MLS = Plastic Futbol

[Unregistered]

Read something from Garber that created a moment of empathy for MLS investment in their academies, but before getting to that . . . .at times MLS is a farce, that lacks so many of the qualities of real soccer league:

-Half the teams making the playoffs,
-poor player pay (other than for overaged foreign players and a couple of national team players),
-poor opportunities for home grown talent . . . Bundesliga starts many more of its own than MLS does, despite also being to attract top international talent)
-draft/combines, which makes it look like the geeky step brother of the NFL
-lack of respect for or alignment with international calendar
-no promotional/relegation
-no solidarity payments/training comp
-prohibition on fan ownership
-a significant % of US SOCCER FANS will not watch MLS on TV, choosing EPL, MX, Champions League, National Team games instead

In so many respects MLS is missing the essence of the game.

Yet the $$$ invested in MLS academies is not small (forget about running leagues, ODP, Thorns Academy locally, those are pay-to-play and in some cases very profitable) and still this happens: http://www.bigdsoccer.com/2016/9/15/...e-loss-schalke
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When asked about the loss FC Dallas suffered in Weston McKennie to Germany power Schalke, Garber was lamented how tough that situation was for everyone involved.

“That one hurt,” explained Garber. “We had a lot of forces that we were working against on signing that player, and that’s the reality of how difficult it is with a player pool at the youth level that continues to attract the attention of very, very aggressive and well-funded international teams.”

Garber continues to explain to the press that there wasn’t much more they could have done in the deal. But the signing of Paxton Pomykal should help soften the blow.

“The player had been in their system for nine years,” said Garber. “So when you look at the investment that goes into supporting that development and then you lose him and get nothing, it makes you scratch your had and wonder, ‘Why are we doing this?’ And then two weeks later you sign Paxton [Pomykal] and you feel a little better about it.”
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MLS is part of a global game, but continues to act like it is in an island (like the NFL). Continues to be this kind of soccer Frankenstein.

Simple answer for Garber with respect to McKennie is to support training comp/solidarity payments - in that case Dallas would be compensated for this loss. That means MLS Academies need to turn around and compensation the Westside's, FC's, Crossfire's, Eastside's, etc. when one of their players signs at the MLS level.

But riding to the fence between a real soccer league and the NFL's geeky step-brother will limit what the MLS can be IMO.

[Unregistered]

Are there any prohibitions on signing players under 18 overseas? I thought that is what Barcelona got into trouble for.

[Unregistered]

I agree with most of your assessments

-no promotional/relegation

Never going to happen in the US, there's not enough leagues and teams to support it. It works great in England where a small country has hundreds of teams and the difference between the top of one league and the bottom of another isn't that great. They also have long histories at all levels so fans will support teams regardless of what level they're playing in. The US has none of that. Pro/reg is always a talking point when people want to compare USSF to other countries, but it's never going to happen in the US. I'm ok with that as long as other aspects are fixed.

-a significant % of US SOCCER FANS will not watch MLS on TV, choosing EPL, MX, Champions League, National Team games instead

Yes there's quite a number of eurosnobs that only watch European football, but I've never had to make a choice between watching and MLS game and a European game. Maybe because most euro games aren't played in the middle of the night? People don't watch MLS because they think it's still like the 90s where Alexi Lalas was running around in baggy shirts. The level of quality is getting better all the time, and hopefully sometime soon they can stop the ex-superstar payday crap and just allow the teams to spend money on quality instead of 20 mid level players a couple of guys making $10-20x what the rest of the team makes.

Simple answer for Garber with respect to McKennie is to support training comp/solidarity payments - in that case Dallas would be compensated for this loss. That means MLS Academies need to turn around and compensation the Westside's, FC's, Crossfire's, Eastside's, etc. when one of their players signs at the MLS level.

But riding to the fence between a real soccer league and the NFL's geeky step-brother will limit what the MLS can be IMO.

