Dismal NEP league Refs - RED & YELLOWS

[Unregistered]

It's NOT just a coaching issue. The center ref at every level has tremendous leeway in deciding what will be tolerated and what won't be. In every sport at every level, the competitors will attempt to gain any advantage they can get away with, if only because they get caught up in the heat of the moment. If you keep score, people want to win. Ever try to convince 5 or 6 year olds that there's no winner in their game? If thuggish play is tolerated by the match officials and if it helps to win a game (and it can very quickly narrow a gap in skill), the players will inevitably play that way.

This thread is insane. After 5 years an official I have learned:

1) The losing team thinks you did a lousy job
2) The winning team thinks you did a great job
3) If you call a game tight you are not "letting them play"
4) If you let them play you are "letting things get out of control"
5) No male player over the age of 14 thinks they have committed a foul when they are not in possession of the ball.
6) Every male player over the age of 14 believes that while in possession that they are fouled every time they have possession
7) attitude in #5 and #6 are learned directly from coaches and parents

My response? Shut the hell up and watch the game. I don't care what the parents think and I don't care what the coaches think. I have one concern and that is that the game is played fairly and safely and that I hustle and do my best to apply the LOTG while maintaining flow and adhering the to spirit of the game.

If that is not good enough for you go get your damned patch but please just SHUT UP.

[Unregistered]

Sorry, I still disagree. Referees that swallow their whistles or blow it too often do nothing for the game. MLS maybe getting better, but to me it looks like roller derby on grass with a ball. That is the fault of the officials. And then we wonder why Spain kicks the US bench's ***? Ever see the difference between the way they call the games in La Liga compared to the EPL? Officiating dictates the style of play.

MLS = roller derby on grass
EPL = fast and physical
La Liga = technical soccer

I am strictly talking about Youth soccer. If you want to talk about Refereeing Pro matches, that is another subject entirely.

Ever see the difference in the skill set of players in La Liga compared to the US ?

The style of play dictates the type of Officiating required. You only get to realize this after being a Referee for a long time, doing matches from Young children to older men.

[Unregistered]

This thread is insane. After 5 years an official I have learned:

1) The losing team thinks you did a lousy job
2) The winning team thinks you did a great job
3) If you call a game tight you are not "letting them play"
4) If you let them play you are "letting things get out of control"
5) No male player over the age of 14 thinks they have committed a foul when they are not in possession of the ball.
6) Every male player over the age of 14 believes that while in possession that they are fouled every time they have possession
7) attitude in #5 and #6 are learned directly from coaches and parents

My response? Shut the hell up and watch the game. I don't care what the parents think and I don't care what the coaches think. I have one concern and that is that the game is played fairly and safely and that I hustle and do my best to apply the LOTG while maintaining flow and adhering the to spirit of the game.

If that is not good enough for you go get your damned patch but please just SHUT UP.

LOL
Not bad. Not bad.

I've got a few years on you, and I agree with almost everything.
Except for the "Shut up" part.

Fans are fans. They shouldn't have to pretend they are at a funeral.
And that includes yelling at the ref, so long as it doesn't negatively influence the game.
It's part of the show.
Have fun.

[Unregistered]

It's NOT just a coaching issue. The center ref at every level has tremendous leeway in deciding what will be tolerated and what won't be. In every sport at every level, the competitors will attempt to gain any advantage they can get away with, if only because they get caught up in the heat of the moment. If you keep score, people want to win. Ever try to convince 5 or 6 year olds that there's no winner in their game? If thuggish play is tolerated by the match officials and if it helps to win a game (and it can very quickly narrow a gap in skill), the players will inevitably play that way.

Perhaps your perspective is only based on expereince with athletic endeavors where there is a score, a standing , something other than self improvement , growth and development.

" caught up in theheat of the moment"

A general term, but not applicablke equally over various levels, ages and maturity levels. 5 or 6 year olds are only conditioned to the environment that you have set up for them. They are not mature enough to strategize, think beyond a limited spectrum of reasoning and application. I can teach a 5 or 6 year old to execute a technique correctly and effectively without the goal of winning. When you intriduce winning to immature children, you complicate the process, and may take away the emphasis on the actual skill building.

Thuggish play mostly occurs do to a deficiency in the coping mechanism of the athlete.

[Unregistered]

Sorry, I still disagree. Referees that swallow their whistles or blow it too often do nothing for the game. MLS maybe getting better, but to me it looks like roller derby on grass with a ball. That is the fault of the officials. And then we wonder why Spain kicks the US bench's ***? Ever see the difference between the way they call the games in La Liga compared to the EPL? Officiating dictates the style of play.

MLS = roller derby on grass
EPL = fast and physical
La Liga = technical soccer

I have 4 friends that currently ref pro in the US (2 MLS and 2 WPS). At a recent "meeting" (free beer) they ALL lamented how much input they get from the league as to how the games should be refereed. I'm not talking about input for USSF or FIFA. This is input directly from the league, about individual games!

btw, even b4 the current raft of broken bones, in MLS it's much more frequent that refs are given instructions to protect players rather than to let things get physical.

[Unregistered]

LOL
Not bad. Not bad.

I've got a few years on you, and I agree with almost everything.
Except for the "Shut up" part.

