How do you judge quality? (context please)

[Unregistered]

There is constant talk on this forum about which clubs are of better quality, which coaches, which players, etc...

However, when talking about the "quality" of anything, it is important to put it in context.

How are you measuring quality? Are you comparing mediocre with mediocre? or are you comparing to the gold standard? How do you make that distinction?

What makes a quality youth coach? A successful playing career? Coaching licenses? Results? Fun practices? Hard practices?

What makes a quality club? Size of membership? Number of Championships?

What about a quality player? Stats (goals, assists, etc.)? Athleticism? Championships?

Remember, context is key.

[Unregistered]

Quality Club

First, a quality club is well organized and their governing board is populated with persons with both business and organizational skills.

Second, a quality club communicates often and transparently with the members so that everybody knows what the mission is, where the club is on that mission and what needs to be done to get where everybody has agreed they want to go.

Third, a quality club is fiscally prudent and spends it money wisely on staff and activities that allow it to meet the goals of the club.

Fourth, a quality club has a DOC that is as much of a coach of coaches as an executive of coaches. In other words the DOC should be building the coaching knowledge base as much as telling them where to and when to be and which tournament to enter.

Fifth, a quality club should have a reputation for quality results on the field with players exhibiting good sportsmanship in the process of winning AND losing.

Lastly a quality club values those paying the bills as the customer and listens to their concerns and addresses them when possible.

Not sure any of the Metro clubs measures up but!

[Unregistered]

First, a quality club is well organized and their governing board is populated with persons with both business and organizational skills.

Second, a quality club communicates often and transparently with the members so that everybody knows what the mission is, where the club is on that mission and what needs to be done to get where everybody has agreed they want to go.

Third, a quality club is fiscally prudent and spends it money wisely on staff and activities that allow it to meet the goals of the club.

Fourth, a quality club has a DOC that is as much of a coach of coaches as an executive of coaches. In other words the DOC should be building the coaching knowledge base as much as telling them where to and when to be and which tournament to enter.

Fifth, a quality club should have a reputation for quality results on the field with players exhibiting good sportsmanship in the process of winning AND losing.

Lastly a quality club values those paying the bills as the customer and listens to their concerns and addresses them when possible.

Not sure any of the Metro clubs measures up but!

Great analysis.

Cheap, Good or Fast. Pick any two you want.

[Unregistered]

Quality Coach

This one is a little more subject as the mixture of the personalities of the Coach, Player and Parents all produce different "chemical" results.

A quality coach is different at different stages of a player’s development. What makes a great U6-U10 is very different than what makes a quality coach U11-14 and again different U15+.

For the U6-10 level a quality coach has a infectious enthusiasm for the game and a high degree of patience. They must also have a base understanding of what each individual player is capable of at each stage and only ask that they master what they are physically and emotionally able. This does not mean that they should only teach the long ball game just that they need to understand the physical limitations of the young body and mind and not frustrate or discourage the player with requests for performance beyond their individual stage of development.

For the U11-14 level a quality coach is one who builds upon the foundation each player comes with. to do this a quality coach is going to sit down with the player and parents and develop a written set of goals and outline the players strengths and weakness and develops and improvement program that includes activities in practice and on their own. This coach will also work on tactical components of the game and how the players individual movements contribute to successful play.

A U11-14 coach must also deal with the physical changes children experience during these years and work with each player to maintain their enthusiasm for the game as changing bodies often require players to change how they play as they get taller, some time less coordinated and even slower. They must communicate that soccer is more than running faster than everybody else and that game IQ is equally important in their on field success. This coach typically should have been a successful collegiate player but it’s possible to substitute many years on the sidelines and coaching clinic's to be equally qualified

A quality U15+ coach asks the player to be more part of a team effort during the game and to work more on their game on an individual basis. A quality U15+ coach needs to develop a player’s game IQ which should include expanding field vision and building an understanding of where the ball is going to go 3 passes ahead. This coach is going to develop a improvement program that pushes the player beyond their comfort zone which is when we find out who really wants to go to the next level.

This coach should have played at the highest level collegiately and possibly professionally but most important is that they have to be a student of the game to help these players perfect their individual technique and game IQ. They should hold an A license or have a resume of successful team play outside the Metro area that is proof they can elevate the level of play of their charges.

[Unregistered]

Quality club

The way you determine quality is by looking at the end product.
In soccer the end product is the player.
A quality soccer player is an individual that has qualities to become a professional soccer player.
A quality club is a club that knows how to assign quality coaches who know how to produce quality soccer players.

[Unregistered]

You have the Cart before the Horse

The way you determine quality is by looking at the end product.
In soccer the end product is the player.
A quality soccer player is an individual that has qualities to become a professional soccer player.
A quality club is a club that knows how to assign quality coaches who know how to produce quality soccer players.

Weak or bad clubs do not have or attract good coaches however they do get a year or two with quality players before they and their parents figure out that the product does not match the label!

[Unregistered]

A carefully poked stick in the fire.

Wow, good stuff. The question that I would throw out their is how do you compare a club that grows all their players from within, versus a club that recruits players from outside?

Which is better?

