Do parents really understand the fine line between development and results?

[Unregistered]

Even though the DOCs all have different backgrounds and experiences, many said the biggest challenge is the parent who believes he or she is an expert in player development. There is a fine line between satisfying the paying client and developing the youth soccer player for the nuturing parent. Even a diplomat from the United Nations could find this challenging.

Billy Garton, DOC at CV Manchester inspired this article, and he explains that some parents have a skewed view of soccer because of the influences of traditional American sports such as football and baseball. Parents tend to see the marquee positions of quarterback, for instance, and equate it a specific position on the soccer field, such as forward. Parents tend to want their child to “star” and do not always see other positions, such as defenders, as acceptable. Billy Garton, a former professional defender, understandably doubts this perspective and often says he doesn't question parents' professional expertise and believes DOCs deserves the same respect.

Echoing his co-DOC Jeff Illinworth, Garton explains, “We’re not experts at many things, but there is one little niche we are good at and that is coaching soccer and developing soccer players.” Parents need to allow the coaches to coach with confidence and not second guess them. After all, that is why parents bring their children to these clubs in the first place – to develop kids into the best players they can be.

[Unregistered]

Even though the DOCs all have different backgrounds and experiences, many said the biggest challenge is the parent who believes he or she is an expert in player development. There is a fine line between satisfying the paying client and developing the youth soccer player for the nuturing parent. Even a diplomat from the United Nations could find this challenging.

Billy Garton, DOC at CV Manchester inspired this article, and he explains that some parents have a skewed view of soccer because of the influences of traditional American sports such as football and baseball. Parents tend to see the marquee positions of quarterback, for instance, and equate it a specific position on the soccer field, such as forward. Parents tend to want their child to “star” and do not always see other positions, such as defenders, as acceptable. Billy Garton, a former professional defender, understandably doubts this perspective and often says he doesn't question parents' professional expertise and believes DOCs deserves the same respect.

Echoing his co-DOC Jeff Illinworth, Garton explains, “We’re not experts at many things, but there is one little niche we are good at and that is coaching soccer and developing soccer players.” Parents need to allow the coaches to coach with confidence and not second guess them. After all, that is why parents bring their children to these clubs in the first place – to develop kids into the best players they can be.

Totally agree with the 'Star' vs defender comment. My DD plays defender and loves it. She understands that most goals they score start with a good defense stand. Now, if we can just get the forwards to understand they have to defend too, we will have something special. :)

[Unregistered]

This should be a fun thread.

I don't think that we often do look at the big picture. The worst offenders are the parents who have the first child going through the whole soccer thing. Just look at the U12 thread and the parents who defend being on a team of 18 players.

Winning is fun for kids and parents. However it is much more important to the parents than the kids. For example, if your kid had a game this weekend and your kid is 12 or younger, ask them who won. It's just Tuesday but I would not be surprised if over half the kids say "I don't remember." But the parents remember. I say be on a team that is at the right level to be competitive as a team and where your kid is being challenged but not overwhelmed. Celebrate with them when you see them developing and don't make winning or losing a big deal. Be excited for winning, but more excited that they have more confidence being on the ball.

[Unregistered]

Even though the DOCs all have different backgrounds and experiences, many said the biggest challenge is the parent who believes he or she is an expert in player development. There is a fine line between satisfying the paying client and developing the youth soccer player for the nuturing parent. Even a diplomat from the United Nations could find this challenging.

Billy Garton, DOC at CV Manchester inspired this article, and he explains that some parents have a skewed view of soccer because of the influences of traditional American sports such as football and baseball. Parents tend to see the marquee positions of quarterback, for instance, and equate it a specific position on the soccer field, such as forward. Parents tend to want their child to “star” and do not always see other positions, such as defenders, as acceptable. Billy Garton, a former professional defender, understandably doubts this perspective and often says he doesn't question parents' professional expertise and believes DOCs deserves the same respect.

