The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

I happen to agree about the early commitments; however, our college decision experience was completely unlikethe bolded above.

The quote that was objected to stated that player/parents follow coaches all over fields to talk with them. I have never seen that and if you think about it that would be just about the stupidest way to go about the illegal contact referred to as it is pulic. So please don't create another strawman argument about me "saying there is no underage contact" when that was never said. I am also unaware of any rules that prohibit contact based on age - location, method, who calls - yes - but not age.

The entire recruiting process is built upon begging coaches to be interested in your player. They don't typically approach you until you approach them. When you take a step back and people watch at a showcase what was described is precisely what it seems likes. No, parents and coaches are typically not communicating on the sidelines but there is more than enough communication going on out of view if a coach is interested in a player so your statement came across as very disingenuous.

For those who have not been to one yet, when you go to a showcase everyone watches who the manager approaches with the team's handout and tries to count how many coaches are on the sideline. That number is a big part of what everyone focuses on. It becomes like a trophy that many parents brag about. The whole thing is really a charade though because once you get further down the road with the whole process you realize that the number of coaches means nothing, the game is all about convincing the "right" coaches to come see your player. Once you understand that you also realize that the whole showcase thing is just one big distraction for everyone involved. If you cut right to the chase you will be a lot more satisfied with the result.

The sad part is the ones that don't know how to cut to the chase. Those are the ones desperately chasing the coaches as they feel the process passing them by. If you want to see some of that desperation talk to a parent 3-4 days after a major showcase once they realize none of the coaches that attended their games have contacted their team's coach. What that means is none of them are actually interested in their player. That is a very depressing moment that all too many families experience.

[Unregistered]

The entire recruiting process is built upon begging coaches to be interested in your player. They don't typically approach you until you approach them. When you take a step back and people watch at a showcase what was described is precisely what it seems likes. No, parents and coaches are typically not communicating on the sidelines but there is more than enough communication going on out of view if a coach is interested in a player so your statement came across as very disingenuous.

My statement was factual - and not the least disingenous. But thanks for calling me a liar - or should I say big liar (very disingenous) -after you twice rewrote what I said to something else completely.

As for the college chase - I agree that the list of game attendees has taken on undo importance and that it is the "match of college and player" that is important. However, unless the coaches see your kid - either on the field or at a camp - there will be no such "matches". A coach's rolodex can be helpful as well although any implication that that is the only thing that works is untrue in my experience.

It should be possible to write back and forth without having to entirely discredit other posters by rewriting what they've said or calling them liars. If you can't do that then some of us might question the validity of your positions.

[Unregistered]

If a coach or coaches come watch multiple times and actually abide by the NCAA rules then are you really telling us that they are not interested in players because they didn't run to the club coach after. What if they actually do talk to club coaches about a player but still follow the sep 1 guideline. While some will ask the player to visit earlier than sep 1 not all will. Many kids are not ready to make such a decision until jr year. Don't listen to those who try to make you believe only the 'real' players commit ahead. Take your time but don't wait too long.

[Unregistered]

btdt, in regard to your post no. 831, are you prepared to argue that NEFC does no promoting and has no commitments or alumni list?

And Harvard and Yale don't recruit you just because they can get you through admissions. If this was true, more than half of the NESCAC and other elite D3 players would be going there.

Is there any length you won't go to in your efforts to discredit Stars and Scorps? You have really destroyed any remaining credibility you had left.

You are not dialoguing with who you think you are but if it makes you happy to think you are talking to a specific person, knock yourself out.

The elite academic schools have much different needs than other schools. The academic pieces must be substantially in place before you can even think about using the athletic pieces so much of what you are writing doesn't make sense. When you are talking about schools like Ivies and NESCACS the soccer piece is just not as important as you are portraying it.

The only thing that you will find on the NEFC website is a listing of where their alumni went to college. They certainly don't posture their player's accomplishments like a club like Stars. They are a lot more understated in their approach and don't use the success of individual players to sell their product. What they sell is their process. The Stars sell their results. The thing about results is they are open to interpretation so when people like you want to laud those results over other people it begs for a response. You shouldn't be surprised by the challenges because the Stars and NEFC are not the only clubs in Mass nor is NEFC the only club competing with the Stars.

[Unregistered]

My statement was factual - and not the least disingenous. But thanks for calling me a liar - or should I say big liar (very disingenous) -after you twice rewrote what I said to something else completely.