I agree, but this will never happen under Garber. He's not going to give up money like that. He's running it like NFL because he's from NFL. I'll give him credit, he did do a lot ot build the league and the salary caps were (are) necessary for parity. Now MLS needs new blood to take it into the future.

[Unregistered]

Are there any prohibitions on signing players under 18 overseas? I thought that is what Barcelona got into trouble for.

Looked it up, he is now 18 (as of August) so no prohibition.

[Unregistered]

I agree with most of your assessments



Never going to happen in the US, there's not enough leagues and teams to support it. It works great in England where a small country has hundreds of teams and the difference between the top of one league and the bottom of another isn't that great. They also have long histories at all levels so fans will support teams regardless of what level they're playing in. The US has none of that. Pro/reg is always a talking point when people want to compare USSF to other countries, but it's never going to happen in the US. I'm ok with that as long as other aspects are fixed.



Yes there's quite a number of eurosnobs that only watch European football, but I've never had to make a choice between watching and MLS game and a European game. Maybe because most euro games aren't played in the middle of the night? People don't watch MLS because they think it's still like the 90s where Alexi Lalas was running around in baggy shirts. The level of quality is getting better all the time, and hopefully sometime soon they can stop the ex-superstar payday crap and just allow the teams to spend money on quality instead of 20 mid level players a couple of guys making $10-20x what the rest of the team makes.




I agree, but this will never happen under Garber. He's not going to give up money like that. He's running it like NFL because he's from NFL. I'll give him credit, he did do a lot ot build the league and the salary caps were (are) necessary for parity. Now MLS needs new blood to take it into the future.

Much of this I agree with.

However, it more than Eurosnobs that watch soccer in the US but not MLS. MX ratings are substantially better than MLS ratings in this country. That is a single segment probably (Mexican-Americans), not Eurosnobs.

The Euro comparison is a little different, but in a nutshell folks will wake up early morning to watch the EPL (and certain extent La Liga and Bundesliga, but not as many) but won't watch MLS in the afternoon or in prime time. Even if it not quite choosing 1 over the other, there is a large # of US soccer fans who simply reject MLS as interesting product on TV. Even when an MLS game follows high rated events like the FA Cup or Community Shield (something Fox has tried a couple of times), significant #s change the channel once MLS comes on.

Also, I'm not sure the onfield quality is improving, although the stadium "experience" has gotten much better (stadiums). Global competition for talent is as tough as it ever has been (who knew the Chinese for example would pay so much for soccer players) and the move from 10 to 20+ teams has had a dilutive effect. I would take Etcheverry over any player that has played in the MLS in the last 5 years, except maybe a Donovan in his prime.

[Unregistered]

I would take Etcheverry over any player that has played in the MLS in the last 5 years, except maybe a Donovan in his prime.

Etcheverry was a big fish in a very, very small pond back in the 90s. A great player, but back then it was 1 great with 10 poor players, now it's 1 or 2 great with 5-6 good, and 4-5 average players. The overall quality is getting better.

Part of the problem MLS still has is that good players have no choice but to leave when they start doing well. Look at Villafana and Wallace from the Timbers, keeping them around would have boosted the overall quality of the team, but salary caps made it impossible to retain them. Adi has one foot out the door and we'll most likely lose the best striker we've ever had because we can't compete financially without depleting the rest of the team. Practically every MLS team has similar players and their leaving keeps the quality down (Oba from Seattle to China, Camilo Sanvezzo to LMX). MLS needs to kill the whole DP, allocation money, secret rules that nobody heard of until LA or Seattle need a star player, and stick to a total salary cap (which should go up each year).

They also need to market better. Their market isn't the necessarily Eurosnobs who'll never change their minds, or even to some extent the Mexican Americans (though this is a ripe demographic that can be tapped if done right). It's the fans of other US sports. Baseball, football, and basketball fans. Get a small portion of them and you'll be doing well. How do they do that? That's the billion dollar question.