(this is not meant to launch a firestorm of name calling, it is only meant to discuss two abstract clubs, one that builds all teams with players who have come up through the ranks, and is focused on individual growth, and one that recruits all the stars from other clubs with their goal being super teams, knowing that on a super team the development of the team members may be greater.)

[Unregistered]

No "complete" clubs in Oregon

Wow, good stuff. The question that I would throw out their is how do you compare a club that grows all their players from within, versus a club that recruits players from outside?

Which is better?

(this is not meant to launch a firestorm of name calling, it is only meant to discuss two abstract clubs, one that builds all teams with players who have come up through the ranks, and is focused on individual growth, and one that recruits all the stars from other clubs with their goal being super teams, knowing that on a super team the development of the team members may be greater.)

The reason that players have to move between clubs is that not a single club in Oregon has a complete roster of qualified top flight coaches at all of the age groups. Since most Oregon clubs are dominated by their DOC who tend to have preferences where to concentrate their efforts to recruit both coaches and players. The ones that focus on the earlier years tend to a good job but struggle to keep the best coaches for the later years and vice versa.

It's a natural progression and should not be a reflection upon their worthiness as a club. After all if the clubs where the players "started' were doing a better J O B at the older ages then there would be no reason to switch....right!

It's a false analysis that is only applied to soccer because I have yet to hear someone criticize a basketball player or football player for moving from Junior High to Senior high or going to a different summer camp.

The best advice I ever received when getting into soccer was to have my player play with the best coach of a competitive regardless of how far I had to drive. Oh and remember the loyalty the club has to your player exists only as long as the checks clear!

[Unregistered]

The way you determine quality is by looking at the end product.
In soccer the end product is the player.
A quality soccer player is an individual that has qualities to become a professional soccer player.
A quality club is a club that knows how to assign quality coaches who know how to produce quality soccer players.

I see where you are going here, but you left out the context:

What should we be looking for in that "end product" player? What are the qualities that one must have to "become a professional soccer player"?

How do you determine whether the club "knows how to assign quality coaches" that "know how to produce quality soccer players"?

What does it look like when a coach "produces" a quality player? Was the player quality before they got to the coach? What if the coach actually hindered the growth of the player, but the player was still better than the people around him/her? Could you tell the difference?

[Unregistered]

Videos

Okay, let's try this. Here are some videos. What are you observations? Who is the best player on the field? Why? What do you notice about the way the teams play? Which is better? Why?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-ArjYfafkoQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XV7JDPqkrv8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9qS8cCXIn-I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Unregistered]

Okay, let's try this. Here are some videos. What are you observations? Who is the best player on the field? Why? What do you notice about the way the teams play? Which is better? Why?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-ArjYfafkoQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XV7JDPqkrv8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9qS8cCXIn-I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

OK, I spent only a few minutes watching the first 2 videos, but here's who stood out to me on the red team. First video - #22 CM played it quickly...1 or 2 touch...saw 1 defensive lapse as he dove in. #s 7 & 28 had good foot skills...I would've liked to watch more to see the ball at their feet, but didn't have time.

Second video - #17 (i think). Wow...the ball stuck to his feet, never leaving more than 20 inches from his body as he moved. Very messi-like. Set-up the goal I saw...drove into a defender who had to then commit, but 17 quickly back-heeled it into the space he had just created...shot & goal by a teammate.

I didn't see much from white, but again I didn't spend much time watching. Red ran circles around white with their ball movement. Is it better? Yes, I think so. They had the skills to move the ball around. Even if they had to resort to direct-play (long ball), they possessed a greater foundation of skills from which to base their style of play.

[Unregistered]

I see where you are going here, but you left out the context:

What should we be looking for in that "end product" player? What are the qualities that one must have to "become a professional soccer player"?

How do you determine whether the club "knows how to assign quality coaches" that "know how to produce quality soccer players"?

What does it look like when a coach "produces" a quality player? Was the player quality before they got to the coach? What if the coach actually hindered the growth of the player, but the player was still better than the people around him/her? Could you tell the difference?

Lotsa of good questions...no perfect answers, but here's my 2 cents regarding qualities.

Necessary skills to be a good player:
-Ability to kill the ball...stop it dead on the turf regardless of how it comes to the player. At the next game you attend, watch how many trapping attempts end up given away or bouncing 3 yards from their body. If you don't have the ball or need to take extras seconds to control, then it's hard to create.

- Ability to easily use both feet and burst with the ball left or right.

- Core strength and the ability to use your body to your advantage.

- Passion...do they want to be there? Have a willingness to try new things.

There are few coaches that I see who teach this, as they either don't have the time or can't or won't. I would look for the coach vs. look for the club. All clubs have good & bad coaches. Watch some practices and games of coaches who are likely to coach your kids age group the following year.

[Unregistered]

Judging quality of the player is based on how tolerable the parents are

[Unregistered]

Looking in the mirror?

Judging quality of the player is based on how tolerable the parents are

Spoken with all the wisdom and patience of a volunteer coach. If you have a superior player and don't have the skills to handle the parents it is YOU who doesn't have the skills necessary to develop quality players!

Grow a set or hang up your cleats!