MIAA Boys State Tournament

[Unregistered]

From Mass Live:

It was obvious to the casual observer that the center referee wanted Ludlow to win the game and did everything in his power to make that happen. Including “rescinding” two Ludlow red cards (fighting) after consulting with the Ludlow coach and Ludlow AD on the sidelines after the game. What is that all about? Since when have you ever seen a referee rescind a red card (for fighting) on the sidelines after a game? The correct answer is never. There is an MIAA appeals process for these matters and they all circumvented that process. If you spend any time watching youth & HS soccer games, you know and come expect these outcomes for Ludlow soccer. So much for the rule book. Sad, very sad

Sorry Ludlow. While I'm glad you won, it really sux if red cards were given for the fight, as they should, and then taken back. Not a good message for adults to be giving adolesents.

Hello ludlows Coachs father is the referee assignor for western mass. You figure it out

[Unregistered]

Obviously a post from a Ludlow hater or Masco/WN fan. Having been at the game it was obvious that the refs gave the majority of the calls to WN so Im not sure how that helps Ludlow win. They called the game with a minute left due to the fact that they lost control of it and wanted to avoid a bad scene which ended up happening anyway. All the Ludlow haters on this board are classic. So sorry we won again and have been a MA State power for so long. Must be hard for all the greater Boston teams with a much larger talent pool to lose each year to a bunch of "hicks" from W. Mass. Ludlow won again, get over it. You people sound like all those NFL fans who still think the Patriots are cheaters and get all the calls.

How's that 19 year old midfielder for ludlows ? Of course he scores goal in semi and finals he's a man amongst high school boys !! I wonder if he'll try to play next year and violate MIAA rules

[Unregistered]

LOL, I have had some success at tie here and there.... Yep thats something to boast about. So for the most part Ludlow gave you or your team the beatdown. Jealous hater, go whine to MIAA if you have a beef with their decision and stop blaming LHS, the coaches and players.

Nope...not a jealous hater. I was always admiring of the soccer that Ludlow played. They were head and shoulders above us. The fact that I defined success with that team as a 'tie' just shows that we were an inferior high school team. I am secure and comfortable in these facts.

That being said, if their players were issued red-cards in the semifinal of the state cup, then they should not have played in the final game.

I was not at the game, but it sounds like you were...and are obviously a Ludlow fan. So, inform the rest of us; were the two Ludlow players issued Red-Cards in the semi final match? Take you time and answer this without emotion.....just the facts....Y for Yes they got red-carded, and N for No; there were no red-cards.

[Unregistered]

Obviously a post from a Ludlow hater or Masco/WN fan. Having been at the game it was obvious that the refs gave the majority of the calls to WN so Im not sure how that helps Ludlow win. They called the game with a minute left due to the fact that they lost control of it and wanted to avoid a bad scene which ended up happening anyway. All the Ludlow haters on this board are classic. So sorry we won again and have been a MA State power for so long. Must be hard for all the greater Boston teams with a much larger talent pool to lose each year to a bunch of "hicks" from W. Mass. Ludlow won again, get over it. You people sound like all those NFL fans who still think the Patriots are cheaters and get all the calls.

Ummm, who has the bias????

Should red cards been handed out for the fight? Should red cards been handed out for the initial incident between GK and striker? Well, lets see what a total outside observer had to say after watching the clip.

"First, terrible man management by the referee. There's no brawl until he pulls out a card for one player involved (which seems to be the wrong player, anyway) and doesn't seem to sanction the other while allowing lots of people to be milling around and inflame tensions by clapping right next to their opponents. Separate the keeper and the striker before carding (and get to the spot more quickly).

Now, hard to say for sure on the basis of the video, but I can see arguments for either just a foul or a caution to the attacker. I would probably caution him, though, because I don't think he had a reasonable play on the ball or made a very good attempt to avoid contact. But again really hard to tell.

