Mt Hood Challenge

[Unregistered]

LOL. I think it is valid to complain about referee issues, and lack of provided game balls. But really, the format? LOL.

You knew the format going in. It is the same format since Chinook Cup. If you don't like it, why play in it? Find another tourney, do something you can control and go play elsewhere.

If MM listens to you, changes the format, there will be that many people more whining and complaining to change it back. It is simply one of many ways to format brackets. Like it, play in it. Don't like it, don't.

The WSM tourney had you play the teams only in the opposing bracket, and this is how you were ranked to move on or not. You never got to play anyone in your bracket but once tops. It was weird, hated it, but we signed up for it. I don't expect John Bain to tailor his tourney around my wants and needs.

But then again, I guess some of us do think the soccer world revolves around us and only us.

[Unregistered]

LOL. I think it is valid to complain about referee issues, and lack of provided game balls. But really, the format? LOL.

You knew the format going in. It is the same format since Chinook Cup. If you don't like it, why play in it? Find another tourney, do something you can control and go play elsewhere.

If MM listens to you, changes the format, there will be that many people more whining and complaining to change it back. It is simply one of many ways to format brackets. Like it, play in it. Don't like it, don't.

The WSM tourney had you play the teams only in the opposing bracket, and this is how you were ranked to move on or not. You never got to play anyone in your bracket but once tops. It was weird, hated it, but we signed up for it. I don't expect John Bain to tailor his tourney around my wants and needs.

But then again, I guess some of us do think the soccer world revolves around us and only us.

Complaining about the format is something that can actually be resolved. In all fairness MM has no control over how good or bad the refs are. If you have 4 teams in each bracket then you would assume each team would play 3 pool games. There is no reason for each team to only play 2 pool games and then some go to quarters and 2 are automatically in the semi's. It is unfair as not every team in a bracket played the same teams. Having 3 pool games solves that problem. I understand he is catering to the rec teams where everyone should win but it's ridiculous.

[Unregistered]

Your Point is Ridiculous

Complaining about the format is something that can actually be resolved. In all fairness MM has no control over how good or bad the refs are. If you have 4 teams in each bracket then you would assume each team would play 3 pool games. There is no reason for each team to only play 2 pool games and then some go to quarters and 2 are automatically in the semi's. It is unfair as not every team in a bracket played the same teams. Having 3 pool games solves that problem. I understand he is catering to the rec teams where everyone should win but it's ridiculous.

What difference could it possibly make whether you plan all three teams in a bracket? What if he'd set up 3 team brackets? Then you'd have played everybody in your bracket and you'd be in exactly the same spot. You go to the tournament, play the games, do your best and hopefully have a good time. Complaining about the structure is silly. His method also tends to better match evenly placed teams in that third game. If your team is in a bracket where it got pounded the first two games, it's likely to be matched up against a team that also got pounded. If you won the games, you'll play against other teams that won their games. Relax, it's a youth soccer tournament.

[Unregistered]

Not bad

My team had a great time and did well in the tournament. Competition was at the right level for the most part. There always seems to be a team or two that is playing down which is unfortunate. I was impressed with the sportsmanship and integrity of the coaches we competed against until our championship game. The coaches on the other team were very disrespectful to the players, me and to the game.

Every field we played on was bone dry. The referees were very inconsistent and often did not take control of the game. I had one referee give the opposing team a PK for what was essentially a body check for a 50/50 ball near the outside of the box. It was nowhere near a goal-scoring opportunity. Our game would have been a shutout if it weren’t for that call and cost us a point. Fortunately, we didn’t find ourselves in a position were points counted. All in all, I realize these were mostly young kids refereeing the games and I don’t want to be overly critical unless there are safety issues or calls that directly affect the outcome of the game.

I think that the losers of the semifinals should have an opportunity to play a second game on Sunday for a third place medal (and distinction of overall 3rd 4th place finish) It seems unfair that the losers of the quarterfinals have a shot at getting some hardware in the consolation finals when the overall third/fourth place teams don’t.

What I didn’t like about the tournament is overshadowed by the fact we had wonderful time and found success.