As for the college chase - I agree that the list of game attendees has taken on undo importance and that it is the "match of college and player" that is important. However, unless the coaches see your kid - either on the field or at a camp - there will be no such "matches". A coach's rolodex can be helpful as well although any implication that that is the only thing that works is untrue in my experience.

It should be possible to write back and forth without having to entirely discredit other posters by rewriting what they've said or calling them liars. If you can't do that then some of us might question the validity of your positions.

What is your point then? The intent of the NCAA rules is that recruiting should only start after the 11th grade so everything that is going on is illegal. Clearly recuriting is starting way before the end of the 11th grade and there is all sorts of contact going on. You comments seem as though you are trying to paint a different picture by denying parents and coaches are talking to each other. Technically they aren't but they are most definitely communicating with each other.

[Unregistered]

If a coach or coaches come watch multiple times and actually abide by the NCAA rules then are you really telling us that they are not interested in players because they didn't run to the club coach after. What if they actually do talk to club coaches about a player but still follow the sep 1 guideline. While some will ask the player to visit earlier than sep 1 not all will. Many kids are not ready to make such a decision until jr year. Don't listen to those who try to make you believe only the 'real' players commit ahead. Take your time but don't wait too long.

If a coach is interested they reach right out to the club coach and tell them. The club coach then tells the family. That is how the process works and it is not illegal. If the college coaches are not signalling their interest, they are not really interested that player. Suggesting otherwise is silly. Think about it, if the college coaches are now in such a race for talent that some are contacting kids in their freshman year how can any of them be the least bit successful waiting to tell players know about their interest in them? That is not what is going on. If the club coach doesn't get a phone call pretty much right after the tournament it is a very good indication that the coach is not interested in the player. You can of course get the club coach to call the college coach but then unless they have a good relationship the club coach is not likely to get much information either. Waiting around hoping something happens certainly doesn't work either.

[Unregistered]

What is your point then? The intent of the NCAA rules is that recruiting should only start after the 11th grade so everything that is going on is illegal. Clearly recuriting is starting way before the end of the 11th grade and there is all sorts of contact going on. You comments seem as though you are trying to paint a different picture by denying parents and coaches are talking to each other. Technically they aren't but they are most definitely communicating with each other.

My point was to say that the picture you initally painted of players and parents following coaches around on sidelines waiting for an audience was untrue. I don't have an agenda other than to talk about recruiting as I see it. Not everyone that doesn't agree with you has an agenda.

Please provide backup for the bolded statement above. The NCAA should be perfectly capable of outlawing contact before a certain age or grade level and they have not. Please show us all where there is illegality based on what you've stated and remember that accusing college coaches of illegality is defamation because it is their career. Do remember that even NEFC coaches have prior/other lives as college coaches so if you maintain something is illegal here it will apply to them.

[Unregistered]

My point was to say that the picture you initally painted of players and parents following coaches around on sidelines waiting for an audience was untrue. I don't have an agenda other than to talk about recruiting as I see it. Not everyone that doesn't agree with you has an agenda.

Please provide backup for the bolded statement above. The NCAA should be perfectly capable of outlawing contact before a certain age or grade level and they have not. Please show us all where there is illegality based on what you've stated and remember that accusing college coaches of illegality is defamation because it is their career. Do remember that even NEFC coaches have prior/other lives as college coaches so if you maintain something is illegal here it will apply to them.

Oh come on. You are playing a word game here. If there wasn't a national signing date in the senior year with a specfic timeline you might have an argument. The fact that direct contact can only be started after the 11th grade and an athlete must wait until half way through the senior to legally commits indicates the clear intent. The problem with the situation is no one is adhering to the intent of the rules and they are just giving lip service to enforcement.

No matter how you slice it, the picture is accurate. Parents may not be literally chasing coaches on the sidelines but they certainly are chasing them. The whole showcase premise is built upon players chasing the coaches. The club coach's role in this is not illegal because third party contact has not been made illegal.

[Unregistered]

Oh come on. You are playing a word game here. If there wasn't a national signing date in the senior year with a specfic timeline you might have an argument. The fact that direct contact can only be started after the 11th grade and an athlete must wait until half way through the senior to legally commits indicates the clear intent. The problem with the situation is no one is adhering to the intent of the rules and they are just giving lip service to enforcement.

