When Does Recruiting Get Ugly?

[TurfEater]

let the kids play where they want to play.

Who's not letting a kid play where they want to play (assuming they made the team - LOL)? Let me know so we can correct this horrible injustice. FACT: A kid being recruited IS NOT REQUIRED to change teams.

[Unregistered]

i wish people would stop trying to justify recruiting. this is not college football and no youth soccer player is named lebron james. please stop trying to justify that recruiting is ok in YOUTH SOCCER. let the kids play where they want to play. these ego hungry coaches should not be recruiting - end of discussion.

No, it's not the end of the discussion. Why not recruit? If a player is good enough to catch a coaches eye, why not go talk to the kid. Makes the kid feel good that he/she is getting noticed. And if the team is better (whatever your definition) than the one they are playing for, why not switch?

All you people with the "this isn't college football" or the 'back room' conspiracy theorists crack me up. It's called wanting to put the best team on the field. Through development and through talented players. What's so wrong with that?

[Soca lova]

No, it's not the end of the discussion. Why not recruit? If a player is good enough to catch a coaches eye, why not go talk to the kid. Makes the kid feel good that he/she is getting noticed. And if the team is better (whatever your definition) than the one they are playing for, why not switch?

All you people with the "this isn't college football" or the 'back room' conspiracy theorists crack me up. It's called wanting to put the best team on the field. Through development and through talented players. What's so wrong with that?

I think one of the big objections comes from clubs that do not develop players from the beginning. Some clubs are full service cradle to grave, providing services from early youth, developing them, and going through competitive. Sometimes stand out kids will be recruited by the competitive only clubs, however when a club's whole framework is to ignore early development, and instead focus on pulling all your kids from other clubs, I think this strikes many as parasitic. Many have pointed out it really depends which side of the recruiting you are on. This is clearly true, but if we consider Oregon Soccer to be one organism, hopefully we don't have parts feeding off of each other.

[Unregistered]

I think one of the big objections comes from clubs that do not develop players from the beginning. Some clubs are full service cradle to grave, providing services from early youth, developing them, and going through competitive. Sometimes stand out kids will be recruited by the competitive only clubs, however when a club's whole framework is to ignore early development, and instead focus on pulling all your kids from other clubs, I think this strikes many as parasitic. Many have pointed out it really depends which side of the recruiting you are on. This is clearly true, but if we consider Oregon Soccer to be one organism, hopefully we don't have parts feeding off of each other.

First off this post kind of gives me the creeps talking about organisms feeding and such. Second, what's your point? Are you trying to pit the clubs against each other by labeling some development and some competitive only? Which clubs are you referring to that don't develop? I may be wrong but isn't that the point of the entire club?

[TurfEater]

First off this post kind of gives me the creeps talking about organisms feeding and such. Second, what's your point? Are you trying to pit the clubs against each other by labeling some development and some competitive only? Which clubs are you referring to that don't develop? I may be wrong but isn't that the point of the entire club?

From what I've seen, "development" is often an explanation for not winning. In other words, our team doesn't win but it doesn't matter because we focus on development. Maybe there's something to it but it smells of sour grapes to me.

Why would a player move from a "full-service" club that offers development and competition (winning?) to one that just offers competition? I assume when a player changes clubs there's actually a motivation to do so.

[Unregistered]

I think one of the big objections comes from clubs that do not develop players from the beginning. Some clubs are full service cradle to grave, providing services from early youth, developing them, and going through competitive. Sometimes stand out kids will be recruited by the competitive only clubs, however when a club's whole framework is to ignore early development, and instead focus on pulling all your kids from other clubs, I think this strikes many as parasitic. Many have pointed out it really depends which side of the recruiting you are on. This is clearly true, but if we consider Oregon Soccer to be one organism, hopefully we don't have parts feeding off of each other.

How would a club possibly recruit players if they don't develop players as well? They wouldn't have any winning teams to begin with and thus wouldn't be able to recruit. If you're not winning to begin with no one is going to want to go to your club.