[Unregistered]

What difference could it possibly make whether you plan all three teams in a bracket? What if he'd set up 3 team brackets? Then you'd have played everybody in your bracket and you'd be in exactly the same spot. You go to the tournament, play the games, do your best and hopefully have a good time. Complaining about the structure is silly. His method also tends to better match evenly placed teams in that third game. If your team is in a bracket where it got pounded the first two games, it's likely to be matched up against a team that also got pounded. If you won the games, you'll play against other teams that won their games. Relax, it's a youth soccer tournament.

Let's say there are 4 teams in your bracket, team A, B, C, and D. Team A, B, and C are tough teams. Team A only plays C and D. Team B has to play A and C. Team A has the advantage because they were able to play a weaker team (D) and get to be seeded higher because of it. In order for it all to be fair all teams HAVE to play the exact same teams.

[Unregistered]

No

Let's say there are 4 teams in your bracket, team A, B, C, and D. Team A, B, and C are tough teams. Team A only plays C and D. Team B has to play A and C. Team A has the advantage because they were able to play a weaker team (D) and get to be seeded higher because of it. In order for it all to be fair all teams HAVE to play the exact same teams.

to be unfair you would have to know that going in and purposefully get the seeds wrong to favor one team over another. Otherwise, it's just the way it goes. It's no different than being in a tough group vs. being in a weak group and having to play everybody. That's why you show up and play whoever is on your schedule and do the best you can -- without complaining.

[Unregistered]

I'm a referee, hear me out.

I'm going to be honest, I'm a younger referee myself (under 20). I will tell you that I refereed MHC, and I will be honest and tell you I may have made some mistakes. But I think what parents and spectators tend to forget, is just like all humans, we all make mistakes. We as referees are paid to regulate the game, and keep it safe and fun. I recognize that it may be frustrating as a parent when you have a younger referee, but I will say that patience and respect is key. They are just trying to learn and improve as officials, just as your children are trying to improve their soccer. Let me tell you, it takes guts to stand out there and have people question your every decision. Yes, we get paid, but its a difficult job under (sometimes) pretty high pressure. I'm NOT saying that referees always get it right, or that we are higher above you just because we have a whistle. What I will say is that many referees that have the opportunity to be good or are good, have been abused, and so you lose many of the good referees due to abusive coaches or parents. One piece of advice I will give to any new (or even veteran) parent is to learn the rules of the game. Key things I often hear about that are wrong are:
-Just because a player falls does not mean they were fouled
-being in an offsides POSITION does not always mean you have committed the offsides foul
-the role of the ARs: they help make some of the calls, but that in the end a center can always overrule or side with an AR (it all depends who had a better view of the play)

Those are just a few. Look, I'm not going to say that every referee is perfect, and a referee should never insert themselves into the game unneccesarily. You deserve good officiating, but, I will tell you that with over 1000 games and 2000 positions, only 5 were completely missed or empty (official numbers given to us by our assignor). So please, the next time you see a yellow shirt, don't groan, we are just trying our best, and ever game we officiate we learn, and we get better.

[Unregistered]

Your four-team bracket

Let's say there are 4 teams in your bracket, team A, B, C, and D. Team A, B, and C are tough teams. Team A only plays C and D. Team B has to play A and C. Team A has the advantage because they were able to play a weaker team (D) and get to be seeded higher because of it. In order for it all to be fair all teams HAVE to play the exact same teams.

For one, if Team A plays C and D, then Team B also has to play C and D (not A and C). In addition, Team C plays A and B.

Next, to check on "fairness", one can play out the match scenarios and make the assumption that the better team always wins and does better against opponents in common. For example, if A is the best team and B is better than C, then the top two teams move on toward the championship. If A is the best team and C is better than B, then the top two teams move on toward the championship. If B is the best team and A is better than C, then the top two teams move on toward the championship. If C is the best team and A is better than B, then the top two teams move on toward the championship. I think you can see a pattern here.

There are, of course, many different scenarios. The bottom line is that it actually works out well in theory, even if teams in a four-team bracket only play two pool matches before deciding the 1st and 2nd place teams.

[Unregistered]

Let's say there are 4 teams in your bracket, team A, B, C, and D. Team A, B, and C are tough teams. Team A only plays C and D. Team B has to play A and C. Team A has the advantage because they were able to play a weaker team (D) and get to be seeded higher because of it. In order for it all to be fair all teams HAVE to play the exact same teams.

