League Structures Going Forward

[Unregistered]

Moving over from other threads discussion of structure go forward. From another thread:

I'm sure OYSA wouldn't like it, just as OYSA probably is annoyed that CU and FC Portland enter their top girls teams into ECNL and not TTL. But OYSA probably couldn't stop it were it to occur--it would only take a critical mass of A-list clubs to have a reasonable league.

SCA would jump at this, obviously, and I'm sure all of ADF, UPDX, FC, WUSC/LOSC/OPFC, and THUSC might go along. Bridges United possibly as well.

The old OPL had two problems:

* It was an attempt at a VERTICAL split--clubs were either in or out; which weakened both organizations, and left OYSA with a revenue shortfall.
* It deliberately excluded a lot of clubs--anything outside the metro area was told to go pound sand, and the numerous Latino clubs in the area were also not part of it. While this probably wasn't the intent, at the end it looked like the wealthy suburban clubs trying to segregate themselves.

The suggestion on the table, again, is a horizontal split--a US Club-sponsored "premier" league that:
* Is open to any club that can qualify (soccer-wise).
* Is open to nonprofits and for-profits alike
* Does not offer "rec" or "select" soccer, those are left to OYSA to administer

Will this happen? Who knows. I expect to see more for-profit entities popping up in the local soccer scene; there's plenty of that already in soccer hotbeds like CA. And sooner or later, the money dam will break, if OYSA continues to ban for-profits, US Club will gladly step in. What might actually happen might be far worse for Oregon soccer, we might just get an OPL v2 with all the faults of the first one.

[Unregistered]

Seems like there is a lot of focus on establishing "premier leagues" when the majority of players aren't playing premier.

[Unregistered]

Its a non starter. There is no benefit for any club outside of SCA. For every other club, the cost will be about the same. Plus they would then split their competition in half. In OYSA at the higher levels its already hard to get consistent competition, so splitting that just lowers both leagues top end. It would also mean no state cup for those teams that left.

Can you honestly give me 1 true benefit for teams outside of SCA to do this? Besides "they get to run their own league". Give me something tangible that you could tell a parent. For example in Washington one of the Biggest reasons RCL was created, is because the DOC's wanted some major things changed, like the ability to use player passes within the club for players to guest play. 15 years ago, you had to be rostered to play on a team, there was no movement. So creating the RCL allowed them to sell the parents on player movement within the club. Thats an example of something tangible. Is there anything besides letting for profit clubs into this new "league" that would be gained?

[Unregistered]

Its a non starter. There is no benefit for any club outside of SCA. For every other club, the cost will be about the same. Plus they would then split their competition in half. In OYSA at the higher levels its already hard to get consistent competition, so splitting that just lowers both leagues top end. It would also mean no state cup for those teams that left.

Can you honestly give me 1 true benefit for teams outside of SCA to do this? Besides "they get to run their own league". Give me something tangible that you could tell a parent. For example in Washington one of the Biggest reasons RCL was created, is because the DOC's wanted some major things changed, like the ability to use player passes within the club for players to guest play. 15 years ago, you had to be rostered to play on a team, there was no movement. So creating the RCL allowed them to sell the parents on player movement within the club. Thats an example of something tangible. Is there anything besides letting for profit clubs into this new "league" that would be gained?

No, I don't think there is any appetite for splitting OYSA competition further. Plenty of the Nike clubs dislike the amount of Timbers involvement in OYSA, but I don't see any of them pulling out of OYSA for their core programming.

Could a B/C league prop up again? Maybe, but lots of work and at this point there is noone pushing that.

[Unregistered]

Good question above, why should Club X do it when it's already working for them.

Question #2 why can't SCA figure out a way to skirt the rules? Separate their entities, etc?

No need for whole new leagues. Division levels and team placement can be improved. So improve it.

Creating the highest level team will take a lot more than a league. Club/coach concessions. Never going to happen at youth sports with money and egos involved.

For 99% of players and parents everything is working just fine and in a 2-3 years are aged out anyway and don't care.

