TTL Week 1 in review

[Unregistered]

Anybody see anything good this weekend? Some new rules, some new teams. "More teams than ever."

Checking the red card list I see one coach made the list for "violent conduct" and looks like their team ended up with a forfeit. Don't know anything more.

As a referee too I think it's getting better. I think yellow and red cards to coaches might result in more ejections initially and I think long term the yellows are going to really chill some coaches out.

A couple years back there was a team that had a player on the list for denying a goal scoring opportunity and two coaches for irresponsible conduct. I suspect the foul - then the coaches lost their minds.

Anyone else got anything good?

[Unregistered]

Anybody see anything good this weekend? Some new rules, some new teams. "More teams than ever."

Checking the red card list I see one coach made the list for "violent conduct" and looks like their team ended up with a forfeit. Don't know anything more.

As a referee too I think it's getting better. I think yellow and red cards to coaches might result in more ejections initially and I think long term the yellows are going to really chill some coaches out.

A couple years back there was a team that had a player on the list for denying a goal scoring opportunity and two coaches for irresponsible conduct. I suspect the foul - then the coaches lost their minds.

Anyone else got anything good?

And it was a suburban 07 girls team. What did the coach do--take a swing at the ref? I can't think of any reason for a coach guilty of VC to not be suspended for the season, unless "VC" means something different for staff than it means for players (fighting or deliberate attempts to injure). Simply no reason for a coach to lay a finger anyone else on the field, ever. Unlike the players, they don't have the excuse of participating in a contact sport where the lines between a simple foul, a booking, SFP, and VC are often blurry.

(Three of the four coaching suspensions listed on the boys' side are for incidents from last spring that have carried over into fall season).

[Unregistered]

And it was a suburban 07 girls team. What did the coach do--take a swing at the ref? I can't think of any reason for a coach guilty of VC to not be suspended for the season, unless "VC" means something different for staff than it means for players (fighting or deliberate attempts to injure). Simply no reason for a coach to lay a finger anyone else on the field, ever. Unlike the players, they don't have the excuse of participating in a contact sport where the lines between a simple foul, a booking, SFP, and VC are often blurry.

(Three of the four coaching suspensions listed on the boys' side are for incidents from last spring that have carried over into fall season).

I just went through the OYSA referee webinar and I didn't see a different "violent conduct." I did see examples of what should be a caution (yellow) and what should be a red (ejection) for coaches. I suggest watching that part for all coaches. That webinar was sent out with that very big start of the season email from OYSA.

It used to be coaches could be dismissed for "irresponsible conduct." OYSA listed examples, one of which was throwing things at the bench, excessively arguing etc.

The webinar, and appears the laws of the game lists things like throwing a water bottle at your bench, excessive signally for a yellow card and such as cautions. Then it also lays out specific things that will get you ejected, like throwing an item on the field, entering the opposing teams technical area to confront the other coach as ejections.

2 games for VC by a coach does seem pretty soft. So again, maybe it was as simple as stepping over the center line and telling the other coach what he thought of him.... ( entering the technical area to confront)

[Unregistered]

This is from the new Laws of the Game.



Team Officials

Where an offence is committed and the offender cannot be identified, the senior team coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction.

WARNING

The following offences should usually result in a warning; repeated or blatant offences should result in a caution or sending-off:

Entering the field of play in a respectful/non-confrontational manner

Failing to cooperate with a match official e.g. ignoring an instruction/request from an assistant referee or the fourth official

Minor/low-level disagreement (by word or action) with a decision

Occasionally leaving the confines of the technical area without committing another offence

CAUTION (Yellow Card)

Caution offences include (but are not limited to):

Clearly/persistently not respecting the confines of their team’s technical area

Delaying the restart of play by their team

Deliberately entering the technical area of the opposing team (non-confrontational)

Dissent by word or action including:

Throwing/kicking drinks bottles or other objects

Gestures which show a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g.sarcastic clapping

Entering the referee review area (RRA)

Excessively/persistently gesturing for a red or yellow card

Excessively showing the TV signal for a VAR ‘review’

Gesturing or acting in a provocative or inflammatory manner

Persistent unacceptable behaviour (including repeated warning offences)

Showing a lack of respect for the game

SENDING OFF (Red Card)

Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):

Delaying the restart of play by the opposing team e.g. holding onto the ball, kicking the ball away, obstructing the movement of a player

Deliberately leaving the technical area to show dissent towards, or remonstrate with, a match official.