Since this post is mainly about thusc I'll use some examples. Sodium won State at U11, U12, and U14 so it seems as if they were developed very nicely and that is why there are so many kids that want to play for that team. In fact several of the Platinum (B team) players developed so much in one year that they made Sodium the next year. Neon didn't win state until I believe U13 but were contenders at U11 and U12, all being developed from the club. U14 Mercury won State this year and have been a top 4 gold team since U11 and developed into a State Cup team with many of the original players. U12 Onyx is filled with kids that have been through the U10 program since they were 7-8 years old and has been very successful. At the high school level you typically see a lot of movement so it is hard to judge how many of those players are "developed" from one club.

I admit Thusc is suffering on the boys side but they are making the correct changes to change all that. It won't be overnight but I like the direction it's heading.

I don't know of ANY club that is all about competing and not developing. You can have a team stacked with talent but if you don't have a good coach or program they won't be champions for long.

[ESUFC Fan]

I am reading all these postings and I can't believe that some parents are that oblivious to what is going on. Really?????? You don't notice that new players show up and that they happen to be ODP and from other clubs? I am laughing. I can't imagine how that works since I tend to notice new faces at practices and games. We just have not had that much turn over in the past. It would be so obvious!!!

I have no problem with THUSC parents being very proud of their state championship reign. They should be. On the other hand, with the level of recruiting that goes on at THUSC if your player is not a standout I would fear them not being retained or not receiving playing time with all the recent acquisitions.

At what point does a team have enough players? Also, at what point do players that were developed within a club begin receiving the boot?
I think some of the whiners (myself included because my team is being systematically dismantled by THUSC ) feel that when you have a roster that is already stacked and you have more players than any team around then why must your raid as many stand out players as you can?

Is the development stage over at this age and it is time to acquire any talent any way you can??

It would be nice to win the state cup all the time like Sodium but at the same time my child is only 14. She loves playing with her team where most of the girls are her friends and over the years this group of young ladies have united and come together to form a good team.

I have heard the argument that youth have to be challenged in order to develop. I would argue that youth need to play in actual games in order to grow developmentally. Sometimes it is quite challenging to play without 7 or 8 other ODP players on the field with you. Also, players can get the next level challenge participating in ODP at the state and regional level. So it isn't as though players at other clubs are not developing. In fact, that is why THUSC wants them.

I am not bashing THUSC. I could care less what any of the other teams do. Unfortuneately the player grab has almost crippled our team and it sucks. So, what I hear you saying is get over it. And just so you will know .... I will.

[ESUFC Fan]

First, maybe the coach is right. Second, if you and your daughter don't like it, tell him to get lost. In my mind, that's a valuable lesson to learn - that you can't always control what's going on around you, but you can definitely control your own actions - an invaluable "teaching moment" presented by some recruiting.

My daughter participates in ODP too and we are not likely to tell an ODP coach to get lost any time soon. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I were the original poster I totally would not take this advice.

[Soca lova]

To who's benefit?

I have heard the argument that youth have to be challenged in order to develop. I would argue that youth need to play in actual games in order to grow developmentally.

So to whose benefit are the heavy recruiters working? At some point (14 or 15) you begin stockpiling players. While these players might start at other clubs, in this situation some end up on the bench.

Who do you compete against? Isn't it better to have the top talent spread out over several teams all of whom are roughly even, thus bringing up the total level of play?

It is easier to look good on a team of all stars. A developmentally important stage for a high level player is becoming a leader on the field, motivating others, getting the best from them. This is better accomplished in a less engineered setting.

Finally, yes parents and players
do have the final choice, but c'mon open your eyes, these coaches know how to recruit and sell themselves.

Hopefully everyone's aim is to create competition for competitive teams, not to just have one super team at each level.

[Unregistered]

Well put ESUFC Fan...

I know that adding additional players can be a benefit to a team. Sodium takes on new players that are able to knock off some of their lesser talent and that is fine. We all know that it is going to happen and there will be further diminishing of teams in U-15 and even lesser at the older levels.

What most of these threads deal with is a couple items within THUSC, Sodium and Ireland in particular.

1) A Parent that is egotistical and pushes his personal propoganda of the team/club to an absurd level (think Spinal Tap level 11). By name calling of other teams in post which he tells people not to read and boisterous attitude on the sideline. This could be seen as overly loud when they score or win and storming to his car pouting when they lose.