[Unregistered]

I don't see a split for the foreseeable future . . . but as WYSA learned recently, splinter groups can metastasize quickly, particular among the big clubs.

I don't think those clubs are going to leave OYSA over SCA not getting in though.

[Unregistered]

Seems like there is a lot of focus on establishing "premier leagues" when the majority of players aren't playing premier.

Yep. This issue is big in Portland Metro. “I don’t like how ABC Club does things so I’m going to start my own Club.” Or the, “If that DOC makes that much then I surely could running a club of coaches.”

Then these idiots find out how hard it is to run a club.

Parents are no different. Johnny or Susie get cut from the top team at XYZ Club so they take their child to another club to play on an “A” team that ends up not good enough to beat the previous XYZ Clubs “B” teams.

Parents and coaches chasing shadows looking for teams playing in better leagues or events.

[Unregistered]

I don't see a split for the foreseeable future . . . but as WYSA learned recently, splinter groups can metastasize quickly, particular among the big clubs.

I don't think those clubs are going to leave OYSA over SCA not getting in though.

The biggest difference between the two, is WYSA had a lot bigger clubs and a lot more of them. OYSA is a lot smaller size wise than many people want to think. Any splinter is bound to fail, its really all or nothing if you want any competition.

[Unregistered]

No, I don't think there is any appetite for splitting OYSA competition further. Plenty of the Nike clubs dislike the amount of Timbers involvement in OYSA, but I don't see any of them pulling out of OYSA for their core programming.

Could a B/C league prop up again? Maybe, but lots of work and at this point there is noone pushing that.

There are plenty of B/C leagues around the state already. Outside the Portland metro area, many of the non-premier classic teams are already playing in local leagues that aren't run by OYSA. (They are sanctioned by OYSA, but not the TTL).

Which is, actually, a good thing. No reason for a Division 2 team from Portland to drive down to Eugene to play ETFC's C team, or vice versa. (And there's plenty of clubs in other parts of the state that you never hear of unless they occasionally show up in Presidents or State Cup).

An interesting question, though, remains what direction (if any) subsidies flow. I suspect that at the OYSA level, fees collected for premier soccer (registration, TTL, State Cup) are generally being used to pay expenses expenses associated with that tier (I'm treating Peregrine as a vendor here), and aren't necessary for OYSA's support of select and rec soccer, and vice versa.

From the point of view of OYSA, losing the premier tier wouldn't be a good thing. But were some clubs to bolt, there's little OYSA can do about it, just like they couldn't do anything about the DA setting up shop for three years, or about ECNL now. The question remains, the clubs: quite a few have demonstrated a willingness to move. It could happen.

[Unregistered]

There are plenty of B/C leagues around the state already. Outside the Portland metro area, many of the non-premier classic teams are already playing in local leagues that aren't run by OYSA. (They are sanctioned by OYSA, but not the TTL).

Which is, actually, a good thing. No reason for a Division 2 team from Portland to drive down to Eugene to play ETFC's C team, or vice versa. (And there's plenty of clubs in other parts of the state that you never hear of unless they occasionally show up in Presidents or State Cup).

An interesting question, though, remains what direction (if any) subsidies flow. I suspect that at the OYSA level, fees collected for premier soccer (registration, TTL, State Cup) are generally being used to pay expenses expenses associated with that tier (I'm treating Peregrine as a vendor here), and aren't necessary for OYSA's support of select and rec soccer, and vice versa.

From the point of view of OYSA, losing the premier tier wouldn't be a good thing. But were some clubs to bolt, there's little OYSA can do about it, just like they couldn't do anything about the DA setting up shop for three years, or about ECNL now. The question remains, the clubs: quite a few have demonstrated a willingness to move. It could happen.

You answered your own questions. Clubs will move in a heart beat, IF there is a benefit for them.

FCP and Crossfire moved their girls top teams to ECNL and kept the rest in OYSA, becuase to them ECNL was the benefit. The same thing for the boys with the DA. Washington Timbers send their top girls teams to RCL and the rest stay in OYSA.