I watch MLS because it's (usually) entertaining soccer, but I'm a bit of a freak in that I'll watch pretty much any soccer from EPL and La Liga, to Liga MX, to men's and women's college soccer (as hard as that can be to watch sometimes). I'm also a Timbers fan so I watch all of their games. I admit that I have a harder time watching MLS games that I don't care about vs higher quality, but the game is still beautiful.

[Unregistered]

*****

They also need to market better. Their market isn't the necessarily Eurosnobs who'll never change their minds, or even to some extent the Mexican Americans (though this is a ripe demographic that can be tapped if done right). It's the fans of other US sports. Baseball, football, and basketball fans. Get a small portion of them and you'll be doing well. How do they do that? That's the billion dollar question.

I watch MLS because it's (usually) entertaining soccer, but I'm a bit of a freak in that I'll watch pretty much any soccer from EPL and La Liga, to Liga MX, to men's and women's college soccer (as hard as that can be to watch sometimes). I'm also a Timbers fan so I watch all of their games. I admit that I have a harder time watching MLS games that I don't care about vs higher quality, but the game is still beautiful.

Do you really think the MLS can make a dent in the other big sports in the US? It has been 20 years and it feels like the needle hasn't really moved when it comes to MLS relevance. Soccer is growing in this country, but MLS sure doesn't seem to be winning over other sports' fans (at least on TV; in stadium it can be a cool experience). . .I am not sure how that is ever going to happen.

First couple of MLS seasons, watched pretty much every Timbers game; lately not so much.

[Unregistered]

Do you really think the MLS can make a dent in the other big sports in the US? It has been 20 years and it feels like the needle hasn't really moved when it comes to MLS relevance. Soccer is growing in this country, but MLS sure doesn't seem to be winning over other sports' fans (at least on TV; in stadium it can be a cool experience). . .I am not sure how that is ever going to happen.

First couple of MLS seasons, watched pretty much every Timbers game; lately not so much.

It is an uphill battle against three powerhouses that have dominated the culture for decades. It's also about $ - TV contracts for the big sports are massive because they make the networks MONEY. If the networks saw bigger opportunities in soccer they'd be doing more.

Also, if you grow up in a household that watches those sports, roots for the local teams, your friends and neighbors do similar - it becomes a part of you. I will forever be a Boston sports fan even though I haven't lived in Boston for 20 years. I never played soccer growing up. I enjoy watching a good match but it won't necessarily be the first thing I chose to watch if I have limited time (and who doesn't have limited time?). My kids obviously all play, love watching international teams and will do MLS occassionally. Building a sports culture isn't going to happen over night.

[Unregistered]

from NPR. Maybe this is what MLS has to do. Play 8 year olds

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ntent=20160916

[Unregistered]

from NPR. Maybe this is what MLS has to do. Play 8 year olds

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ntent=20160916

well it would improve their chances in the Champions League, but won't help win over Eurosnops or NFL fans.

[Unregistered]

Here's a nice graph that shows just were MLS fits in revenue wise. You have to look deep down in the tail to find them

http://howmuch.net/articles/sports-leagues-by-revenue

[Unregistered]

Do you really think the MLS can make a dent in the other big sports in the US? It has been 20 years and it feels like the needle hasn't really moved when it comes to MLS relevance. Soccer is growing in this country, but MLS sure doesn't seem to be winning over other sports' fans (at least on TV; in stadium it can be a cool experience). . .I am not sure how that is ever going to happen.

First couple of MLS seasons, watched pretty much every Timbers game; lately not so much.

Most likely candidate is the NBA. MLB is popular for many of the same reason soccer/football is popular all over the world, accessibility. Every park from the burbs to the inner city has a bball court. Every kid in the 90s wanted to be like Mike, and now everyone still has MLB idols. If there were more soccer specific courts (think small sided pickup futsal) in inner city areas and a grassroots effort to bring the game to the people they could attract fans from the NBA (this is long term, so maybe after a decade, and when a big name player comes up from the roots).