No matter how you slice it, the picture is accurate. Parents may not be literally chasing coaches on the sidelines but they certainly are chasing them. The whole showcase premise is built upon players chasing the coaches. The club coach's role in this is not illegal because third party contact has not been made illegal.

..meant to say that the club coach's role is not TECHNICALLY illegal. It is however contrary to the clear intent of the rules.

[Unregistered]

btdt, just in case you are actually fooling anyone...

I'm sure there is another poster who slams Stars (especially because you are more worried about them) but also Scorps at evey turn and without fail defends NEFC at every turn, and who just happens to use the exact same language -- "frankly...portrayed...painted...irksome...wha t people fail to realize...the sad part is...typically...whe you take a step back...fail to understand -- and who just happen happen to make the exact same arguments as btdt over and over and over and over, and who just happens to be so interested in the exact same topics, well then, I think we got the right man.

[Unregistered]

Oh come on. You are playing a word game here. If there wasn't a national signing date in the senior year with a specfic timeline you might have an argument. The fact that direct contact can only be started after the 11th grade and an athlete must wait until half way through the senior to legally commits indicates the clear intent. The problem with the situation is no one is adhering to the intent of the rules and they are just giving lip service to enforcement.

No matter how you slice it, the picture is accurate. Parents may not be literally chasing coaches on the sidelines but they certainly are chasing them. The whole showcase premise is built upon players chasing the coaches. The club coach's role in this is not illegal because third party contact has not been made illegal.

Direct contact before 11th grade is not illegal if it is conducted pursuant to the rules. Simply because you want it to be illegal and say it is does not make it so. Phone calls must be initiated by the player and face to face meetings must be on campus.

I think there was at one time a proposed regulation prohibitting using a club coach as an intermediary although I don't know if it was passed or still exists.

[Unregistered]

Oh come on. You are playing a word game here. If there wasn't a national signing date in the senior year with a specfic timeline you might have an argument. The fact that direct contact can only be started after the 11th grade and an athlete must wait until half way through the senior to legally commits indicates the clear intent. The problem with the situation is no one is adhering to the intent of the rules and they are just giving lip service to enforcement.

No matter how you slice it, the picture is accurate. Parents may not be literally chasing coaches on the sidelines but they certainly are chasing them. The whole showcase premise is built upon players chasing the coaches. The club coach's role in this is not illegal because third party contact has not been made illegal.

Different poster here...

You're the one playing games.

If the NCAA's intent was to bar contact between players and coaches before senior year then they would not explicitly allow email contact on Sept 1 of Jr year.

Don't try to read intent into a situation where you really have no inside information into the process - you are making yourself look silly.

[Unregistered]

btdt, just in case you are actually fooling anyone...

I'm sure there is another poster who slams Stars (especially because you are more worried about them) but also Scorps at evey turn and without fail defends NEFC at every turn, and who just happens to use the exact same language -- "frankly...portrayed...painted...irksome...wha t people fail to realize...the sad part is...typically...whe you take a step back...fail to understand -- and who just happen happen to make the exact same arguments as btdt over and over and over and over, and who just happens to be so interested in the exact same topics, well then, I think we got the right man.

I am a Stars parent. Please stop, you are directing attention on to one specific person because you clearly have a personality conflict with them. You have no proof who any anonymous poster is on this forum so your insistence that one specific person is posting is just validating the fairly widely held opinion that the Stars organization is paranoid. Do us all a favor a stop attacking individuals. Anonymous is anonymous and after all you are using it to do a fair amount of attacking yourself. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps if you stopped what you are doing that we wouldn't get as much crap heaped on the rest of us.

[Unregistered]

I am a Stars parent. Please stop, you are directing attention on to one specific person because you clearly have a personality conflict with them. You have no proof who any anonymous poster is on this forum so your insistence that one specific person is posting is just validating the fairly widely held opinion that the Stars organization is paranoid. Do us all a favor a stop attacking individuals. Anonymous is anonymous and after all you are using it to do a fair amount of attacking yourself. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps if you stopped what you are doing that we wouldn't get as much crap heaped on the rest of us.

You can bet that any post that starts with "I am a xxxx parent" does not come form a xxxx parent.

[Unregistered]

You can bet that any post that starts with "I am a xxxx parent" does not come form a xxxx parent.

Regardless of where they come from, they got the idea right. If you want to stop being attacked then stop attacking. There is no actual evidence who any anonymous poster is so calling someone out and attributing posts to them personally just invites more mischief. There is ample evidence of stone throwing on all sides.