There is one common thread though, they send a few teams and keep the rest in OYSA. There hasn't been one good reason given yet in this thread on why you should take your entire club out of OYSA in this situation.

[Unregistered]

You answered your own questions. Clubs will move in a heart beat, IF there is a benefit for them.

FCP and Crossfire moved their girls top teams to ECNL and kept the rest in OYSA, becuase to them ECNL was the benefit. The same thing for the boys with the DA. Washington Timbers send their top girls teams to RCL and the rest stay in OYSA.

There is one common thread though, they send a few teams and keep the rest in OYSA. There hasn't been one good reason given yet in this thread on why you should take your entire club out of OYSA in this situation.

Exactly! Which was the suggestion made at the top. Premier teams to somewhere else, select teams ("white" or "red" teams at FC, "samba" or "mundial" teams at Westside, along with all of rec) remains in OYSA. OYSA focuses on the management and supervision and support of community non-profits where the kids are playing for fun, and families aren't spending megabucks on personal training, travel, etc. The high end of the market gets the crucible of less-regulated competition, and includes both the for-profit entities like SCA and ADF, as well as the legacy nonprofit clubs who have the ability to play in this market.

Premier soccer--where parents and kids have stars in their eyes--is a vastly different market than select and rec; I would go as far to argue that most "classic" clubs have more in common with a rec club than they do with an outfit like ADF.

[Unregistered]

Exactly! Which was the suggestion made at the top. Premier teams to somewhere else, select teams ("white" or "red" teams at FC, "samba" or "mundial" teams at Westside, along with all of rec) remains in OYSA. OYSA focuses on the management and supervision and support of community non-profits where the kids are playing for fun, and families aren't spending megabucks on personal training, travel, etc. The high end of the market gets the crucible of less-regulated competition, and includes both the for-profit entities like SCA and ADF, as well as the legacy nonprofit clubs who have the ability to play in this market.

Premier soccer--where parents and kids have stars in their eyes--is a vastly different market than select and rec; I would go as far to argue that most "classic" clubs have more in common with a rec club than they do with an outfit like ADF.

And to be clear--the full-service blue-chip clubs (any of the Alliance clubs, FC, OPFC, UPDX, PCU) would possibly have teams in both.

[Unregistered]

Exactly! Which was the suggestion made at the top. Premier teams to somewhere else, select teams ("white" or "red" teams at FC, "samba" or "mundial" teams at Westside, along with all of rec) remains in OYSA. OYSA focuses on the management and supervision and support of community non-profits where the kids are playing for fun, and families aren't spending megabucks on personal training, travel, etc. The high end of the market gets the crucible of less-regulated competition, and includes both the for-profit entities like SCA and ADF, as well as the legacy nonprofit clubs who have the ability to play in this market.

Premier soccer--where parents and kids have stars in their eyes--is a vastly different market than select and rec; I would go as far to argue that most "classic" clubs have more in common with a rec club than they do with an outfit like ADF.

You still aren't answering the question. WHY do they need to leave OYSA to have a "premier" division if they have that in OYSA?

That is the question. What will starting a new premier league do for them that they are not getting at OYSA? Outside of allowing SCA to join?

[Unregistered]

You still aren't answering the question. WHY do they need to leave OYSA to have a "premier" division if they have that in OYSA?

That is the question. What will starting a new premier league do for them that they are not getting at OYSA? Outside of allowing SCA to join?

Why did six clubs put their premier teams in the DA? Why are all the top Washington teams in BECNL? Why are CU and FC in girls ECNL?

[Unregistered]

Why did six clubs put their premier teams in the DA? Why are all the top Washington teams in BECNL? Why are CU and FC in girls ECNL?

You are a master of avoiding the question. What would creating a new premier division outside of OYSA do? Do you think those teams are going to leave the ECNL and DA to come join the new premier division? The answer is no. Those teams are gone, so with those teams gone, How would it benefit those teams who are left to start a new league?