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    Originally posted by beenheredonethat View Post
    I believe that Scorpions are highly responsible for KM becoming the player she is today. Highly responsible. That statement takes nothing away from the player herself or the many people who had a role in her path to success. It also doesn't mean that no other club could have helped transport her to that level (although the list that could is quite short).

    What some seem not to realize is that many factors have to come together for a player to attain such extreme levels of success in soccer and some other sports. It's not simply a matter of having an ill-defined "extreme talent" on your hands. The player needs to be endowed with a certain level of physical ability - that's what usually gets the ball rolling. Not god-like athleticism but a high threshold level. The type of player-mind is extremely influential. Family upbringing and wherewithal plays a huge role. Finally, a club needs to pull everything together through a strong team offering and a coach who connects with the player and is technically competent. The coach needs to understand the mix of traits in the player, at times playing to the strengths and at other times challenging the weaknesses. The long-term goals need to remain front and center

    Not all budding stars have unstoppable drive. Some can actually be quite lazy creating an obvious flop risk at higher levels. Other players are insatiable from an early age and have to be throttled back for rest and rejuvenation in order to realize an inspired style of play. The parents have a role in all of this - an important one. Depending upon the mix of personal traits in the player and family environment an excellent coach will calibrate his own approach to the player.

    This idea that there are "can't miss" special talents out there is utter nonsense. Everybody can miss and the vast majority of "can't miss" kids miss too. Greatness is largely a matter of not being knocked out by a countless succession of things that might derail any athlete at any point in the process. An indomitable will to succeed is great but, sadly, there are many also-rans who have had that. Hollywood doesn't make movies about them.

    It is surely ego-gratifying to claim a spark of special genius as the singular explanation for a very good player's success to date. It's also lazy and/or insincere. The fact is that the recipe for success at increasingly higher levels is a pretty complicated cocktail for which there is no single recipe. But just because there is no single recipe for success doesn't mean there aren't an infinite number of recipes for failure - the player needs to be kept from failure paths by a great coaching plan. That is most reliably done on an excellent team with an excellent staff.

    The player himself, and his collection of personal attributes, is the most essential part of the mix. Then the family habituating additional attributes. Then the club and coaching staff which usually includes a special mentor somewhere along the way - just like success in school, work and other endeavors. Unless a player career is firing on all pistons it is going to be very difficult to get to the promised land. Just being a "great talent" as defined by one's parents is hardly enough.
    Thanks for your excellent post. One can't overstress devotion to the game as the essential factor in a player's success. Earlier this year U.S. Soccer published a charming video interview with the M sisters, in which they describe the "hours and hours" they spent playing 1v1 soccer in the back yard when they were growing up. Imagine how playing every day against KM improved SM's game, and vice-versa!

    Comment


      would agree with BTDT that to be a NT player that a certain level of athleticism, genetics (height/size), and inner drive is absolutely needed but having the right coach that is focused on development, private training, parents involvement and playing in a challenging environment/league

      Comment


        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        The above is probably pretty accurate for "soccer" but not all positions on the soccer field are "soccer". Some roles on the team are unidimensional or can be unidimensional if that dimension is executed well enough. Football has it's place-kickers; baseball has its DHs; basketball has its 3-point artists; soccer has its strikers and keepers. You could never play a game in your life and yet become very proficient at those positions through personal training. You can take all of the "complicated recipe" stuff out of the picture as greatness in those roles is far less reliant on club coach.
        So a good trainer, a few cones, and an empty net are all that you need to turn a talented athlete into a proficient striker? Holy f_____g g0d are you a moron.

        What happens to your trained puppy when he's surrounded by defenders, there's a 6'3" keeper with a 7' wingspan ready to charge out at him if he manages to extricate himself from the pile, he's getting bumped and shoved and grabbed, there's a center back who's just as big and just as fast and has been mauling strikers since he was 8 years old competing for the ball? How's he going to learn to figure out when to play the ball wide, layoff and spin, or find an open teammate?

        You're going to train your keeper to make saves, right? What happens when your Hopeless Soloist has to track an incoming cross with defenders and attackers all around her, or there are two attackers about to beat a single defender and she has to make choices about when to come off her line and how to reduce the attackers' options?

        You may want to re-think your extreme position.

        Comment


          would agree with BTDT that to be a NT player that a certain level of athleticism, genetics (height/size), and inner drive is absolutely needed but having the right coach that is focused on development, private training, parents involvement and playing in a challenging environment/league is also needed.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Let me ask you this question. Lionel Messi went to Barcelona at age 13. If he had come to the US instead to play for DC United as did soccer phenom Freddy Adu, do you think he would have become the player that he is or do you think he'd end up like Freddy?
            Wouldn't you want to use an example where one of the subjects did not become a highly paid professional soccer player?

            At any rate, Freddy is a perfect example of coaching leading a player to a failure path. Immense talent that went nowhere. Think there was a difference in the way Barca brought Leo along? Had Freddy gone to Barca you would be seeing a very different player today. I feel like you are making the OPs point better than he did. Maybe you are him in disguise?

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              So a good trainer, a few cones, and an empty net are all that you need to turn a talented athlete into a proficient striker? Holy f_____g g0d are you a moron.

