Oakwood

[Unregistered]

Listen, much of what you said may be correct, BUT, much like Nike, they dont care what you think or say. I don't have a dog in this fight, I just study the systems and its already done.

The DA system is the system supported by US Soccer. ECNL is no different than CJSA to them.

You think when Nike first started making cleats they were the best? No, are they now, no, are they the largest seller of cleats on the planet, yes. Same for VW, crummly little brand back in the sixties..... now it owns Porsche and VW, I thnk it may be the largest manufacturer of cars period. Dont really care, but you get the point.

Dont try and be a smart person unless you look forward. If you look at the now, or look back, you are a fool.

US Soccer has spoken and what can the other competing brands say? they have to reinvest and become an even better and boutique like niche, (like Nike, yu cant compete with them pound for pound, you cant) where people go for a certain theing.

The current ECNL teams are established and will remain dominant, ok, stop yelling about it, everyone sees it and hears it, everyone knows. Its the U13 and under where the battlefield will be held, and DA will win over time. It only takes a few highly publicized MLS placements in the next few years and all bets are off. As it has been said before, do you really think MLS clubs cant be influenced to grab DA kids, you are delusional and are a believer of a meritocracy? They (MLS Clubs) currently have to field free boys academy teams, the DA (US Soccer) can have them do what ever they want. Its true, don't try to fight it.

It already happened and you don't even know it. If your kid is in ECNL right now, great for them, thats awesome, but lets come back and talk about the 2010's in 6 years.

Nike did not come out with guns blazing and offer poor-quality sneakers at top dollar prices (see BBB for this ... note how differently they turn out). GDA came out and is selling an inferior product at top dollar and making kids invest more than they have to in comparison with ECNL. Many did not bite and some that did try found out the hard way that it was just NPL teams and coaches with a new label, a higher commitment, and a higher cost ..... but still just a bunch of NPL-level teams for the most part sprinkled in with a few very good teams and scores of really bad teams that could not have made even an NPL league. Again, GDA was poorly thought out and modeled after a failing Boys DA league but without the resources of MLS academies to fund them. It was also rolled out far too broadly which impacted the quality of ECNL and drastically impacted the quality of GDA. When things weren't working, they adopted even more likeness to ECNL (multiple games on a weekend and the concept of waivers). US Soccer doesn't know where to look (back, forward or any other direction) and this is the issue. They should not be in the business of running leagues. They should be busy looking for players of all ages and managing the NTs of all ages. They have already bitten off far more than they could chew with that task alone .... then add in DA and now GDA. They are glancing off iceberg after iceberg and have no plans to slow their sinking ship down and take honest stock of their own faults. If any of you think our men can not compete with the rest of the world and dominate, then get out now. We just need to think outside the box. If Iceland, Russia, or Croatia can do it once, how come we never can???? We can, but we have to have better talent identification and stop pretending our cute little DA league can compete with what the rest of the world can offer. After all, isn't what the DA is selling? It's a profit-making reuse for them and it needs to stop. Let the players sort themselves out and rise to the top .

[Unregistered]

Iceland puts real financial support behind its program and can reap financial payoff from finding and selling soccer talent like many places that win internationally. Why do we think we can find and train the best talent we have in a fundamentaly different way from the rest? We love soccer but we don't buy and sell kids.

[Unregistered]

Iceland puts real financial support behind its program and can reap financial payoff from finding and selling soccer talent like many places that win internationally. Why do we think we can find and train the best talent we have in a fundamentaly different way from the rest? We love soccer but we don't buy and sell kids.

And we probably never will. If clubs have more incentive to develop players for profit they'll invest more to get there. But that's not a part of our culture and probably never will be. With that can come costs to the players as well - abroad most kids sing with clubs by 16 and school is an afterthought. Not many American parents are willing to do that - too much risk, not enough reward.