The keeper has to be sent off for violent conduct (or whatever NFHS is calling it these days). That's a send off in a college game (provide the ref sees it), where its really hard to get a red. You can't kick out at an opponent with your studs, especially with the chance of kicking the opponent in the face, which seemed to be the intention of the keeper. This is what USSF calls 100% misconduct, and if the ref sees it, it needs to be a sendoff. From a coaching perspective, this is a really, really stupid thing for a keeper to do in a 1-0 game, and a major flaw if I'm recruiting the keeper. Stay down, get the opponent carded, take your time with the restart. If you're mad, put a big hit on the next player that challenges you for a ball in the air, but don't do something stupid, in the penalty box no less--what if the ref for some reason doesn't call a foul on the attacker--then you've given the opponents an equalizer.

Hard to comment on the choice to abandon given that we're only seeing partial clips.
Agree that both teams should be sanctioned--you shouldn't get a state title after the bench runs onto the field to "help" with the brawl."

[Unregistered]

Clip Doesn't show everything, obviously

I will start by saying I am the father of a Ludlow player and I was at the game. I think the scene at the end of the game was terrible. I stayed at the field through all the chaos until after refs, players, busses, and police left. There will be endless debate about whether and what cards should have been issued. I have my own opinion, but not necessary here.

This is what I saw. Early in game Ref was watching "behind the play" and calling fouls accordingly; both ways but more against North. (you guys can argue if fair or not) As the game went on the Ref just could not keep up with the game. He called nothing behing the play and the AR's were useless. The crew was completely over their head. Many, many actions behind the play went on by both sides.

At the end of the game, everything started with the North player taking out the Ludlow keeper. This was the third time he had been hit. Not justifying, just giving context. As shown in the video, Ref issues a Red to a North player. Don't know why or if same player who hit keeper. North players approach (surround) Ref. Ref calls game. At that point North players rush field from bench and fans rush field form opposite side. Most Ludlow players, except the 4 at the end where everything happened, rushed to mid field to celebrate. When they realized what was going on, the remaining Ludlow players went from mid field to the fracas. If you want to use the video to assess blame, go ahead.

Sorry for the length, but now my point. Any comments or discussion about Red Cards being rescinded for Ludlow players is complete BS. The only Red issued was to the North player. I know he did not pull another Red because he was running to the sidelines with North players swinging at him. I was there, I saw that. Having coached and Refed, I know he could issued a Red after the game. After the game, the Ref met with both coaches and AR's , on sideline for a while. Then the Ref and AR's, both athletic directors, and the tournament director talked in the press box for about 15 minutes. Although some video was available, I don't think they were looking at any. I couldn't tell from field level. We all know the result. No one can say any reds were issued and rescinded. The only one shown was to a North player. So please, find another way, and I'm sure you wil, to diminsh Ludlow's win in the Semi's and State's.

[Unregistered]

I will start by saying I am the father of a Ludlow player and I was at the game. I think the scene at the end of the game was terrible. I stayed at the field through all the chaos until after refs, players, busses, and police left. There will be endless debate about whether and what cards should have been issued. I have my own opinion, but not necessary here.

This is what I saw. Early in game Ref was watching "behind the play" and calling fouls accordingly; both ways but more against North. (you guys can argue if fair or not) As the game went on the Ref just could not keep up with the game. He called nothing behing the play and the AR's were useless. The crew was completely over their head. Many, many actions behind the play went on by both sides.

At the end of the game, everything started with the North player taking out the Ludlow keeper. This was the third time he had been hit. Not justifying, just giving context. As shown in the video, Ref issues a Red to a North player. Don't know why or if same player who hit keeper. North players approach (surround) Ref. Ref calls game. At that point North players rush field from bench and fans rush field form opposite side. Most Ludlow players, except the 4 at the end where everything happened, rushed to mid field to celebrate. When they realized what was going on, the remaining Ludlow players went from mid field to the fracas. If you want to use the video to assess blame, go ahead.