Act in a provocative or inflammatory manner

Enter the opposing technical area in an aggressive or confrontational manner

Deliberately throwing/kicking an object onto the field of play

Entering the field of play to:

-confront a match official (including at half-time and full-time)

-interfere with play, an opposing player or a match official
entering the video operation room (VOR)

Physical or aggressive behaviour (including spitting or biting) towards an opposing player, substitute, team official, match official, spectator or any
other person (e.g. ball boy/girl, security or competition official etc.)

Receiving a second caution in the same match

Using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

Using unauthorised electronic or communication equipment and/or behaving in an inappropriate manner as the result of using electronic or communication equipment

Violent conduct

VIOLENT CONDUCT

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.

[Unregistered]

Email out says there was a "referee assault" over the weekend.

[Unregistered]

Email out says there was a "referee assault" over the weekend.

UPDX G07 coach Robert Lucero now has an 8-game suspension.

If by "referee assault", it is meant that this coach did bodily harm to a ref (or attempted to), that is way serious. If this is the case, UPDX needs to can his azz. Some things are simply not acceptable, and you don't get a warning for. Attacking the referee is one of them. And a report should be filed with the police--even if the law chooses not to deal with it (if the coach e.g. shoved the ref but nothing more, I can't imagine a prosecution resulting from that).

If "referee assault" means he approached the referee in an aggressive or threatening manner, but didn't actually injure or attempt to injure the ref, then 8 games is appropriate discipline, and this ought to be his one and only warning to never ever do that again. But if UPDX still chooses to terminate his employment, they would be well within their rights to do so.

[Unregistered]

UPDX G07 coach Robert Lucero now has an 8-game suspension.

If by "referee assault", it is meant that this coach did bodily harm to a ref (or attempted to), that is way serious. If this is the case, UPDX needs to can his azz. Some things are simply not acceptable, and you don't get a warning for. Attacking the referee is one of them. And a report should be filed with the police--even if the law chooses not to deal with it (if the coach e.g. shoved the ref but nothing more, I can't imagine a prosecution resulting from that).

If "referee assault" means he approached the referee in an aggressive or threatening manner, but didn't actually injure or attempt to injure the ref, then 8 games is appropriate discipline, and this ought to be his one and only warning to never ever do that again. But if UPDX still chooses to terminate his employment, they would be well within their rights to do so.

You don’t know the context so I’m calling out your bs.

I was around a ref the other day that legitimately tried to shout down a coach and get in his face and probably turned around and cried referee assault.

Give me a break.

[Unregistered]

You don’t know the context so I’m calling out your bs.

I was around a ref the other day that legitimately tried to shout down a coach and get in his face and probably turned around and cried referee assault.

Give me a break.

I've seen quite a few refs get aggressive like that; at no time in such incidents has a coach received an 8-match ban. If the ref was out of line, I hope the other coach would provide his point of view. Since this was an 07 match, there were most likely two ARs who witnessed the event.

OYSA will rescind red cards (and not suspend coaches/players) if it can be convinced the ref messed up, so it's not a situation of the ref's word is gold and the coach's word is mud. I've seen that happen before.

Given that an 8-match ban was handed out, and it sounds like OYSA did send out a memo to the clubs concerning the incident, my assumption is this is deserved. You don't appear to know the context either.