[Unregistered]

Nike did not come out with guns blazing and offer poor-quality sneakers at top dollar prices (see BBB for this ... note how differently they turn out). GDA came out and is selling an inferior product at top dollar and making kids invest more than they have to in comparison with ECNL. Many did not bite and some that did try found out the hard way that it was just NPL teams and coaches with a new label, a higher commitment, and a higher cost ..... but still just a bunch of NPL-level teams for the most part sprinkled in with a few very good teams and scores of really bad teams that could not have made even an NPL league. Again, GDA was poorly thought out and modeled after a failing Boys DA league but without the resources of MLS academies to fund them. It was also rolled out far too broadly which impacted the quality of ECNL and drastically impacted the quality of GDA. When things weren't working, they adopted even more likeness to ECNL (multiple games on a weekend and the concept of waivers). US Soccer doesn't know where to look (back, forward or any other direction) and this is the issue. They should not be in the business of running leagues. They should be busy looking for players of all ages and managing the NTs of all ages. They have already bitten off far more than they could chew with that task alone .... then add in DA and now GDA. They are glancing off iceberg after iceberg and have no plans to slow their sinking ship down and take honest stock of their own faults. If any of you think our men can not compete with the rest of the world and dominate, then get out now. We just need to think outside the box. If Iceland, Russia, or Croatia can do it once, how come we never can???? We can, but we have to have better talent identification and stop pretending our cute little DA league can compete with what the rest of the world can offer. After all, isn't what the DA is selling? It's a profit-making reuse for them and it needs to stop. Let the players sort themselves out and rise to the top .

Our 02/03 can play against any ECNL team, including So Cal Blues, too bad they will never get a chance

[Unregistered]

Nike did not come out with guns blazing and offer poor-quality sneakers at top dollar prices (see BBB for this ... note how differently they turn out). GDA came out and is selling an inferior product at top dollar and making kids invest more than they have to in comparison with ECNL. Many did not bite and some that did try found out the hard way that it was just NPL teams and coaches with a new label, a higher commitment, and a higher cost ..... but still just a bunch of NPL-level teams for the most part sprinkled in with a few very good teams and scores of really bad teams that could not have made even an NPL league. Again, GDA was poorly thought out and modeled after a failing Boys DA league but without the resources of MLS academies to fund them. It was also rolled out far too broadly which impacted the quality of ECNL and drastically impacted the quality of GDA. When things weren't working, they adopted even more likeness to ECNL (multiple games on a weekend and the concept of waivers). US Soccer doesn't know where to look (back, forward or any other direction) and this is the issue. They should not be in the business of running leagues. They should be busy looking for players of all ages and managing the NTs of all ages. They have already bitten off far more than they could chew with that task alone .... then add in DA and now GDA. They are glancing off iceberg after iceberg and have no plans to slow their sinking ship down and take honest stock of their own faults. If any of you think our men can not compete with the rest of the world and dominate, then get out now. We just need to think outside the box. If Iceland, Russia, or Croatia can do it once, how come we never can???? We can, but we have to have better talent identification and stop pretending our cute little DA league can compete with what the rest of the world can offer. After all, isn't what the DA is selling? It's a profit-making reuse for them and it needs to stop. Let the players sort themselves out and rise to the top .

This. Spot on.

[Unregistered]

Ok, you are making your argument.

A point I will take issue with is why can other countries and not us? Well the ENTIRE system is set up different. We need to scrap the system we have (yah, lets try that, aint gonna happen) and go to a true promotion and relegation system.

If we go that way then soccer will be "free" for the Good to excellent athletes, the rest still pay to play, the exchange is you basically sell your kid to the club and don't have any say in anything whatsoever. I've been to England and Spain and have seen how it works for the kids and their families.

Im all for it.

The guys who own the Revs, well not so much, theyve already sunk a bunch of cash into, or NYCFC. If we took the bottom 6 teams today and relegated them and brought up the otehrs, it would make the entie eague need to rething how they are half assing things.

There would be no "need" for USSF, or USSDA except to cobble together the national squads. All the training would be done elsewhere with the goal of crating homegrowns to then sell.

That will never happen. It would be the like owners of the Bruins or Islanders or Sabers or whatever hockey similie (NHL) we can use getting demoted for some Canadian second team that is made of hammerheads running the second division (or AHL). wners of those clubs are letting that happen, the culture is cemented in now.

As for the other part of what you are saying, its still way off. Yes the current ECNL teams for Girls will be better, we agree there, but like I said, lets revisit this in 5-6 years and see where the chips have fallen then. This is not about 2017-2018, or 2018-2019, oe 2021-2022, lets see 2022-2023. and we can reconvene then. The DA is like the borg, they have come, and the kids will be assimilated..... (As a side note have you seen the Boys ECNL debacle, its like inverse of the Girls DA)

Im not for or against DA or ECNL, I am just looking at the process and its already happened.