Sorry for the length, but now my point. Any comments or discussion about Red Cards being rescinded for Ludlow players is complete BS. The only Red issued was to the North player. I know he did not pull another Red because he was running to the sidelines with North players swinging at him. I was there, I saw that. Having coached and Refed, I know he could issued a Red after the game. After the game, the Ref met with both coaches and AR's , on sideline for a while. Then the Ref and AR's, both athletic directors, and the tournament director talked in the press box for about 15 minutes. Although some video was available, I don't think they were looking at any. I couldn't tell from field level. We all know the result. No one can say any reds were issued and rescinded. The only one shown was to a North player. So please, find another way, and I'm sure you wil, to diminsh Ludlow's win in the Semi's and State's.

The ref gae a red to another North player for dissent, not that player.

[Unregistered]

Ummm, who has the bias????

Should red cards been handed out for the fight? Should red cards been handed out for the initial incident between GK and striker? Well, lets see what a total outside observer had to say after watching the clip.

"First, terrible man management by the referee. There's no brawl until he pulls out a card for one player involved (which seems to be the wrong player, anyway) and doesn't seem to sanction the other while allowing lots of people to be milling around and inflame tensions by clapping right next to their opponents. Separate the keeper and the striker before carding (and get to the spot more quickly).

Now, hard to say for sure on the basis of the video, but I can see arguments for either just a foul or a caution to the attacker. I would probably caution him, though, because I don't think he had a reasonable play on the ball or made a very good attempt to avoid contact. But again really hard to tell.

The keeper has to be sent off for violent conduct (or whatever NFHS is calling it these days). That's a send off in a college game (provide the ref sees it), where its really hard to get a red. You can't kick out at an opponent with your studs, especially with the chance of kicking the opponent in the face, which seemed to be the intention of the keeper. This is what USSF calls 100% misconduct, and if the ref sees it, it needs to be a sendoff. From a coaching perspective, this is a really, really stupid thing for a keeper to do in a 1-0 game, and a major flaw if I'm recruiting the keeper. Stay down, get the opponent carded, take your time with the restart. If you're mad, put a big hit on the next player that challenges you for a ball in the air, but don't do something stupid, in the penalty box no less--what if the ref for some reason doesn't call a foul on the attacker--then you've given the opponents an equalizer.

Hard to comment on the choice to abandon given that we're only seeing partial clips.
Agree that both teams should be sanctioned--you shouldn't get a state title after the bench runs onto the field to "help" with the brawl."

How in the world that the goalie does not get a card at all in the whole incident justs shows how incompetent the officiating was. First off studs to the face!!!!!! The keeper barely gets touched and he goes studs up to the face. Second, the MIAA has a taunting rule. Watch the video and see the goalie talking trash right behind the ref and just egging North on. As usual, the MIAA buried their head in the sand..............again!!!!!! Not just on this but on so many other situations. They need to have more oversight with their bloody programs and hire not school administrators but sports management majors to run their association.

[Unregistered]

The ref gae a red to another North player for dissent, not that player.

Now that would be funny!!!

[Unregistered]

I will start by saying I am the father of a Ludlow player and I was at the game. I think the scene at the end of the game was terrible. I stayed at the field through all the chaos until after refs, players, busses, and police left. There will be endless debate about whether and what cards should have been issued. I have my own opinion, but not necessary here.

This is what I saw. Early in game Ref was watching "behind the play" and calling fouls accordingly; both ways but more against North. (you guys can argue if fair or not) As the game went on the Ref just could not keep up with the game. He called nothing behing the play and the AR's were useless. The crew was completely over their head. Many, many actions behind the play went on by both sides.

At the end of the game, everything started with the North player taking out the Ludlow keeper. This was the third time he had been hit. Not justifying, just giving context. As shown in the video, Ref issues a Red to a North player. Don't know why or if same player who hit keeper. North players approach (surround) Ref. Ref calls game. At that point North players rush field from bench and fans rush field form opposite side. Most Ludlow players, except the 4 at the end where everything happened, rushed to mid field to celebrate. When they realized what was going on, the remaining Ludlow players went from mid field to the fracas. If you want to use the video to assess blame, go ahead.