              What happens to your trained puppy when he's surrounded by defenders, there's a 6'3" keeper with a 7' wingspan ready to charge out at him if he manages to extricate himself from the pile, he's getting bumped and shoved and grabbed, there's a center back who's just as big and just as fast and has been mauling strikers since he was 8 years old competing for the ball? How's he going to learn to figure out when to play the ball wide, layoff and spin, or find an open teammate?

              You're going to train your keeper to make saves, right? What happens when your Hopeless Soloist has to track an incoming cross with defenders and attackers all around her, or there are two attackers about to beat a single defender and she has to make choices about when to come off her line and how to reduce the attackers' options?

              You may want to re-think your extreme position.
              Settle down, hotshot.

              The statement was that one could become "extremely proficient" at those positions without the level of team and coach interaction that is required by the other positions on the field. It does not imply that working out with your older brother and his friends in the backyard is a path to the NT.

              The takeaway is that not all positions on the field require the same level of club / coach input into the mix. There are many places for a keeper to play without taking a hit to her chances of reaching the next level. Would anyone say the same of a central player? Every position on the field can't have EXACTLY the same sensitivity to this factor, can it? Let's be honest, keepers aren't even soccer players - they are keepers. Is a placekicker a football player? Is a coxswain a rower? We love them but let's be honest.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Settle down, hotshot.

                The statement was that one could become "extremely proficient" at those positions without the level of team and coach interaction that is required by the other positions on the field. It does not imply that working out with your older brother and his friends in the backyard is a path to the NT.

                The takeaway is that not all positions on the field require the same level of club / coach input into the mix. There are many places for a keeper to play without taking a hit to her chances of reaching the next level. Would anyone say the same of a central player? Every position on the field can't have EXACTLY the same sensitivity to this factor, can it? Let's be honest, keepers aren't even soccer players - they are keepers. Is a placekicker a football player? Is a coxswain a rower? We love them but let's be honest.
                Easy there Snackshack

                So keepers dont have to know the game or how to receive or give a pass, kick etc. I get it.






                /lost a few cells responding to this person

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Let me ask you this question. Lionel Messi went to Barcelona at age 13. If he had come to the US instead to play for DC United as did soccer phenom Freddy Adu, do you think he would have become the player that he is or do you think he'd end up like Freddy?
                  Bad example. One has a crazy amount of talent; the other was a good athlete. And I won't even get into how old he really is

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    would agree with BTDT that to be a NT player that a certain level of athleticism, genetics (height/size), and inner drive is absolutely needed but having the right coach that is focused on development, private training, parents involvement and playing in a challenging environment/league
                    Height and size? Tell that to Lionel Messi. What it requires is a soccer brain, something you are obviously not familiar.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Wouldn't you want to use an example where one of the subjects did not become a highly paid professional soccer player?

                      At any rate, Freddy is a perfect example of coaching leading a player to a failure path. Immense talent that went nowhere. Think there was a difference in the way Barca brought Leo along? Had Freddy gone to Barca you would be seeing a very different player today. I feel like you are making the OPs point better than he did. Maybe you are him in disguise?
                      No, I want to make a point about the value of the soccer environment one is placed in. Barcelona is in the business of developing youth soccer players who see professional soccer as a career path. They hire coaches who are specifically good at what they do which is teaching the game of soccer. And they should be looked at in that respect. DC United was in no way prepared to teach a youth player what he needs to know at the various levels of his development. Here in the US we have the mistaken belief that simply playing at a high level is all you need to develop players. The fact that so many have criticized American NT players' of both genders lack of techical and tactical ability proves that chasing all over the country for competition isn't enough to change the status quo. And btw the youth players at Barcelona play in leagues that require no more than an hour's travel and often result in double digit routes of their competition. Why has this not affected their ability to produce quality players?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Bad example. One has a crazy amount of talent; the other was a good athlete....
                        Plain silly--and your biases are way too conventional and transparent, BTNT.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Bad example. One has a crazy amount of talent; the other was a good athlete. And I won't even get into how old he really is
                          Obviously you post that in hindsight, but you apparently forget the number of professional European clubs Adu's mother was recieving offers. Would he have been the next Pele as he was being touted at the time? No one can tell, but I think the moral to the story is quite evident. You don't put a kid with potential in an adult environment if you are looking for real development, because you are basically sending a kid with good math skills to university before he's really master the fundamentals of math.

                          Comment


                            Top tier players learn quickly. After being taught something new, they get it and almost instantly and perform it at speed. If not, they don't want to quit until they get it. Every player has certain challenges to overcome, but the ones that succeed overcome them.

                            Players learn from others (coaches), and they learn from themselves (competing). What you get back is what you put into the process.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Top tier players learn quickly. After being taught something new, they get it and almost instantly and perform it at speed. If not, they don't want to quit until they get it. Every player has certain challenges to overcome, but the ones that succeed overcome them.

                              Players learn from others (coaches), and they learn from themselves (competing). What you get back is what you put into the process.
                              Nah, the example of the math whiz going to college before mastering the fundamentals applies to soccer. Even geniuses have to master the fundamentals.They maybe able to do so quicker than the average kid, but they still need some amount of guidance and it helps if the instructor understands the physical and psychological stages of the youth that impact their learning.

                              Comment


                                That's covered under coaching. Second sentence.

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