Mount Hood Challenge - Bait and Switch?

[Unregistered]

4 groups of 3.... you play everyone in your bracket with only 2 games. First place team in all 4 brackets goes into the gold, 2nd place teams all go into silver 3rd place goes into bronze. Mike used to do this when he ran the Chinook cup before. It works just fine, but in the current set up lets say you have 6 teams in your bracket, if the true 2 best teams play each other and lets say tie, then its possible both of them end up in the silver bracket instead of the gold.

Plus on another side note seriously all these different brackets and trophies really takes away the pride that comes with actually winning the tournament, but that's just my opinion.

Agreed. That happened last week for the older kids.

[Unregistered]

Agreed. That happened last week for the older kids.

I agree with this also. But I do like the format of playing some bracket games to determine where you stand in the tournament and then moving the teams to the appropriate level. Mt. hood almost does this too much.

Kind of what youth softball does. This helps level out the playing field. We have signed up for Silver divisions and have played teams that obviously do not belong there. Way too strong or way too weak.
I have seen many tournys where the top Silver team is better than half the Gold teams and you wonder how they got there.

And I know hard to do with soccer, they need rests between games whereas softball, they can play 2-4 games in a row. And get the bracketing taken care of in a short time.

[Unregistered]

I agree with this also. But I do like the format of playing some bracket games to determine where you stand in the tournament and then moving the teams to the appropriate level. Mt. hood almost does this too much.

Kind of what youth softball does. This helps level out the playing field. We have signed up for Silver divisions and have played teams that obviously do not belong there. Way too strong or way too weak.
I have seen many tournys where the top Silver team is better than half the Gold teams and you wonder how they got there.

And I know hard to do with soccer, they need rests between games whereas softball, they can play 2-4 games in a row. And get the bracketing taken care of in a short time.

Just thought of the Washington cup. They do that. you go one weekend and play 3 bracket games and then go back up the next weekend and play in your appropriate bracket. I like that format but it does take two weekends.

[Unregistered]

co-mingling baby

Public monies create my million dollar storefront, public monies pay all the property taxes, public monies maintain, clean and keep my store in working order all year so I can have it for the 3 or 4 days I need it exclusively.

What's the cost to me the 'business' owner for this 3 day usage?
a nominal rental rate per hour/day.

What can I charge others to use it while I rent it?

Whatever I want...sweet.

In pushing the envelope with the take all teams, take as many as I can and then having the balls to promote this fact ad-nausem to the soccer community it's clear if you are clever enough you can earn a annual government paycheck without working a day for the government.

Nice.

Here is my dream let me rent the glen jackson I-205 bridge for three days, let's say the toll is typically .50Cents per car to use it...my rental fee to use the bridge is based on this rate as well..here is the kicker I can charge $5 per car during my rental and I put a $1 hood ornament on each car and give you a sticker that's says you're a winner.

Also the interstate bridge on the I-5 is closed for repairs.


The ideology and intent of local youth soccer tournaments are to help subsidize non profit clubs that can't make it without the influx of revenue from terrific fundraisers like these.

Pushing the envelope to 600+ teams while other clubs max out at 200 to 300 doesn't make sense. Unless the hosting club is giving back to it's members something 2 x better than all the other non profits. or if someone is just getting paid instead.

[Unregistered]

Just thought of the Washington cup. They do that. you go one weekend and play 3 bracket games and then go back up the next weekend and play in your appropriate bracket. I like that format but it does take two weekends.

In order to place teams into the appropriate bracket the teams would all have to play the same teams. Otherwise it's not fair as some teams might only have to play 2 crappy teams while others play tougher teams.

[Unregistered]

In order to place teams into the appropriate bracket the teams would all have to play the same teams. Otherwise it's not fair as some teams might only have to play 2 crappy teams while others play tougher teams.

But you also are in Divisions to begin with. So there should not be that big of a difference.
Premier, Gold, Silver, Silver II.

And this is based on a questionnaire that you fill out before hand, where they ask what your team has done this year and what Division do you think the team should be in. No other tournament asks that. They just let you pick your Division and call it good.

[Unregistered]

O.K.

Public monies create my million dollar storefront, public monies pay all the property taxes, public monies maintain, clean and keep my store in working order all year so I can have it for the 3 or 4 days I need it exclusively.

What's the cost to me the 'business' owner for this 3 day usage?
a nominal rental rate per hour/day.

What can I charge others to use it while I rent it?

Whatever I want...sweet.

In pushing the envelope with the take all teams, take as many as I can and then having the balls to promote this fact ad-nausem to the soccer community it's clear if you are clever enough you can earn a annual government paycheck without working a day for the government.

Nice.

Here is my dream let me rent the glen jackson I-205 bridge for three days, let's say the toll is typically .50Cents per car to use it...my rental fee to use the bridge is based on this rate as well..here is the kicker I can charge $5 per car during my rental and I put a $1 hood ornament on each car and give you a sticker that's says you're a winner.

Also the interstate bridge on the I-5 is closed for repairs.


The ideology and intent of local youth soccer tournaments are to help subsidize non profit clubs that can't make it without the influx of revenue from terrific fundraisers like these.

Pushing the envelope to 600+ teams while other clubs max out at 200 to 300 doesn't make sense. Unless the hosting club is giving back to it's members something 2 x better than all the other non profits. or if someone is just getting paid instead.

This is a private venture masked as a public good. Without any of the costs associated with a private business.

Ethics.