[Unregistered]

UPDX G07 coach Robert Lucero now has an 8-game suspension.

If by "referee assault", it is meant that this coach did bodily harm to a ref (or attempted to), that is way serious. If this is the case, UPDX needs to can his azz. Some things are simply not acceptable, and you don't get a warning for. Attacking the referee is one of them. And a report should be filed with the police--even if the law chooses not to deal with it (if the coach e.g. shoved the ref but nothing more, I can't imagine a prosecution resulting from that).

If "referee assault" means he approached the referee in an aggressive or threatening manner, but didn't actually injure or attempt to injure the ref, then 8 games is appropriate discipline, and this ought to be his one and only warning to never ever do that again. But if UPDX still chooses to terminate his employment, they would be well within their rights to do so.

Robert Lucero? He is one of the nicest guys in youth soccer.

2 yellow cards to Rob in 27th minute. Sounds like an inexperienced ref. A very, very inexperienced ref.

[Unregistered]

Robert Lucero? He is one of the nicest guys in youth soccer.

2 yellow cards to Rob in 27th minute. Sounds like an inexperienced ref. A very, very inexperienced ref.

According to OYSA, Lucero wasn't ejected for "second caution", he was ejected for "violent conduct". Second caution is a one-match ban (at least for players, might be different for coaches), not an eight-match ban.

Either the ref filled out the form incorrectly (intentionally or otherwise), or someone isn't telling the truth here.

The game in question was a lower-division match being held out in Oregon City. Game ended in a forfeit win for OTFC--which happens automatically if a coach is sent off and no assistant or other team official is present. In lower-division matches, where there is presumably less pressure to win than in OYSA premier, I'm a bit surprised to hear of this sort of thing happening.

At any rate--were you at the match? You seem to know the exact time of dismissal, but then say "sounds like an inexperienced ref", which suggests you WEREN'T there and don't know exactly what occurred and are speculating (and doing so in a fashion with is derogatory to the match official), otherwise you would be able to provide an eyewitness account of what happened. Since the time of dismissal is non-public information, but something that senior club officials reviewing the incident report might know, it almost sounds like someone at UPDX is throwing chaff into the atmosphere.

[Unregistered]

According to OYSA, Lucero wasn't ejected for "second caution", he was ejected for "violent conduct". Second caution is a one-match ban (at least for players, might be different for coaches), not an eight-match ban.

Either the ref filled out the form incorrectly (intentionally or otherwise), or someone isn't telling the truth here.

The game in question was a lower-division match being held out in Oregon City. Game ended in a forfeit win for OTFC--which happens automatically if a coach is sent off and no assistant or other team official is present. In lower-division matches, where there is presumably less pressure to win than in OYSA premier, I'm a bit surprised to hear of this sort of thing happening.

At any rate--were you at the match? You seem to know the exact time of dismissal, but then say "sounds like an inexperienced ref", which suggests you WEREN'T there and don't know exactly what occurred and are speculating (and doing so in a fashion with is derogatory to the match official), otherwise you would be able to provide an eyewitness account of what happened. Since the time of dismissal is non-public information, but something that senior club officials reviewing the incident report might know, it almost sounds like someone at UPDX is throwing chaff into the atmosphere.

Just chuckling at the prospect of lucero getting a card, much less an ejection. Didn’t even know he was coaching at united - was at westside for years. Very nice guy.

[Unregistered]

Just chuckling at the prospect of lucero getting a card, much less an ejection. Didn’t even know he was coaching at united - was at westside for years. Very nice guy.

I don't know RL, so cannot agree or disagree with any character anonymous character references posted here. It's possible, I guess, that he has been railroaded by a referee--there are a few of 'em out there that have anger management issues and are known for ejecting coaches on a whim. (There are a few tales I could tell, and I'm just a parent). And with the recent focus on protecting officials, there might be an a-hole out there who is taking advantage. OYSA doesn't disclose who the match referees are (at least not to the general public), so I can't say more than that.

