Needham Girls HS Hazing

[Unregistered]

Dude, did you read what you posted? It says it's only "hazing" if it "endangers the physical or mental health" of the student. I don't think its very likely that putting on a dog collar and getting a pie in the face does either. Verdict: NOT A CRIME.

Not so sure. Isn't a bloody nose a reflection of your physical health being endangered?

[Unregistered]

Not so sure. Isn't a bloody nose a reflection of your physical health being endangered?

no ... its a bloody nose ... half the time when people get bloody noses its random and over nothing .... stupid post

[Unregistered]

Dude, did you read what you posted? It says it's only "hazing" if it "endangers the physical or mental health" of the student. I don't think its very likely that putting on a dog collar and getting a pie in the face does either. Verdict: NOT A CRIME.

Really? Maybe being paraded around on a leash, blindfolded and wearing a dog collar is your idea of fun, but please don't assume that everyone enjoys your proclivities. Many young adults would find this deeply humiliating and have lasting consequences, even if you and your children look upon this behavior as business as usual. Your values, thankfully, are not everyone's values.

[Unregistered]

Really? Maybe being paraded around on a leash, blindfolded and wearing a dog collar is your idea of fun, but please don't assume that everyone enjoys your proclivities. Many young adults would find this deeply humiliating and have lasting consequences, even if you and your children look upon this behavior as business as usual. Your values, thankfully, are not everyone's values.

Pardon me - I suspect that indeed you are a student. If you are a parent or other adult who begins their posts with "Dude" I guess I understand your values a little better now.

[Unregistered]

Really? Maybe being paraded around on a leash, blindfolded and wearing a dog collar is your idea of fun, but please don't assume that everyone enjoys your proclivities. Many young adults would find this deeply humiliating and have lasting consequences, even if you and your children look upon this behavior as business as usual. Your values, thankfully, are not everyone's values.

I think it depends on the circumstances as to whether it could be said to "endanger mental health". The law says that consent is not a defense, but consent is somewhat relevant to whether the activity is mentally traumatizing. If the kids didn't mind getting hazed, then it would not endanger their mental health and it would not be "hazing" under the statute. On the other hand, if it was done forceably to someone, I could see how that could be traumatizing.

[Unregistered]

You parents who think this is a non-event and funny, youthful play, and/or in the normal course of growing up, and who are condemning our "wimpified" society, are a disgrace. You would laugh and high five your daughter's participation in an activity clearly designed to humiliate younger students (sorry, but carrying the ball bag isn't even close). With the attitude you have, it's no wonder your kids think this kind of thing is a-ok; I'd be absolutely furious if my daughter even thought about something like this as a team leader. And I'd take the blame for raising a kid who thought it was okay too.

I am among those that think both the seniors involved and the coach should be appropriately punished and it seems the school has already taken care of that. I am among those that think the parents who tried to avoid the punishment by taking this to court aren't doing their kids any favors. I am also among those that think the reason you have to come down on these kids is to avoid any future escalation of hazing incidents. But having said that, you come across to me as a bit hysterical. What these kids did is what kids tend to do - stupid things. The school should punish them. Their parents should punish them, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. The freshman will survive their "humiliation".

"That which does not kill me makes me stronger."

[dd2]

Dude, did you read what you posted? It says it's only "hazing" if it "endangers the physical or mental health" of the student. I don't think its very likely that putting on a dog collar and getting a pie in the face does either. Verdict: NOT A CRIME.

I am not so sure that courts would conclude that the Needham incident isn't hazing. If the victim of the behavior claims that her physical or mental health was endangered, why should someone else's opinion control? One victim did suffer a bloody nose. If the blow had been harder, her nose could have been broken. Doesn't that show her health was endangered? Also, I don't think it will be too hard to find a children's mental health expert who will testify under oath that such treatment does endanger the mental health of its victims.

[Unregistered]

Really? Maybe being paraded around on a leash, blindfolded and wearing a dog collar is your idea of fun, but please don't assume that everyone enjoys your proclivities. Many young adults would find this deeply humiliating and have lasting consequences, even if you and your children look upon this behavior as business as usual. Your values, thankfully, are not everyone's values.

Deeply humiliating? Lasting consequences? Unless this is evidence of an ongoing case of bullying, please, don't turn this into something it isn't.