Fans are fans. They shouldn't have to pretend they are at a funeral.
And that includes yelling at the ref, so long as it doesn't negatively influence the game.
It's part of the show.
Have fun.

I say SHUT UP because it does not do them any good. I tune them out. The fans yelling has as much impact as the crows in the trees making noise. I guess if it makes them feel better that it is ok but I don't see the point in yelling at the officials but that is just me.

I forgot one by the way.

#8) Call it both ways means call more fouls on the other team.

[Unregistered]

This thread is insane....My response? Shut the hell up and watch the game. I don't care what the parents think and I don't care what the coaches think. I have one concern and that is that the game is played fairly and safely and that I hustle and do my best to apply the LOTG while maintaining flow and adhering the to spirit of the game.

If that is not good enough for you go get your damned patch but please just SHUT UP.

My response? Shut the hell up and watch the game. I don't care what the parents think and I don't care what the coaches think. I have one concern and that is that the game is played fairly and safely and that I hustle and do my best to apply the LOTG while maintaining flow and adhering the to spirit of the game.

If that is not good enough for you go get your damned patch but please just SHUT UP.[/QUOTE]

Over the past decade and a half (coaching, officiating and administering leagues), I have come across a very large number poorly qualified, self-important grade 8 refs who haven't a clue about what it takes to PLAY the game. Interestingly, when my kids AR they can instantly tell if the center ever played or not. If you haven't at least played at high school level, I don't personally think you can have a clue about the "spirit of the game" as you attempt to apply the LOTG.

Unfortunately, premier teams make little if any effort to encourage their senior players to take the excellent courses that the MSRC offers. I think this is sad, because officiating offers a terrific way to stay involved in the game for older teens.

PS -- I absolutely disagree that parents or players have a right to yell at the match officials and without any question, the ones that yell the loudest are almost always the ones who know the least about the rules.

[Unregistered]

LOL
Not bad. Not bad.

I've got a few years on you, and I agree with almost everything.
Except for the "Shut up" part.

Fans are fans. They shouldn't have to pretend they are at a funeral.
And that includes yelling at the ref, so long as it doesn't negatively influence the game.
It's part of the show.
Have fun.

This isn't a pro game, where acting like an ass is encouraged. Fans (Parents?) should be role models for their children and the parents who can't be a positive influence on the side line should be asked to leave.

This one simple step would do more to improve the percieved officiating quality than any 100 officiating classes. Parents on the sideline develop a group think / mob mentality.

Each call or no call can only go one way. If their team is coming out on the short end of the calls they get eachother worked up. If the other team is coming out on the short end, the other team's parents get's the other team's parent's worked up.

The more worked up the parent's are the worse the preceived officiating quality.

[Unregistered]

This isn't a pro game, where acting like an ass is encouraged. Fans (Parents?) should be role models for their children and the parents who can't be a positive influence on the side line should be asked to leave.

This one simple step would do more to improve the percieved officiating quality than any 100 officiating classes. Parents on the sideline develop a group think / mob mentality.

Each call or no call can only go one way. If their team is coming out on the short end of the calls they get eachother worked up. If the other team is coming out on the short end, the other team's parents get's the other team's parent's worked up.

The more worked up the parent's are the worse the preceived officiating quality.

A lot of truth to this statement. A LOT!!!!!!!

[Unregistered]

My response? Shut the hell up and watch the game. I don't care what the parents think and I don't care what the coaches think. I have one concern and that is that the game is played fairly and safely and that I hustle and do my best to apply the LOTG while maintaining flow and adhering the to spirit of the game.

If that is not good enough for you go get your damned patch but please just SHUT UP.

Over the past decade and a half (coaching, officiating and administering leagues), I have come across a very large number poorly qualified, self-important grade 8 refs who haven't a clue about what it takes to PLAY the game. Interestingly, when my kids AR they can instantly tell if the center ever played or not. If you haven't at least played at high school level, I don't personally think you can have a clue about the "spirit of the game" as you attempt to apply the LOTG.

Unfortunately, premier teams make little if any effort to encourage their senior players to take the excellent courses that the MSRC offers. I think this is sad, because officiating offers a terrific way to stay involved in the game for older teens.

PS -- I absolutely disagree that parents or players have a right to yell at the match officials and without any question, the ones that yell the loudest are almost always the ones who know the least about the rules.[/QUOTE]

I have no idea whether the players are aware of my playing experience. In some cases it is important but not nearly as much as you might think. Similarly I think the better players actually make the worst coaches and officials. Some experience is important and perhaps HS play is enough. I have played the game at a modest level for 40+ years but really I don't know if that shows. I think it does give me a better feel for what the players need on the field. Unfortunately many of them are not mature enough to make that connection. I am not talking just about youth players here. The maturity level of adult males in leagues is not much better than the fans on the sidelines. More than anything else it is a lack of perspective. Playing soccer as an adult is supposed to be fun yet I see far too many players who look miserable on the field. It is pretty said that on occassion as the CR that I am the one enjoying the experience more than half the players are.

I think this stems from the fact that this society deems losing to be failure. In reality the two are only distantly related. Failure is an inherent component of sports. In both winning and losing.