Development vs wins

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Development vs winning.

What's more important to you? What about your kid(s)? Would you rather them be on a team that is developing solid skills and game development or a team that wins at all costs (even if that means you son or daughter ride pine >50% of the game)?

If you chose development, what does that mean to you exactly?

If you're losing games how do you keep your child engaged and excited about soccer?

If you chose wins, how does that help your child now and in the future?

PS any person who mentions a specific club or program is a giant, stinky, troll. Leave that crap for the other threads. Lets talk about general youth soccer without trying to make yourself feel good about your club or someone else feel bad about theirs.

[Unregistered]

Development vs winning.

What's more important to you? What about your kid(s)? Would you rather them be on a team that is developing solid skills and game development or a team that wins at all costs (even if that means you son or daughter ride pine >50% of the game)?

If you chose development, what does that mean to you exactly?

If you're losing games how do you keep your child engaged and excited about soccer?

If you chose wins, how does that help your child now and in the future?

PS any person who mentions a specific club or program is a giant, stinky, troll. Leave that crap for the other threads. Lets talk about general youth soccer without trying to make yourself feel good about your club or someone else feel bad about theirs.

Over the long-haul it is a false choice.

If your question is "wins today" v. development, than there is a decision to make. However, Barcelona doesn't play possession ball just because it is pretty - they do it because they think it is the best way to win.

In terms of development's meaning:

Most Importantly - learn to work hard, deal adversity, the joy of mastering something, work as teammate and part of a community, strive for goals

Secondly - physical (coordination), technical, and game understanding

In terms of choosing teams, for me they need to have some balance of winning and losing; too much of either extreme and it distorts your view.

If your kid is on a losing team, trying to focus on individual goals (which sometimes include being a leader and supporter of teammates); need to find tiny victories to celebrate. If they are on a winning team, have to find ways to keep them hungry and aspiring for better.

[Unregistered]

Developing for me 100%. My kids want to win and I encourage that and it IS part of development, the love of competition and a killer instinct are needed in life as much as on the pitch.

However, coaches and other parents worried about the wins and losses are idiots and a plague.

If you chose development, what does that mean to you exactly?

On a broader level it means the coach having a philosophy, (and communicating it all the time to the parents), based on the understanding that regardless of the results today, we are going to train players who can be part of a team that can win tomorrow at a higher level and that means focusing now on the technical skills when they can be absorbed better at younger ages, even though a long ball to the big girls it the clearest path to victory.

There should be pressure and competition, but it should be individual pressure and competition to improve and fight for spots and time, lifting the individual development of each player and thereby, as a bi product, the results of the team.

Individual training as opposed team tactics. Is the coach checking in consistently with individual players and their parents to provide an assessment and an individualized plan for improvement, including specific homework? Is there a lot of specific technical instruction, Coerver type training? Is that then followed with a lot of 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and small sided games? You ensure that players can't hide, defenders have to dribble, strikers must defend, etc.

IF YOU ARE DEVELOPING PLAYERS YOU PUT THEM IN SITUATIONS THAT EXPOSE THEIR WEAKNESSES, NOT SITUATIONS THAT ACCENTUATE THEIR STRENGTHS.

The result of that focus would be ALL players being competent on the ball, being able to pass and move, attack AND defend, etc. Rather than a lot of team training all the time based on positional play, patterns of play and constant long balls, or wing play with specialized robots programmed only to do their specific jobs.

Contrary to popular belief and idiot parents expectations, these training sessions should look more like frenetic disorganized pick up games, rather than professionally run drill instructors putting troops through their paces. There should be hooting and hollering, kids should be yelling and having fun megging each other and trying bits of audacious creativity and applauded even when they don't pull it off, rather than criticized constantly for not passing it like a robot into the channels.

This philosophy would then carry over into games, where the team is 100% committed to winning and sets out to blow the doors off the opposition. However, they should be playing the right way, on the front foot, attacking relentlessly, keeping the ball on the deck, using superior technique AND tactical acumen to play their way through the middle and play the game in the opposing third and choke the life out of the opponent.

Possession itself is way overblown; possession without penetration is just masturbation. What I would want to see is that the players are attacking, thinking and working together, the ball is circulating, players are confidently dropping it to the defenders and keeper, everyone is comfortable on the ball and they are encouraged to take players on and try sh!t.

If you're losing games how do you keep your child engaged and excited about soccer?

Good question, I have 4 kids we have been on plenty of losing teams, never had an excitement or motivation problem with 3 of them and the fourth just rather play music. I would contend that maybe the adults concentrating on results are causing any lack of excitement and engagement, not the losses themselves.

Individual skills training and the demonstration and use of that in games. If they are with a team developing players as above, then there is an individual sense of improvement and fulfillment, they also should be playing the game and improving skills outside of the team.
There should be more of a connection to the game then just their club team. If they are not playing in the backyard with you, at school, pick up, other programs like futsal, RTC, other training through the club or something, then I don't think this is for them and you probably shouldn't be shelling out thousands of dollars for something they don't care about that much.

If you chose wins, how does that help your child now and in the future?

No one will admit to this, even though the vast majority of people are choosing wins.