Take some young family who doesnt know much going inot this who youth experience. you have a choice, team/league hooked to US Soccer with all the shiny bells and whistles (yes flim-flam) or another brand which is great, but not sponsored by US Soccer. Maybe the clubs have Boys teams in the DA to add noise about how great it is on that side.....

The marketing budget for the DA is much deeper.

Nike did not come out with guns blazing and offer poor-quality sneakers at top dollar prices (see BBB for this ... note how differently they turn out). GDA came out and is selling an inferior product at top dollar and making kids invest more than they have to in comparison with ECNL. Many did not bite and some that did try found out the hard way that it was just NPL teams and coaches with a new label, a higher commitment, and a higher cost ..... but still just a bunch of NPL-level teams for the most part sprinkled in with a few very good teams and scores of really bad teams that could not have made even an NPL league. Again, GDA was poorly thought out and modeled after a failing Boys DA league but without the resources of MLS academies to fund them. It was also rolled out far too broadly which impacted the quality of ECNL and drastically impacted the quality of GDA. When things weren't working, they adopted even more likeness to ECNL (multiple games on a weekend and the concept of waivers). US Soccer doesn't know where to look (back, forward or any other direction) and this is the issue. They should not be in the business of running leagues. They should be busy looking for players of all ages and managing the NTs of all ages. They have already bitten off far more than they could chew with that task alone .... then add in DA and now GDA. They are glancing off iceberg after iceberg and have no plans to slow their sinking ship down and take honest stock of their own faults. If any of you think our men can not compete with the rest of the world and dominate, then get out now. We just need to think outside the box. If Iceland, Russia, or Croatia can do it once, how come we never can???? We can, but we have to have better talent identification and stop pretending our cute little DA league can compete with what the rest of the world can offer. After all, isn't what the DA is selling? It's a profit-making reuse for them and it needs to stop. Let the players sort themselves out and rise to the top .

[Unregistered]

Ok, you are making your argument.

A point I will take issue with is why can other countries and not us? Well the ENTIRE system is set up different. We need to scrap the system we have (yah, lets try that, aint gonna happen) and go to a true promotion and relegation system.

If we go that way then soccer will be "free" for the Good to excellent athletes, the rest still pay to play, the exchange is you basically sell your kid to the club and don't have any say in anything whatsoever. I've been to England and Spain and have seen how it works for the kids and their families.

Im all for it.

The guys who own the Revs, well not so much, theyve already sunk a bunch of cash into, or NYCFC. If we took the bottom 6 teams today and relegated them and brought up the otehrs, it would make the entie eague need to rething how they are half assing things.

There would be no "need" for USSF, or USSDA except to cobble together the national squads. All the training would be done elsewhere with the goal of crating homegrowns to then sell.

That will never happen. It would be the like owners of the Bruins or Islanders or Sabers or whatever hockey similie (NHL) we can use getting demoted for some Canadian second team that is made of hammerheads running the second division (or AHL). wners of those clubs are letting that happen, the culture is cemented in now.

As for the other part of what you are saying, its still way off. Yes the current ECNL teams for Girls will be better, we agree there, but like I said, lets revisit this in 5-6 years and see where the chips have fallen then. This is not about 2017-2018, or 2018-2019, oe 2021-2022, lets see 2022-2023. and we can reconvene then. The DA is like the borg, they have come, and the kids will be assimilated..... (As a side note have you seen the Boys ECNL debacle, its like inverse of the Girls DA)

Im not for or against DA or ECNL, I am just looking at the process and its already happened.

Take some young family who doesnt know much going inot this who youth experience. you have a choice, team/league hooked to US Soccer with all the shiny bells and whistles (yes flim-flam) or another brand which is great, but not sponsored by US Soccer. Maybe the clubs have Boys teams in the DA to add noise about how great it is on that side.....

The marketing budget for the DA is much deeper.

Marketing is fine but families are not helpless rubes. They are perfectly capable of taking stock of the offerings and making a choice that suits the player. Some go gda, some ecnl, some another way.

[Unregistered]

Marketing is fine but families are not helpless rubes. They are perfectly capable of taking stock of the offerings and making a choice that suits the player. Some go gda, some ecnl, some another way.

And they all pay to play and all leagues, teams, and players are weaker for it. If clubs got paid to relinquish tip players they would have am incentive to acquire and develop them for free so that they could make even more top dollars for it. Sorry, it is the way and the first clubs to get in on this model will thrive.