MLS is gaining popularity on TV, regardless of their comparisons to the big 3.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/0...espn-platforms

Major League Soccer’s television ratings on ESPN and ESPN2 have increased 32 percent in viewers and 44 percent in television homes over last year, according to the network. And viewership is up 127 percent on the WatchESPN app and 44 percent on ESPN Deportes

In addition, viewership is up in key demographic categories, the network said. Viewership on ESPN/ESPN2 is up 22 percent among men 18-34 in 2016 (66,000, compared to 54,000) and up 13 percent for men 18-49. Among Hispanic viewers viewership on ESPN/ESPN2 is up 14 percent overall and eight percent in the men 18-34.

[Unregistered]

Most likely candidate is the NBA. MLB is popular for many of the same reasons ...

I meant to saw NBA is popular for many of the same reasons ... not MLB. MLB is a mystery to me

[Unregistered]

Most likely candidate is the NBA. MLB is popular for many of the same reason soccer/football is popular all over the world, accessibility. Every park from the burbs to the inner city has a bball court. Every kid in the 90s wanted to be like Mike, and now everyone still has MLB idols. If there were more soccer specific courts (think small sided pickup futsal) in inner city areas and a grassroots effort to bring the game to the people they could attract fans from the NBA (this is long term, so maybe after a decade, and when a big name player comes up from the roots).

MLS is gaining popularity on TV, regardless of their comparisons to the big 3.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/0...espn-platforms

I am not sure why, but 2013-2015 were particularly bad years for MLS Ratings. 2016 is up over 2015, but on par with 2012.

Another painful comparison:

1996-2001 MLS finals had ratings over 1, 4 out of 6 years.
2002-Present not once has MLS finals had rating over 1. Last 3 years it has been around .5.

I don't think there is a long-term positive trend in MLS TV ratings, although attendance has improved substantially the last 10 years (in part from adding teams like the Timbers, Sounders, Caps, Orlando with very strong build in fan base).

[Unregistered]

I am not sure why, but 2013-2015 were particularly bad years for MLS Ratings. 2016 is up over 2015, but on par with 2012.

Another painful comparison:

1996-2001 MLS finals had ratings over 1, 4 out of 6 years.
2002-Present not once has MLS finals had rating over 1. Last 3 years it has been around .5.

I don't think there is a long-term positive trend in MLS TV ratings, although attendance has improved substantially the last 10 years (in part from adding teams like the Timbers, Sounders, Caps, Orlando with very strong build in fan base).

Despite it's name, Major League Soccer is, for all intents and purposes, a minor league. And minor leagues generally don't draw major TV audiences, especially outside the local market. MLS has an advantage over AAA baseball in that it's the top domestic league (AAA ball draws virtually all of its revenue--ignoring subsidies from major-league affiliates--from the local box office, not from media broadcasts), but still--if someone wants to watch soccer on TV and picks a game not involving his favorite team--MLS or EPL? MLS or La Liga? Portland/Seattle or Real/Barca?

That said, the number of first-class leagues isn't that great. Many other countries' top domestic leagues are a notch down from the best European leagues, so MLS has plenty of company. OTOH, most of these leagues have a stable business model and have accepted their place in the soccer firmament: the pro leagues in places like Bolivia or Bosnia--or even richer countries like Japan or South Korea--know they won't ever be as prestigious as the Prem. MLS has this desire/belief that at some point it will have parity with the top European leagues.

And there's a way it could--have large numbers of insanely-wealthy billionaires risking lots of money to attract top-drawer talent over in its prime. Dangle eight-figure salaries in the faces of the world's greatest players. The Chinese pro league is doing just that, with some success--despite that country having a far worse footballing tradition than even the US. (Of course, China's pro sports industry lacks the entrenched competition that MLS faces from baseball, football, hoops and hockey).

But the folks that run MLS aren't willing to risk that sort of coin, and are trying to build the league more slowly. They are having some success--the MLS product is improving. But they have the chicken-and-egg problem of not enough revenue to attract top quality players, and an on-field product that isn't good enough to attract a worldwide following, and the lucrative TV contracts that come with it.