2) A DOC that is an opportunist. He will utilize his position to recruit for his club. He has a say in how the fields are handled at State Cup site THPRD (read bolggers comments on grooming technique during this years State). Not the most ethical but none the less nothing anybody can do about it. ***If your not cheating or bending the rules, your not trying.

3) A team jumping from one club to another to follow a coach. Would be illegal in another state (WA) for it cripples the other club (see Southside now - not all done by Ireland but that did not help). I always knew that most clubs switch coaches after two years this would probably be a reason as it can become unhealthy in growth of the player

So what do we get from all this I think it is the reason why you either love em' or hate em'. Support or bash. If you are a part of it you will not have a problem with it. If you are on the outs probably not a fan of them. Either way they are not going to change or go anywhere soon but will eventually cause a scandal that could cripple them. So in the mean time people will bash on the internet and complain. All the while the girls playing soccer will just play and become what they are young ladies who probably just want to play and not hear any of what has been said on this board. (I think mostly adults are on here as the kids just don't care enough about this political crap).

[SodiumFan[2]]

I am reading all these postings and I can't believe that some parents are that oblivious to what is going on. Really?????? You don't notice that new players show up and that they happen to be ODP and from other clubs? I am laughing. I can't imagine how that works since I tend to notice new faces at practices and games. We just have not had that much turn over in the past. It would be so obvious!!!

I have no problem with THUSC parents being very proud of their state championship reign. They should be. On the other hand, with the level of recruiting that goes on at THUSC if your player is not a standout I would fear them not being retained or not receiving playing time with all the recent acquisitions.

At what point does a team have enough players? Also, at what point do players that were developed within a club begin receiving the boot?
I think some of the whiners (myself included because my team is being systematically dismantled by THUSC ) feel that when you have a roster that is already stacked and you have more players than any team around then why must your raid as many stand out players as you can?

Is the development stage over at this age and it is time to acquire any talent any way you can??

It would be nice to win the state cup all the time like Sodium but at the same time my child is only 14. She loves playing with her team where most of the girls are her friends and over the years this group of young ladies have united and come together to form a good team.

I have heard the argument that youth have to be challenged in order to develop. I would argue that youth need to play in actual games in order to grow developmentally. Sometimes it is quite challenging to play without 7 or 8 other ODP players on the field with you. Also, players can get the next level challenge participating in ODP at the state and regional level. So it isn't as though players at other clubs are not developing. In fact, that is why THUSC wants them.

I am not bashing THUSC. I could care less what any of the other teams do. Unfortuneately the player grab has almost crippled our team and it sucks. So, what I hear you saying is get over it. And just so you will know .... I will.

Hey, ESUFC Fan, long time. Hope your summer is well.
We are on the same page about the recruitment deal. How can parents not notice? Anyway, to address the other topics. We carry 18 on the roster because of a few reasons. Like most teams there is always injuries, vacations etc. Plus, if there is ODP events, like Cascade Cup weekend when 5 starters gone, we need to be able to field a team without having to invite many guest players. That weekend we invited 3. I believe their are 2 positions where there are no set backups. Every position needs to be earned. This will especially hold true after the August tryouts. Coach made it clear that from U14 season on you had to earn your spot. And if you didn't, there was a player waiting to take your position. So, that caused our girls to work hard at practice and put forth their best effort during the games.
The comment about being systematically dismantled by us is not true. To my knowledge only one invitation to join the squad has been offered and it was to a Southside player. Players who have contacted us and want to guest play are, with the coaches approval, allowed to join us for a few games and practices. If players whom the coach has talked to decide they want to guest play, then that is their and their parents options. As many posters have said, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to. Sorry if you feel that way.
The core group of girls have been with us since U11. Like most teams there is some turn over almost every year. Going into U13 we lost 5 or 6 players. Some moved, some quit soccer, some decided to play other sports, one went to another team. This year we have had a player join another squad. She and her mom decided that with the demands of high school, the high school team and ODP, that our rigorous schedule would not work out for them. We were sad to see her go and wished her the best. There were no hard feelings, nor should there have been.
In my opinion the development stage should never be viewed as "over". A player can, and should, always be growing and fine tuning their skills.
My dad always told me that if I'm going to do something, I might as try to be the best at it. I think that our team has that same philosophy. Why not try to be the best? Both individually and as a team? If you don't love the game, yourself and your team enough to try to be the best, why be out there?