[Unregistered]

Marketing is fine but families are not helpless rubes. They are perfectly capable of taking stock of the offerings and making a choice that suits the player. Some go gda, some ecnl, some another way.

I could buy this if we were talking about a country with a rich soccer tradition. In the USA , most families do not have a clue about what is best for the player soccer wise. They are blinded by accents and wins and losses.

[Unregistered]

I could buy this if we were talking about a country with a rich soccer tradition. In the USA , most families do not have a clue about what is best for the player soccer wise. They are blinded by accents and wins and losses.

Exactly. The overall level of soccer education here is very poor. In an EPL game, the home crowd will cheer when their team successfully passes through and around pressure to get out of their defensive third. Here, fans and parents applaud the GK punt, when an opponent gets a yellow card, and my favorite, when there is an overhit through ball that not even Usain Bolt could catch.

[Unregistered]

Exactly. The overall level of soccer education here is very poor. In an EPL game, the home crowd will cheer when their team successfully passes through and around pressure to get out of their defensive third. Here, fans and parents applaud the GK punt, when an opponent gets a yellow card, and my favorite, when there is an overhit through ball that not even Usain Bolt could catch.

I dont disagree but dont you think top players parents will correctly applaud free. They have nothing to complain about anymore and clubs will handle it correcrly because they have a financial inventive to develop amd sell their best players to better clubs. In the new system there would be a huge dis-incentive to play #20 on your roster as a CM for entire games just because it is the coachs kid. Incentivizing the clubs assures that they have to select and properly train the right kids or they lose and would get relegated to a lower league for not doing a good enough job.its the only way.

[Unregistered]

Pay to play won't go away. It isn't the American way

There's too many leagues diluting the individual talent and club competitiveness, and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Too much bad blood between the different groups and too much money to be made to get them to cooperate any time soon.

[Unregistered]

Pay to play won't go away. It isn't the American way

There's too many leagues diluting the individual talent and club competitiveness, and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Too much bad blood between the different groups and too much money to be made to get them to cooperate any time soon.

It will when top clubs realize it is a way for them to get all of the top players and make even more money than they do now.

[Unregistered]

Wait, OW is still around? That daddy-coaching club with the stinky boarded indoor facility? Wow.

[Unregistered]

I dont disagree but dont you think top players parents will correctly applaud free. They have nothing to complain about anymore and clubs will handle it correcrly because they have a financial inventive to develop amd sell their best players to better clubs. In the new system there would be a huge dis-incentive to play #20 on your roster as a CM for entire games just because it is the coachs kid. Incentivizing the clubs assures that they have to select and properly train the right kids or they lose and would get relegated to a lower league for not doing a good enough job.its the only way.

this cannot happen for women unless the pro leagues are successful and offer a lucrative path in WITHOUT COLLEGE. If it did, the number of spots available would make the number of kids offered said route tiny. Lets hypothesize and add Stanford, Duke, UVA,USC, UCLA, Penn State, UNC, FSU to the NWSL teams out there. Now ask yourself how many kids you know are heavily recruited by these schools? Double it and say that your universe of kids a pro club would "invest" in.

No one is going to take that bet when they can make more money just training the masses to go to other less soccer intensive environments. Essentially that is why the GDA is not working. the number of real soccer intensive environments is tiny.

The ECNL wont say it, but they will cede that ground to train kids to go anywhere ( including some off the very best schools) and spend parents money promoting how a commitment to Liberty is the soccer equal of one to Stanford. They will pound social medai with numbers and pretend that ALL D1 is equal to keep that golden goose going.

No one has any incentive to change the system. The reason the system is different in Europe is because the mens leagues actually generate huge TV revenue and as the cost of proven player acquisition skyrockets, a few academy successes or shrewd buys can generate hundreds of millions (see Monaco Mbappe, Lemar, Bernardo Silva, Fabinho etc) . Some of that has and will continue to percolate to the womens game in Europe, but I dont see it here. Not with the MLS/NWSL set up how they are.

Running the USWNT like a Club team may benefit the 20 or so members, but there is little incentive for anyone else to toil away waiting for a call from Jill Ellis. Again, its no different to kids playing GDA hoping for a YNT call up. You are better off getting on with your life given how the system is constructed.