy girls programs or they are a bit of an afterthought. Very few clubs do both really well.

[Guest]

Professional clubs in Europe have girls side, teams and league, and it just a question of time when the MLS clubs will establish their own. And they dont care about 99%. And girls that will be recruited to top universities will be from that league, I can guaranty you that.

so what? why does what pro mens clubs in Europe do have any impact on what might happen here? It would be an exercise in charity, but more likely a revenue opportunity and just another pay to play structure

[Guest]

so what? why does what pro mens clubs in Europe do have any impact on what might happen here? It would be an exercise in charity, but more likely a revenue opportunity and just another pay to play structure

How old are you 70, 80? Do you see what's happening around you? It is called public pressure. It is self explanatory.

[Guest]

Professional clubs in Europe have girls side, teams and league, and it just a question of time when the MLS clubs will establish their own. And they dont care about 99%. And girls that will be recruited to top universities will be from that league, I can guaranty you that.

Europe also has universal healthcare and cricket. Neither of those things will be taking America by storm any time soon. Again the ECNL is not going to be supplanted. They offer what the US market wants and nothing is changing that in the near future. So back in reality school year helps the ECNL meet its objective of getting players in front of college coaches at the appropriate time in the recruiting process. Done.

[Guest]

How old are you 70, 80? Do you see what's happening around you? It is called public pressure. It is self explanatory.

But there is absolutely zero public pressure for girls club soccer to mimic European men's soccer. None. Nada. Zip. Participation in club soccer is tanking further isolating kids in academy programs certainly isn't going to stop the bleeding.

[Guest]

99% of girls playing club soccer have zero interest in playing professionally. And the girls who do want to play professionally still got to Stanford, UNC, UF, and UCLA before going pro. Women's professional sports are decades from being the dream for most girls. The reality is an NHL bench player who never touches the ice makes $1,000,000 and Caitlin Clarke makes $79,000. The ECNL is here for the long term and their business model is wildly improved by SY.

Give the full picture. Clark has an 8yr $28 million deal with Nike. As well an endorsements from Wilson, State Farm, Gatorade......

[Guest]

Give the full picture. Clark has an 8yr $28 million deal with Nike. As well an endorsements from Wilson, State Farm, Gatorade......

She is ONE player and her base salary is still less than an elementary school teacher. Women's team sports are a financially losing prospect for 99.9% of players.

[Guest]

Just let MLS next and GA stay birth year and let ECNL and whoever else want to goto school year. In 3-5 years we will know what the better option is. Let the open market decide!