Sorry to ramble.

Have a great summer all and we'll see you on the pitch. :)

[TurfEater]

My daughter participates in ODP too and we are not likely to tell an ODP coach to get lost any time soon. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I were the original poster I totally would not take this advice.

I wouldn't either. But a lot of the anti-recruitment talk has been about taking a "principled stand". If that's what's driving you then it better start from numero uno - you better be willing to take the consequences if this is really about your principles.

Also you made a comment about THUSC "raiding" other teams. From what I've seen as an outsider looking in, it's not as if the new players had to have their arms twisted to jump ship.

[Unregistered]

I am not bashing THUSC. I could care less what any of the other teams do. Unfortuneately the player grab has almost crippled our team and it sucks. So, what I hear you saying is get over it. And just so you will know .... I will.

If your club was providing what all your players want then they would have no reason to leave. There is obviously something that they don't like there or else they'd stay. You can't blame another club for that.

[Unregistered]

I don't see how you can blame Thusc for Ireland leaving SSC. SSC offers no college placement and everyone knows their finances are not in tact. If Ireland as a whole chose to leave the club because their coach did then that is Southsides fault for not offering better coaches.

[Unregistered]

Well put ESUFC Fan...

I know that adding additional players can be a benefit to a team. Sodium takes on new players that are able to knock off some of their lesser talent and that is fine. We all know that it is going to happen and there will be further diminishing of teams in U-15 and even lesser at the older levels.

What most of these threads deal with is a couple items within THUSC, Sodium and Ireland in particular.

1) A Parent that is egotistical and pushes his personal propoganda of the team/club to an absurd level (think Spinal Tap level 11). By name calling of other teams in post which he tells people not to read and boisterous attitude on the sideline. This could be seen as overly loud when they score or win and storming to his car pouting when they lose.

2) A DOC that is an opportunist. He will utilize his position to recruit for his club. He has a say in how the fields are handled at State Cup site THPRD (read bolggers comments on grooming technique during this years State). Not the most ethical but none the less nothing anybody can do about it. ***If your not cheating or bending the rules, your not trying.

3) A team jumping from one club to another to follow a coach. Would be illegal in another state (WA) for it cripples the other club (see Southside now - not all done by Ireland but that did not help). I always knew that most clubs switch coaches after two years this would probably be a reason as it can become unhealthy in growth of the player

So what do we get from all this I think it is the reason why you either love em' or hate em'. Support or bash. If you are a part of it you will not have a problem with it. If you are on the outs probably not a fan of them. Either way they are not going to change or go anywhere soon but will eventually cause a scandal that could cripple them. So in the mean time people will bash on the internet and complain. All the while the girls playing soccer will just play and become what they are young ladies who probably just want to play and not hear any of what has been said on this board. (I think mostly adults are on here as the kids just don't care enough about this political crap).

I find this post most hilarious because it reminds of a little kid hiding behind a car throwing rocks at the big bully. Or a crowd of people where someone ducks down and yells obscenities and them pops their head up to make sure no one knew it was them.

Basically what I am saying is that people can sit here and point fingers and call names and throw out unsubstantiated BS all they want. THUSC is a dominant club on the girls side. The boys are rebuilding. If someone yells when his team scores or wins, great! Ever been to a hockey or football game? Probably not because then someone might see you. And why do you care WHAT this guy does when his team wins or loses. My God, get your own life.
And please point out to me a DOC who ISN'T an opportunist. News flash, we don't live in Washington! If a team wants to follow their coach, what difference does it make to you? It shouldn't make any unless your the type of person who just likes to try get people upset.

I go so pissed at people who just can't get over that THUSC is a good club. Just because they don't always act the way YOU want them to. Or a parent or DOC doesn't do the things YOU want think they should, you get on here and patronize them. Grow up.