Echoing his co-DOC Jeff Illinworth, Garton explains, “We’re not experts at many things, but there is one little niche we are good at and that is coaching soccer and developing soccer players.” Parents need to allow the coaches to coach with confidence and not second guess them. After all, that is why parents bring their children to these clubs in the first place – to develop kids into the best players they can be.

All valid points and I can appreciate the frustration. I have coached, and still coach, other sports, and geez it can be nerve wracking at times! However, I'll phrase the question a bit differently: Do coaches really understand that results should not come at the expense of development? All too often at the younger ages, when players (to me at least) should be experiencing all facets of the game, coaches focus on the results only "for the betterment of the team." Trust me, I appreciate the team mentality, but that can stifle development. I have gone through this with a number of kids, and it is amazing to me how many forwards go 5-7 years without playing a lick of defense or a defender going 5-7 years without playing a lick of mid or forward. How can that be good? While there obviously are a fair amount of parents who expect their Johnny of Jill to be the stars and on the ball all the time, I believe there are more parents who simply get frustrated because their child doesn't get the well-rounded development that should be promoted.

In Oregon, when I look at the leagues and see parents complaining about a meaningless score after the coach has tried many different things and had players playing out of their "normal" positions, it infuriates me. On the other hand, it infuriates me equally when the coach doesn't develop players because he/she feels he must win every meaningless game.

[Unregistered]

This should be a fun thread.

I don't think that we often do look at the big picture. The worst offenders are the parents who have the first child going through the whole soccer thing. Just look at the U12 thread and the parents who defend being on a team of 18 players.

Winning is fun for kids and parents. However it is much more important to the parents than the kids. For example, if your kid had a game this weekend and your kid is 12 or younger, ask them who won. It's just Tuesday but I would not be surprised if over half the kids say "I don't remember." But the parents remember. I say be on a team that is at the right level to be competitive as a team and where your kid is being challenged but not overwhelmed. Celebrate with them when you see them developing and don't make winning or losing a big deal. Be excited for winning, but more excited that they have more confidence being on the ball.

I agree with everything in your post except for the part about most kids not knowing who won the game a few days prior. Most of the competitive kids I know remember who won and lost. They tend to remember it for the next time they play that team.

[Wolves FC]

totally agree with everything you said, but you also mentioned that they are paying clients too. Back home is England thats not the model we play by and I have said before it should be the ability to play not pay. That way you get kids from many backgrounds playing by the pay method Pele, Maradonna, George Best,Zidane and many more players would have not made it to the heights they have. Look at all the African players coming through now they didnt get there by paying for it.

your point is well made though and I truly believe its development not results that will bring the game forward. And if you develop the kids right the results will come the competition will get better and you will still loose games but they will be hard fought and well played games and again the result wont matter because everyone will be talking about how great that game was

[Unregistered]

Totally agree with the 'Star' vs defender comment. My DD plays defender and loves it. She understands that most goals they score start with a good defense stand. Now, if we can just get the forwards to understand they have to defend too, we will have something special. :)

I can't agree more. My daughter is a forward and she will tell you that I harp on her all the time that she needs to play stronger defense. She needs to track back and help out to win the ball then then bust forward to get in on the attack. Great offense comes from playing tough defense. When college coaches go to games to recruit, they notice if a player hustles on offense and on defense. If a player only hustles when they are on offense, that is a red flag for them.

[Unregistered]

Totally agree with the 'Star' vs defender comment. My DD plays defender and loves it. She understands that most goals they score start with a good defense stand. Now, if we can just get the forwards to understand they have to defend too, we will have something special. :)

Now that I have gone through this with a few kids and am ohhh so much wiser now :), I would strongly encourage all you parents with the little goal scoring machine at U10 - U13 to insist that your child play all over the field. You will be surprised at how quickly that goal scorer becomes one dimensional in later years if not properly developed, and the coaches and parents have done the player a disservice.

[Unregistered]

Almost agree ..

This should be a fun thread.

I don't think that we often do look at the big picture. The worst offenders are the parents who have the first child going through the whole soccer thing. Just look at the U12 thread and the parents who defend being on a team of 18 players.