I think the teams need to play all the teams to be fair.

I have seen a scenario where the top 2 teams in a bracket did not play each other and were both 2-0 with high scoring differential.

The team that ran up the score advanced to the 1st place playoff while the 2nd place team went to the 2nd place playoff. Both teams were 2-0 in bracket play.

[Unregistered]

I'm going to be honest, I'm a younger referee myself (under 20). I will tell you that I refereed MHC, and I will be honest and tell you I may have made some mistakes. But I think what parents and spectators tend to forget, is just like all humans, we all make mistakes. We as referees are paid to regulate the game, and keep it safe and fun. I recognize that it may be frustrating as a parent when you have a younger referee, but I will say that patience and respect is key. They are just trying to learn and improve as officials, just as your children are trying to improve their soccer. Let me tell you, it takes guts to stand out there and have people question your every decision. Yes, we get paid, but its a difficult job under (sometimes) pretty high pressure. I'm NOT saying that referees always get it right, or that we are higher above you just because we have a whistle. What I will say is that many referees that have the opportunity to be good or are good, have been abused, and so you lose many of the good referees due to abusive coaches or parents. One piece of advice I will give to any new (or even veteran) parent is to learn the rules of the game. Key things I often hear about that are wrong are:
-Just because a player falls does not mean they were fouled
-being in an offsides POSITION does not always mean you have committed the offsides foul
-the role of the ARs: they help make some of the calls, but that in the end a center can always overrule or side with an AR (it all depends who had a better view of the play)

Those are just a few. Look, I'm not going to say that every referee is perfect, and a referee should never insert themselves into the game unneccesarily. You deserve good officiating, but, I will tell you that with over 1000 games and 2000 positions, only 5 were completely missed or empty (official numbers given to us by our assignor). So please, the next time you see a yellow shirt, don't groan, we are just trying our best, and ever game we officiate we learn, and we get better.

I thank you for what you do, it is NOT easy. I have debated on whether to allow my child to ref given the atmosphere on many sidelines. The only time I groan, is when I see those few refs who seem to mail it in, lack the fitness for the game, or show a serious lack of effort.

[Unregistered]

I'm going to be honest, I'm a younger referee myself (under 20). I will tell you that I refereed MHC, and I will be honest and tell you I may have made some mistakes. But I think what parents and spectators tend to forget, is just like all humans, we all make mistakes. We as referees are paid to regulate the game, and keep it safe and fun. I recognize that it may be frustrating as a parent when you have a younger referee, but I will say that patience and respect is key. They are just trying to learn and improve as officials, just as your children are trying to improve their soccer. Let me tell you, it takes guts to stand out there and have people question your every decision. Yes, we get paid, but its a difficult job under (sometimes) pretty high pressure. I'm NOT saying that referees always get it right, or that we are higher above you just because we have a whistle. What I will say is that many referees that have the opportunity to be good or are good, have been abused, and so you lose many of the good referees due to abusive coaches or parents. One piece of advice I will give to any new (or even veteran) parent is to learn the rules of the game. Key things I often hear about that are wrong are:
-Just because a player falls does not mean they were fouled
-being in an offsides POSITION does not always mean you have committed the offsides foul
-the role of the ARs: they help make some of the calls, but that in the end a center can always overrule or side with an AR (it all depends who had a better view of the play)

Those are just a few. Look, I'm not going to say that every referee is perfect, and a referee should never insert themselves into the game unneccesarily. You deserve good officiating, but, I will tell you that with over 1000 games and 2000 positions, only 5 were completely missed or empty (official numbers given to us by our assignor). So please, the next time you see a yellow shirt, don't groan, we are just trying our best, and ever game we officiate we learn, and we get better.

My kids are both worked games this weekend and they came home with the same comments they do from every game they do. Parents scream about calls constantly and almost all the time they do not understand the rules.