[Unregistered]

Just win baby.

https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.ne...258633/jwb.jpg

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80%+ of kids quit playing soccer by the end of middle school. Let them enjoy winning something while they are playing, even if it's only the Bronze group at Crash at the Border.

[Unregistered]

This question to me is flawed. It is possible to develop and win at the same time. The real question is can parents take their Ego's out of the equation and put their kid on the proper team for their childs skill level.

If you put them on an A team they aren't ready for just so they can be on the A team no matter what the team does they will be overwhelmed. I have also seen parents push coaches to put teams into higher leagues because of their Ego, where the team is put in the situation where if they focus on their development they will probably lose most their games and those same parents are upset they are losing everything, or they have to ditch the development just in order to survive the league they are in. Once again its because of ego's not allowing them to be put into a league that is correct for their skill level. I don't care if you are in Premier A, B Div 1 2, whatever it is, as long as you are putting the team in the correct league that they can compete at while working on their skill levels they can both have a successful development year and a positive year with enough wins they feel good about it.

[Unregistered]

Developing for me 100%. My kids want to win and I encourage that and it IS part of development, the love of competition and a killer instinct are needed in life as much as on the pitch.

However, coaches and other parents worried about the wins and losses are idiots and a plague.




On a broader level it means the coach having a philosophy, (and communicating it all the time to the parents), based on the understanding that regardless of the results today, we are going to train players who can be part of a team that can win tomorrow at a higher level and that means focusing now on the technical skills when they can be absorbed better at younger ages, even though a long ball to the big girls it the clearest path to victory.

There should be pressure and competition, but it should be individual pressure and competition to improve and fight for spots and time, lifting the individual development of each player and thereby, as a bi product, the results of the team.

Individual training as opposed team tactics. Is the coach checking in consistently with individual players and their parents to provide an assessment and an individualized plan for improvement, including specific homework? Is there a lot of specific technical instruction, Coerver type training? Is that then followed with a lot of 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and small sided games? You ensure that players can't hide, defenders have to dribble, strikers must defend, etc.

IF YOU ARE DEVELOPING PLAYERS YOU PUT THEM IN SITUATIONS THAT EXPOSE THEIR WEAKNESSES, NOT SITUATIONS THAT ACCENTUATE THEIR STRENGTHS.

The result of that focus would be ALL players being competent on the ball, being able to pass and move, attack AND defend, etc. Rather than a lot of team training all the time based on positional play, patterns of play and constant long balls, or wing play with specialized robots programmed only to do their specific jobs.

Contrary to popular belief and idiot parents expectations, these training sessions should look more like frenetic disorganized pick up games, rather than professionally run drill instructors putting troops through their paces. There should be hooting and hollering, kids should be yelling and having fun megging each other and trying bits of audacious creativity and applauded even when they don't pull it off, rather than criticized constantly for not passing it like a robot into the channels.

This philosophy would then carry over into games, where the team is 100% committed to winning and sets out to blow the doors off the opposition. However, they should be playing the right way, on the front foot, attacking relentlessly, keeping the ball on the deck, using superior technique AND tactical acumen to play their way through the middle and play the game in the opposing third and choke the life out of the opponent.

Possession itself is way overblown; possession without penetration is just masturbation. What I would want to see is that the players are attacking, thinking and working together, the ball is circulating, players are confidently dropping it to the defenders and keeper, everyone is comfortable on the ball and they are encouraged to take players on and try sh!t.



Good question, I have 4 kids we have been on plenty of losing teams, never had an excitement or motivation problem with 3 of them and the fourth just rather play music. I would contend that maybe the adults concentrating on results are causing any lack of excitement and engagement, not the losses themselves.

Individual skills training and the demonstration and use of that in games. If they are with a team developing players as above, then there is an individual sense of improvement and fulfillment, they also should be playing the game and improving skills outside of the team.
There should be more of a connection to the game then just their club team. If they are not playing in the backyard with you, at school, pick up, other programs like futsal, RTC, other training through the club or something, then I don't think this is for them and you probably shouldn't be shelling out thousands of dollars for something they don't care about that much.




No one will admit to this, even though the vast majority of people are choosing wins.

Agreed. But you can only find philosophy/curriculum at 2-3 clubs in Oregon.

[Unregistered]

This question to me is flawed. It is possible to develop and win at the same time. The real question is can parents take their Ego's out of the equation and put their kid on the proper team for their childs skill level.

If you put them on an A team they aren't ready for just so they can be on the A team no matter what the team does they will be overwhelmed. I have also seen parents push coaches to put teams into higher leagues because of their Ego, where the team is put in the situation where if they focus on their development they will probably lose most their games and those same parents are upset they are losing everything, or they have to ditch the development just in order to survive the league they are in. Once again its because of ego's not allowing them to be put into a league that is correct for their skill level. I don't care if you are in Premier A, B Div 1 2, whatever it is, as long as you are putting the team in the correct league that they can compete at while working on their skill levels they can both have a successful development year and a positive year with enough wins they feel good about it.

Are there clubs that allow parents to put their kids on any team they want? Every club I've seen places kids based on tryouts (or later evaluations through summer).