Winning is fun for kids and parents. However it is much more important to the parents than the kids. For example, if your kid had a game this weekend and your kid is 12 or younger, ask them who won. It's just Tuesday but I would not be surprised if over half the kids say "I don't remember." But the parents remember. I say be on a team that is at the right level to be competitive as a team and where your kid is being challenged but not overwhelmed. Celebrate with them when you see them developing and don't make winning or losing a big deal. Be excited for winning, but more excited that they have more confidence being on the ball.

Developing players is a worthy goal and if it's done properly, will result in some winning. But not winning at the cost of the players. Winning and performance is serious business to players. My DD and her teammates, could probably tell you the score and which team won from games played over 5 years ago. She and her teammates have done that since they started keeping score in games. I would wonder a bit at players that don't know results as to what else are they forgetting by not being interested enough to take notice. Like things the coach is trying to do with them.

One local club likes to (cynically) tell parents that we will develop players first and win later in high school ages. Sounds great, keeps parents from making too much of won-loss records. That's a good thing. Now, if they only could magically just turn it on at U-15, great. But without a concept of winning over the years, the U-15 to U-18 teams don't win, they just do OK.

Your comment about a roster of 18 falls on deaf ears. My DD played on teams with rosters typically full year after year. Occasionally players can't make practices or games. If everyone shows up, decent scrimmages can be held, (assuming two goalkeepers and 16 field players). On any given team, 2 or 3 are new to the team and just learning the style of play. Two or 3 are finding limited success and are becoming disinterested. This doesn't leave a lot of motivated, developing players to field a game team. One of the worst things about playing a game is having one or two players on the pitch that can't adequately play their position to the detriment of the whole team. My DD absolutely hates this situation. But, do want you want, but please don't think that parents allowing their DD to play on a team with a full roster don't know what they're doing, they may know far mote than you.

[Unregistered]

Developing players is a worthy goal and if it's done properly, will result in some winning. But not winning at the cost of the players. Winning and performance is serious business to players. My DD and her teammates, could probably tell you the score and which team won from games played over 5 years ago. She and her teammates have done that since they started keeping score in games. I would wonder a bit at players that don't know results as to what else are they forgetting by not being interested enough to take notice. Like things the coach is trying to do with them.

One local club likes to (cynically) tell parents that we will develop players first and win later in high school ages. Sounds great, keeps parents from making too much of won-loss records. That's a good thing. Now, if they only could magically just turn it on at U-15, great. But without a concept of winning over the years, the U-15 to U-18 teams don't win, they just do OK.

Your comment about a roster of 18 falls on deaf ears. My DD played on teams with rosters typically full year after year. Occasionally players can't make practices or games. If everyone shows up, decent scrimmages can be held, (assuming two goalkeepers and 16 field players). On any given team, 2 or 3 are new to the team and just learning the style of play. Two or 3 are finding limited success and are becoming disinterested. This doesn't leave a lot of motivated, developing players to field a game team. One of the worst things about playing a game is having one or two players on the pitch that can't adequately play their position to the detriment of the whole team. My DD absolutely hates this situation. But, do want you want, but please don't think that parents allowing their DD to play on a team with a full roster don't know what they're doing, they may know far mote than you.

If your kid was on a team of 18 at U12 then you did them a big disservice.

[Unregistered]

Developing players is a worthy goal and if it's done properly, will result in some winning. But not winning at the cost of the players. Winning and performance is serious business to players. My DD and her teammates, could probably tell you the score and which team won from games played over 5 years ago. She and her teammates have done that since they started keeping score in games. I would wonder a bit at players that don't know results as to what else are they forgetting by not being interested enough to take notice. Like things the coach is trying to do with them.

One local club likes to (cynically) tell parents that we will develop players first and win later in high school ages. Sounds great, keeps parents from making too much of won-loss records. That's a good thing. Now, if they only could magically just turn it on at U-15, great. But without a concept of winning over the years, the U-15 to U-18 teams don't win, they just do OK.