Rules people need to understand before opening their mouth
1. offside rule...almost no parent understands this rule. It's not simple so read up on it.
2. hand ball, just because it hits someones arm/hand does not make it a foul
3. physical play is not necessarily a foul. At the older ages (high school) soccer is very physical.
4. a ref will let play continue if you have advantage when the other team fouls
5. the WHOLE ball must be over the line for it to be a goal or out of bounds. Most ref's don't understand this one either.
6. the rules are only guidelines and the center ref can do whatever they want..sounds weird but that's how it works

Things you should remember
1. ref's like to work a good game w/o crazies on the sideline
2. ref's know which teams are the worst to deal with and many just turn down those games
3. many ref's don't like to work the younger ages. Worst parents and the games are not very interesting.
4. If you spew a bunch of crap at the officials do you really think you will get the calls?

and I have never been a soccer official.

[Unregistered]

My kids are both worked games this weekend and they came home with the same comments they do from every game they do. Parents scream about calls constantly and almost all the time they do not understand the rules.

Rules people need to understand before opening their mouth
1. offside rule...almost no parent understands this rule. It's not simple so read up on it.
2. hand ball, just because it hits someones arm/hand does not make it a foul
3. physical play is not necessarily a foul. At the older ages (high school) soccer is very physical.
4. a ref will let play continue if you have advantage when the other team fouls
5. the WHOLE ball must be over the line for it to be a goal or out of bounds. Most ref's don't understand this one either.
6. the rules are only guidelines and the center ref can do whatever they want..sounds weird but that's how it works

While I agree many, many parents don't understand the rules correctly, sadly many, many refs don't know the rules either.

[Unregistered]

While I agree many, many parents don't understand the rules correctly, sadly many, many refs don't know the rules either.

They do. But, they're human. They can't see EVERYTHING. And the same pool of refs have opportunities to ref games in almost ALL tournaments in Oregon. There are assessors out there evaluating refs all the time, giving feedback and helping refs get better.

Good list of common "complaints" from the sidelines, and good point about some of the refs CHOOSE NOT to ref certain games because of the coaches and/or parents and/or players who just aren't worth the frustration.

There are plenty of ref classes if you want to get certified. No guarantees that you won't be yelled at either for some mistake you've made though.

[Unregistered]

They do. But, they're human. They can't see EVERYTHING. And the same pool of refs have opportunities to ref games in almost ALL tournaments in Oregon. There are assessors out there evaluating refs all the time, giving feedback and helping refs get better.

Good list of common "complaints" from the sidelines, and good point about some of the refs CHOOSE NOT to ref certain games because of the coaches and/or parents and/or players who just aren't worth the frustration.

There are plenty of ref classes if you want to get certified. No guarantees that you won't be yelled at either for some mistake you've made though.

There's a differernce between making a mistake and not knowing the rules. At our last game we had an AR that had no idea what the offside rule was. She was calling it anytime a player was behind the defense. Didn't matter if the player made their run after the pass was made, if they were involved in the play or not, or if it was on a throw in. The center ref was calling a hand ball anytime the ball touched the hand.

I don't expect the refs to be perfect and I have no problem with mistakes being made. I do have a problem with refs that don't understand the rules and don't take the time to learn them. Unfortunately there are far more refs that need a extra courses. I feel bad for the few good refs we have out there as the rest are making their job much harder.

[Unregistered]

There's a differernce between making a mistake and not knowing the rules. At our last game we had an AR that had no idea what the offside rule was. She was calling it anytime a player was behind the defense. Didn't matter if the player made their run after the pass was made, if they were involved in the play or not, or if it was on a throw in. The center ref was calling a hand ball anytime the ball touched the hand.

I don't expect the refs to be perfect and I have no problem with mistakes being made. I do have a problem with refs that don't understand the rules and don't take the time to learn them. Unfortunately there are far more refs that need a extra courses. I feel bad for the few good refs we have out there as the rest are making their job much harder.

Do you realize that offsides is called anytime the player in an in offsides position is interpreted as being "in play" and therefore gives the attacking squad an advantage from being in that position?

At many of the younger ages (U11-14), a player in an offsides position draws defenders away from the point of attack - and therefore even if the ball is not played the player in an offsides position creates an advantage - therefore the offsides foul is called. The advantage of a player in an offsides position is not limited to "cherry picking". Offsides and handball are the most vaguely interpreted and therefore most confusing fouls in the sport...