[Unregistered]

People seem to be having a hard time with the “dual” use of the term “hazing”. In its simplest form the term is the description of a crime in Massachusetts. It is a misdemeanor( because the penalty is up to a year in the House of Correction). That means that you would be prosecuted in District Court under an arraignment and not in Superior Court for a felony under an indictment. The Statute (which has been posted numerous times here) contains specific elements that the prosecutor must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, to gain a conviction. The threshold for arrest and arraignment is probable cause, and the police/ Norfolk County DA could determine that enough evidence exists and seek an arrest warrant from a Clerk Magistrate. In this respect , the term “hazing” is akin to other terms for crimes like second degree murder, vehicular homicide or OUI. It carries very specific meaning and serious consequences if enough evidence exists for a charge to be brought. Also, a person is considered to be an adult at 17 in these criminal matters.

There is also the more colloquial term “hazing” which may mean all kinds of things and have various other applications. People can have their own personal view of what constitutes this type of “hazing” but it should not be confused or substituted for the crime of Hazing as defined in the Statute.

We do not have nearly enough facts to determine if the police will seek to arrest or if any of these participants will/could be charged with a crime. People should avoid believeing speculation and rumor when it comes to these types of issues. We are all entitled to opinions, but they are valueless. Ultimately it will be the District Attorney that decides whether to pursue this. The DA has broad prosecutorial discretion and publicity and politics do play a part in their decisions.

[Unregistered]

I am among those that think both the seniors involved and the coach should be appropriately punished and it seems the school has already taken care of that. I am among those that think the parents who tried to avoid the punishment by taking this to court aren't doing their kids any favors. I am also among those that think the reason you have to come down on these kids is to avoid any future escalation of hazing incidents. But having said that, you come across to me as a bit hysterical. What these kids did is what kids tend to do - stupid things. The school should punish them. Their parents should punish them, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. The freshman will survive their "humiliation".

"That which does not kill me makes me stronger."

I disagree. Every HS has the benefit of some "education" on this topic, whereas students decades ago did not. With all of the efforts in schools regarding anti-bullying, its obvious that this group callously disregarded all the information they had.

FYI - these aren't kids. Some HS seniors are eighteen. In case you haven't noticed, children as young as 12-13 have been tried as adults. Kids will be kids doesn't wash.

[Unregistered]

Deeply humiliating? Lasting consequences? Unless this is evidence of an ongoing case of bullying, please, don't turn this into something it isn't.

People of certain religious and cultural backgrounds could have enormous issues with this. Please have an open mind and understand that your feelings do not necessarily define a cultural norm.

[Unregistered]

Deeply humiliating? Lasting consequences? Unless this is evidence of an ongoing case of bullying, please, don't turn this into something it isn't.

You really think this group of upperclassmen treated them like peers all season and just started hazing at the end of the season? If so, I have some land for sale I would like you to take a look at.....

[Unregistered]

People of certain religious and cultural backgrounds could have enormous issues with this. Please have an open mind and understand that your feelings do not necessarily define a cultural norm.

Religious and cultural backgrounds? You are kidding, right?

[Unregistered]

I disagree. Every HS has the benefit of some "education" on this topic, whereas students decades ago did not. With all of the efforts in schools regarding anti-bullying, its obvious that this group callously disregarded all the information they had.

FYI - these aren't kids. Some HS seniors are eighteen. In case you haven't noticed, children as young as 12-13 have been tried as adults. Kids will be kids doesn't wash.

This is NOT a case of bullying. Bullying is defined as "repeated acts over time to create or enforce one group or person's power over another". Unless you have evidence that these kids have been picked on throughout the season, there is nothing that would make me think that this was anything more than a single incident. Should the seniors known better? Yes they should, but they are not adults, and unlikely to connect what they've learned about bullying to what they did in this incident. Why? Because I doubt they felt any animosity toward the freshman and only looked at it as a high school rite of passage. One could probably assume that the same was done to them as freshman and unless the school and coach have made a strong case against it in the past, there is no reason to assume that the adolescent brain thought what they were doing was harmful or anything more than a joke. I'm sure they and their classmates will all take hazing more seriously following the consequences of this behavior.

[Unregistered]

Agreed, that's why I recommended that people read "The Lottery."

Yes, I was a Psych/Sociology major.

I wasn't, but I, like practically everyone I know, has read that short story. And everyone who hasn't should.