Sorry for the length, but now my point. Any comments or discussion about Red Cards being rescinded for Ludlow players is complete BS. The only Red issued was to the North player. I know he did not pull another Red because he was running to the sidelines with North players swinging at him. I was there, I saw that. Having coached and Refed, I know he could issued a Red after the game. After the game, the Ref met with both coaches and AR's , on sideline for a while. Then the Ref and AR's, both athletic directors, and the tournament director talked in the press box for about 15 minutes. Although some video was available, I don't think they were looking at any. I couldn't tell from field level. We all know the result. No one can say any reds were issued and rescinded. The only one shown was to a North player. So please, find another way, and I'm sure you wil, to diminsh Ludlow's win in the Semi's and State's.

All players who were fighting should have seen red cards. That should be automatic. GK should have seen red for retaliation. That should have been automatic. I can't comment on contact with Ludlow GK beyond what was shown and the contact on the part of the Worc N striker was not a red card. At most a yellow and that for persistent infringement if there indeed was additional incidents of contact between this player and the GK. As was shown in the most recent clip, contact was occurring at both ends of the field. CR should have taken care of it a lot sooner then the last 2 minutes of the game. These officials blew it and I suspect that the reason the game was called is because the CR was concerned about being a white guy surrounded by a group of big athletic black inner city kids. He may not be consciously racist, but I'm sure he was scared.

[Unregistered]

Now that would be funny!!!

Watch the video, he gives a red to another player for dissent.

[ForzaAzzurri]

How in the world that the goalie does not get a card at all in the whole incident justs shows how incompetent the officiating was. First off studs to the face!!!!!! The keeper barely gets touched and he goes studs up to the face. Second, the MIAA has a taunting rule. Watch the video and see the goalie talking trash right behind the ref and just egging North on. As usual, the MIAA buried their head in the sand..............again!!!!!! Not just on this but on so many other situations. They need to have more oversight with their bloody programs and hire not school administrators but sports management majors to run their association.

I hate to get drawn into this discussion, and without judgement on the competence of the officials, but based on the forward's slightly angled position in front of the keeper at the moment the keeper springs up feet first, the Center Referee would likely have been screened if he were running with the play in the manner that referees are taught in a 3-man system (i.e., diagonally...from the "corner" on the right side of one keeper to the "corner" on the right side of the other keeper). In other words, he would have been behind and slightly to the right of the forward (and moreover quite a bit upfield judging by the high bounce of the ball as it arrived at the goal line).

In addition, the AR on that half of the field (the Ludlow half) would have been on the keeper's left side, so I'm guessing at least 45-48 yards away from the spot of the incident. Therefore none of the officials would have had the advantageous perspective or proximity to the play that the videographer had, and even with the benefit of video/replay, one has to admit that it is not readily conclusive that the keeper actually made contact with the forward's head or other part of his body.

That said, I agree with the majority of posters in the various threads about this incident: (based on the video) yellow to the forward and red to the keeper, as whether or not he made contact is irrelevant...he at the least attempted to strike an opponent. Also, unless it was a case of persistent infringement, I would have given the yellow only because I was also giving the red...if the keeper had not done what he did to "earn" the red and simply walked away, then I would have seen the forward's action as not much different that any other 50-50 encounter...it was clear (to me) that he did his best to avoid the keeper---once he realized he had no shot at gaining possession---but his momentum carried him forward and that resulted in what was essentially an "excuse me" follow-through non-dangerous contact (I saw multiple worse "collisions" at each of three U10 games yesterday alone as a result of forwards pursuing loose balls inside the box that were corraled by keepers coming off the line).

[Unregistered]

I hate to get drawn into this discussion, and without judgement on the competence of the officials, but based on the forward's slightly angled position in front of the keeper at the moment the keeper springs up feet first, the Center Referee would likely have been screened if he were running with the play in the manner that referees are taught in a 3-man system (i.e., diagonally...from the "corner" on the right side of one keeper to the "corner" on the right side of the other keeper). In other words, he would have been behind and slightly to the right of the forward (and moreover quite a bit upfield judging by the high bounce of the ball as it arrived at the goal line).

In addition, the AR on that half of the field (the Ludlow half) would have been on the keeper's left side, so I'm guessing at least 45-48 yards away from the spot of the incident. Therefore none of the officials would have had the advantageous perspective or proximity to the play that the videographer had, and even with the benefit of video/replay, one has to admit that it is not readily conclusive that the keeper actually made contact with the forward's head or other part of his body.