But still--he's got an eight-game suspension for violent conduct. If he's innocent of any act of violence, that sucks. But I've never heard of a referee making up an assault. And OTFC isn't likely the sort of high-power win-focused club whose coaches (who certainly witnessed the incident) might be tempted to screw the other coach by backing up a bogus account from a loose-cannon ref. Assuming that OYSA asked them.

[Unregistered]

I've met the coach, and I've met a lot of you. Statements that he's the nicest guy or whatever are worthless. None of that has anything to do with what he may or may not have done at this game. "Good people" do wrong all the time. He was just getting his life back together or he'd never do something like that. People say that stuff all the time and he means jack.

OYSA has a default ban of 2 matches which is what it said throughout the day. Then it said 8. I'm not up on OYSA procedure, appeals, investigation, etc. so I don't know, getting worked up about a referee decision is over the top. There is this line that has just been pushed back and pushed back and the conduct is out of control.

Comments about the referees experience level, etc. are also worthless. In fact more worthless. The referees job is to manage the match. Not hear the coaches complaints. It doesn't matter if the referee messed up this call or that, is inconsistent or flat out wrong. Your job as coach is only to coach your players. Give them instructions and decide who plays where. Coaches have ZERO responsibility or right to engage the referee about their performance EXCEPT by calling the ref coordinator and filling out the referee evaluation form. That's it. Period. You don't like the call, you have no right to complain. You think off sides, no right to complain. This a foul, that's not, no right. YOU WILL ACCEPT THE REFEREES DECISIONS that is the expectation.

I think part of the problem is clubs, coaches, and the whole culture we all have part in. Their are people among us who think that the coach has some kind of right "to be heard" and condone coaches verbally engaging referees to complain, bellyache, etc. Anyone that says, "Coaches just want to be heard" and think that means during or after a match is flat our wrong. You can be heard after the game by filling out the form, that's it.

I look forward to knowing more about this incident....

[Unregistered]

UPDX G07 coach Robert Lucero now has an 8-game suspension.

If by "referee assault", it is meant that this coach did bodily harm to a ref (or attempted to), that is way serious. If this is the case, UPDX needs to can his azz. Some things are simply not acceptable, and you don't get a warning for. Attacking the referee is one of them. And a report should be filed with the police--even if the law chooses not to deal with it (if the coach e.g. shoved the ref but nothing more, I can't imagine a prosecution resulting from that).

If "referee assault" means he approached the referee in an aggressive or threatening manner, but didn't actually injure or attempt to injure the ref, then 8 games is appropriate discipline, and this ought to be his one and only warning to never ever do that again. But if UPDX still chooses to terminate his employment, they would be well within their rights to do so.

No way UPDX cans this guy. They have and keep a Technical Director that sold US Refion IV and State ODP spots to players if they came to his club team. This is a shady club. If Slim Shady, eeeer, I mean Brandon McNeil cans this guy then we will all know the double standard he lives by. BM should’ve been canned for his shady workings too.

[Unregistered]

No way UPDX cans this guy. They have and keep a Technical Director that sold US Refion IV and State ODP spots to players if they came to his club team. This is a shady club. If Slim Shady, eeeer, I mean Brandon McNeil cans this guy then we will all know the double standard he lives by. BM should’ve been canned for his shady workings too.

I think their whole existence is shady and when they started they were "recruiting" players left and right. Maybe not at the highest levels and maybe not by design, but their individual coaches were and it was no secret.

8 match ban is a whole season; will he get paid and who pays the fine?

Echoing comments above. We need to stop engaging referees. Even when they are bad. "Referee Assault" doesn't mean a black eye or a bloody nose, as said before, that's call the police time. I think "Referee Assault" carries a particular definition but I'm pretty sure it does include contact. Bad.

Anyone in the know, appeal forthcoming..done deal, what?