Your comment about a roster of 18 falls on deaf ears. My DD played on teams with rosters typically full year after year. Occasionally players can't make practices or games. If everyone shows up, decent scrimmages can be held, (assuming two goalkeepers and 16 field players). On any given team, 2 or 3 are new to the team and just learning the style of play. Two or 3 are finding limited success and are becoming disinterested. This doesn't leave a lot of motivated, developing players to field a game team. One of the worst things about playing a game is having one or two players on the pitch that can't adequately play their position to the detriment of the whole team. My DD absolutely hates this situation. But, do want you want, but please don't think that parents allowing their DD to play on a team with a full roster don't know what they're doing, they may know far mote than you.

this 18 player roster is comical...especially at younger ages....a true system like the one my DD plays on is a true "A" "B" team format...both teams squad train...that's where you get your numbers from.....at gametime no U-11 or 12 team should carry more than 15 on a 11v11 basis.....completely rediculous!

[Unregistered]

Developing players is a worthy goal and if it's done properly, will result in some winning. But not winning at the cost of the players. Winning and performance is serious business to players. My DD and her teammates, could probably tell you the score and which team won from games played over 5 years ago. She and her teammates have done that since they started keeping score in games. I would wonder a bit at players that don't know results as to what else are they forgetting by not being interested enough to take notice. Like things the coach is trying to do with them.

One local club likes to (cynically) tell parents that we will develop players first and win later in high school ages. Sounds great, keeps parents from making too much of won-loss records. That's a good thing. Now, if they only could magically just turn it on at U-15, great. But without a concept of winning over the years, the U-15 to U-18 teams don't win, they just do OK.

Your comment about a roster of 18 falls on deaf ears. My DD played on teams with rosters typically full year after year. Occasionally players can't make practices or games. If everyone shows up, decent scrimmages can be held, (assuming two goalkeepers and 16 field players). On any given team, 2 or 3 are new to the team and just learning the style of play. Two or 3 are finding limited success and are becoming disinterested. This doesn't leave a lot of motivated, developing players to field a game team. One of the worst things about playing a game is having one or two players on the pitch that can't adequately play their position to the detriment of the whole team. My DD absolutely hates this situation. But, do want you want, but please don't think that parents allowing their DD to play on a team with a full roster don't know what they're doing, they may know far mote than you.

Run, don't walk, from a team with a coach who dwells on winning at the U10-14 ages. You want to win a state cup or a major tourney? Fine, no problem, within reason. However, operating with the goal of just winning every game at those ages, e.g., spring league, winter league, at the expense of developing the players is just nonsense. And if you believe it helps your kid in the long run to have him/her simply play one position at those ages just so the team can win every game? Well, you're just wrong.

[Unregistered]

Developing players is a worthy goal and if it's done properly, will result in some winning. But not winning at the cost of the players. Winning and performance is serious business to players. My DD and her teammates, could probably tell you the score and which team won from games played over 5 years ago.

Probably because daddy is reminding them, and explaining to them how winning and performance are "serious business" at U11 - U13.

[Unregistered]

What?

Run, don't walk, from a team with a coach who dwells on winning at the U10-14 ages. You want to win a state cup or a major tourney? Fine, no problem, within reason. However, operating with the goal of just winning every game at those ages, e.g., spring league, winter league, at the expense of developing the players is just nonsense. And if you believe it helps your kid in the long run to have him/her simply play one position at those ages just so the team can win every game? Well, you're just wrong.

You quoted a post that didn't talk about winning as a goal, but yet that's all you talk about. The post didn't talk about just playing one position, in fact, with a larger roster the player will probably get a chance to move about. Your comments are just fine, but you seem to be trying to say that the post was wrong. How could you possibly infer that?

[Unregistered]

Stupid

Probably because daddy is reminding them, and explaining to them how winning and performance are "serious business" at U11 - U13.

If your player doesn't remember results or what the coaches are saying and doing, fine. Just don't think your player will play for very much longer. Let me put it another way, my DD isn't stupid.