That said, I agree with the majority of posters in the various threads about this incident: (based on the video) yellow to the forward and red to the keeper, as whether or not he made contact is irrelevant...he at the least attempted to strike an opponent. Also, unless it was a case of persistent infringement, I would have given the yellow only because I was also giving the red...if the keeper had not done what he did to "earn" the red and simply walked away, then I would have seen the forward's action as not much different that any other 50-50 encounter...it was clear (to me) that he did his best to avoid the keeper---once he realized he had no shot at gaining possession---but his momentum carried him forward and that resulted in what was essentially an "excuse me" follow-through non-dangerous contact (I saw multiple worse "collisions" at each of three U10 games yesterday alone as a result of forwards pursuing loose balls inside the box that were corraled by keepers coming off the line).

Sorry but I can't see how any of the 3 officials missed the keeper trying to kick the player in the face.............that is just too hard to miss regardless of the video angle versus the officials angle. The CR had to be out of position as well as the lead linesman. Awful.

[Unregistered]

I hate to get drawn into this discussion, and without judgement on the competence of the officials, but based on the forward's slightly angled position in front of the keeper at the moment the keeper springs up feet first, the Center Referee would likely have been screened if he were running with the play in the manner that referees are taught in a 3-man system (i.e., diagonally...from the "corner" on the right side of one keeper to the "corner" on the right side of the other keeper). In other words, he would have been behind and slightly to the right of the forward (and moreover quite a bit upfield judging by the high bounce of the ball as it arrived at the goal line).

In addition, the AR on that half of the field (the Ludlow half) would have been on the keeper's left side, so I'm guessing at least 45-48 yards away from the spot of the incident. Therefore none of the officials would have had the advantageous perspective or proximity to the play that the videographer had, and even with the benefit of video/replay, one has to admit that it is not readily conclusive that the keeper actually made contact with the forward's head or other part of his body.

That said, I agree with the majority of posters in the various threads about this incident: (based on the video) yellow to the forward and red to the keeper, as whether or not he made contact is irrelevant...he at the least attempted to strike an opponent. Also, unless it was a case of persistent infringement, I would have given the yellow only because I was also giving the red...if the keeper had not done what he did to "earn" the red and simply walked away, then I would have seen the forward's action as not much different that any other 50-50 encounter...it was clear (to me) that he did his best to avoid the keeper---once he realized he had no shot at gaining possession---but his momentum carried him forward and that resulted in what was essentially an "excuse me" follow-through non-dangerous contact (I saw multiple worse "collisions" at each of three U10 games yesterday alone as a result of forwards pursuing loose balls inside the box that were corraled by keepers coming off the line).

This is reasonable, without a competent eyewitness to fill in the blanks.

But, I could also imagine a few other wrinkles.
The temperature of many games demands a yellow for "accidentally" running into the keeper. In those games, it would be a HUGE refereeing mistake to not be as close as physically possible as these 2 came together, precisely to put out such a fire.

Although I cannot forgive what the keeper did, if this were the case, I could certainly understand it. If I were the ref (having a really bad day???) I might be able to talk myself into just giving him a yellow (basically blaming myself for letting it get that far). But it's a REAL stretch.

[Unregistered]

Hello ludlows Coachs father is the referee assignor for western mass. You figure it out

Folks, Ludlow won the state title.....again. Move on and stop the whining. Coaches father, poor refs fixing games, dirty play, overage players...... whats next steroid use??? Typical responses from most probably losing programs with jealous fans.

[Unregistered]

Folks, Ludlow won the state title.....again. Move on and stop the whining. Coaches father, poor refs fixing games, dirty play, overage players...... whats next steroid use??? Typical responses from most probably losing programs with jealous fans.

And that state title is tarnished by the fact that the semis were poorly officiated. Under better officiating Worcester North may have advanced. Who knows? That's something you Ludlow fans are going to have to live with - the whispers that will always be out there that you may not have deserved to even have made it out of the semis. Sux to be you.