From my sideline observations game results seem more important to parents than anything else. This is why you see very few parents watching training, but everyone is there to yell advise during games. I coached rec for a number of years and really wished the parents would come to practice more and games less. Come to practice to watch their development, watch who's causing disruptions, and maybe even lend a hand to the coach. Let the kids have the games for fun without the pressure of moms, dad, grandparents and friends watching them perform (often yelling at them).

Can you imagine this in any other performance? Little Daisy has a piano recital and there's Dad screaming to get on tempo. Johnny is in a play and Mom's there yelling the next line.

Going off topic there. IMO development of soccer skill, and life lessons is paramount. Wins are cool but the kids will forget them in time. The coach that taught them how to deal with disappointment, or how to dig deep and play hard even if you're down and can't win? They'll remember him/her forever

[Unregistered]

Are there clubs that allow parents to put their kids on any team they want? Every club I've seen places kids based on tryouts (or later evaluations through summer).

From my sideline observations game results seem more important to parents than anything else. This is why you see very few parents watching training, but everyone is there to yell advise during games. I coached rec for a number of years and really wished the parents would come to practice more and games less. Come to practice to watch their development, watch who's causing disruptions, and maybe even lend a hand to the coach. Let the kids have the games for fun without the pressure of moms, dad, grandparents and friends watching them perform (often yelling at them).

Can you imagine this in any other performance? Little Daisy has a piano recital and there's Dad screaming to get on tempo. Johnny is in a play and Mom's there yelling the next line.

Going off topic there. IMO development of soccer skill, and life lessons is paramount. Wins are cool but the kids will forget them in time. The coach that taught them how to deal with disappointment, or how to dig deep and play hard even if you're down and can't win? They'll remember him/her forever

You are correct that most clubs have tryouts, but I have seen parents go from one clubs B team and take them to another club just becuase the needed to be on the "A" team and usually its a smaller club who will take anyone they can get to fill out their roster.

[Unregistered]

Winning is everything.

[Unregistered]

Development should be happening at practice. Winning is a result of both exemplary individual and team development. Good coaches don't "develope" players in a game.

[Unregistered]

If your DK is in the top 25% of competitive players, focus on development more. The wining comes later, as in matches, playing in High School, possibly college.

If your DK isn't in that group then it doesn't matter as much, you should still develop in practice but send it long to your sprinter during the matches, don't play it out of the back, anytime your kid is on the other side of the field have them 'boot' as hard as they can anywhere remotely close to the goal. After a while something is bound to bounce in. Celebrate your 2nd place medal from rash at the border or the Chinook Cup, take everyone out for ice cream and pack it in by U14. There is nothing wrong with that either, because 80% of 'competitive' players will end up doing just that.

[Unregistered]

Our team kicked azz last year in a lower bracket. We have a great coach but we also we just in the wrong bracket. This year higher bracket, lost a few, won a few. No one is upset. Everyone knows that's how you get better - even if you lose. It is hard to motivate kids if they're losing all the time.

As a flipside to the above one of my older kids when he was still young had a losing season - almost very game actually. By the following spring we won our bracket. Took time to get there but we had a good and patient coach. Many of those players moved into higher level soccer and have done very well - partly because they started with a good skills foundation and didn't resort to boot ball

[Unregistered]

80%+ of kids quit playing soccer by the end of middle school. Let them enjoy winning something while they are playing, even if it's only the Bronze group at Crash at the Border.

Many of those 80% quit because it is no longer fun riding home with parents who feel the need to critique the performance on their child and teammates. They are tired of being coached from the sidelines by parents who have no idea what team concepts, individual techniques and style of play being taught to them by their coaches.

Having had several children play for a couple of different metro area clubs I have come to the following conclusions:

Research your clubs. They are not all operated with the same degrees of morality. Some are a money grab, some are all about the win's, some are all about development, and some have no direction whatsoever. Go watch games in a couple different age groups and observe the coaching styles. Are they consistant? Then chances are that the club has a plan, curriculum and a desire to DEVELOP. Generally when a coach is constantly coaching from the sidelines avoid the club.

Observe the parents as well as the coaches. Without saying names, there are definitely clubs that do nothing to reel in poor sideline behavior. Once again, it is about the kids. 90% of the parents doing this are club hopping cancers.

Talk to the DOC. If he mentions anything about placement and college, get out (money grab).

Look at where they placed teams in League play. If there is a team playing premier level and isn't competing at all, the club is only concerned about placing a team (regardless of ability) in the Premier divisions. A good DOC will place his/her teams in a division where they should finish middle of the pack. A crappy one will either play his teams down to assure wins, or push for them to be included in a higher division out of pride. No kid will develop getting beaten down 10-0 weekly, or beating someone else down 10-0. They should be engaged and competitive in games they are playing.

Both of my kids ended up at a club that definitely leans development and there have been years where the wins were hard to come by, but they were OK with that. Neither will play D-1, but they still love the game and I couldn't be happier with the choices we have made.

[Unregistered]

Development vs. Wins? The cool think about Oregon ECNL is it gives neither.