[Unregistered]

"Dear diary, I was really looking forward to a great tournament this weekend. As it happens I keep reading those damn blogs. So now instead of joyfull anticipation I am worried about how much these guys are taking us for, where my tax money is spent and how my daughters bracket is set up. Oh ya and to top it off I might be getting charged 5 bucks someday to cross the bridge to get wings at Hooters! I can't sleep -Good night".

[Unregistered]

Think Baseball Tournament

Unlike most Soccer Tournaments, this is run like a double elimination baseball tournament.

Mike works like a dog to re juggle the teams to try to get the match ups to work.

As a manager, I hated this and just did not take the teams to this. To much confusion, but that was just me.

Others love it. Happy for them.

As about money, Mike and Val make a ton for working their ass off for this. They did this at Southside until the board lost their mind and let Val go, then Mike walked.

Good Luck to those teams taking part.

[Unregistered]

It's like anything

When it's out of whack with the norm. People will ask questions.

[Unregistered]

Really

about money, Mike and Val make a ton for working their ass off for this.
.

I remember when Mike & Val invested millions to build all these fields and purchase all the goals and nets. It was risky and gutsy to put so much money out there with no chance of return.

errr...sorry that's not how it happened.

[Unregistered]

I remember when Mike & Val invested millions to build all these fields and purchase all the goals and nets. It was risky and gutsy to put so much money out there with no chance of return.

errr...sorry that's not how it happened.

anyone can rent a fields guys - come on. you just have to contact those in charge and send in a check. not a big deal. Some cases you just go through the city, others the local club is partnered and you work through there field boss. It's the teams and leagues out there that just show up and take it over that cause problems. I have no problem with anyone using my communities fields if they do it the same way everyone else has to.

[Unregistered]

This is a remarkable thread. If it's so easy, then go ahead and do it. It isn't easy. It takes hard work and Morris is good at it. That's why the tournaments he runs are successful while so many others aren't.

For those of you who think the public is getting a raw deal regarding rent or users fees, if there's nothing going on I'm pretty sure the rents or fees generated are zero. All sorts of public facilities are available for those who want to use them. You can rent school fields and gyms, parks, you name it. You'll likely get the same price as Morris does. Whether you like the tournament or not, or agree with its structure or not, if you don't think having 600 teams participating in an event over a weekend isn't good for business (and by extension government i.e., us) then you're mistaken. A bunch of people sitting around at home making sure their tax dollars are used in ways they approve of isn't good for business. A bunch of people doing something is: in more ways than just simple economics.

[Unregistered]

On behalf of all working parents that put up with flighty soccer guy B.S. I have to argue #5 on your list. It is probably precisely the reason he is successful with this tourney.

Actually, MIke has done tournaments for years. Originally he ran the Tigard/Tualatin/Sherwood ("TTS") Chinook Cup as a volunteer; then he was paid to do it, and when TTS disbanded, he recruited his services to other clubs, and became the man for hire for tournaments.

Clubs rely on their tournaments as their biggest fundraiser. Hiring someone outside of the club typically means that there can be an additional incentive for the contractor to bring in as many teams as possible to up his/her $ take per team. A win/win for the club and the contractor. When I tournament hires Mike Morris, I find that I am at the point of being annoyed, so I have to take a deep breath and focus on supporting the club's tournaments. I like the guy but I am extremely irritated with being slammed with his marketing solicitations. I resent that he and TTS's former registrar/admin, Valorie, are able to get email OYSA and OPC contact lists in order to promote tournaments. It would be okay if he used contacts for the current year, but he is sending things to me via two of my email accounts that were set up thirteen and eight years ago, as well as my current email address. This tells me that he is not going by current information provided him by clubs, but is holding on to information well past what I would consider to be ethical use. We are a local club so we know the tournaments and we know which tournaments our teams will apply to during the summer. We also decided not to use Mike's services as we have our own in-staff people and volunteers and we do not use USCS and OYSA to solicit club and team contacts.

I do not appreciate being inundated with initial solicitations, frequent "what are you waiting for?!" follow ups, offers to play for free or at substantial reduced rates for last minute entries. Yes, I have requested that my emails be removed from his "hit list," but nothing has changed in all of these years. Now I red-flag an event when I see these emails and think about the ongoing numbers game. Having worked with our own tournaments, I know that we prefer to book and schedule teams originally signed up by the deadline or offer them options if you don't have enough registered for their bracket.

Bringing in teams to play is the concern of any non-profit club trying to raise money to offset operating expenses, and financial aid. We want to support one another but I hope that Mike and the clubs can find a better way to promote without those darn nuisance emails. Mike, please limit the emails or else make phone calls to specific teams.

BTW, I am still trying to visualize Mike playing soccer! Nice guy though.

[Unregistered]

It's a community 'good' the fields and yes they come at a cost to rent.

Non-Profits get a rate far less than the private consumer at all fields.
Retail rental rents will apply if you are running a private event/tournament. City/School will ask what's the gross of you event in dollars and will take a big percentage, in addition to the rental field. That's not happening here. They hide behind a non-profit label.

That's is an issue. It's one thing to have 25 people pitch in $5 a head to use the field for an hour, that's the intended use.

Now if I invite the same 25 people, charge the $50 each to use the field for an hour (while I still pay the non-profit rate of $5 an hour per person) an give them a bumper sticker, a ref + a team photo throw in a medal is that the intended use of the park for me to run a business off taxpayers intention to provide a community field?

I suggest everyone try this make some money obviously you have to work a bit-- but the margins are insane and you no real investment as the #1 commodity is a field.

If they field usage cost is to scale with revenue generated then I'm all for it.

We will end up with a more profitable government and more chances to have more fields built and used by the public.

The person just doing administration of games on a field shouldn't be the financial winner. Unless he/she owns the field.