Girls Soccer and Concussions

[Unregistered]

Good spot on Rock Center with Brian Williams. girls more likely to have knee injuries and concussions than boys.

[Unregistered]

Watching it right now....thought-provoking, but it also seems to be very one-sided. I hope they have a 2nd doctor's opinion somewhere along the line. Millions of girls play competitive soccer. Not all of them get concussions from heading the ball, right?

But the doctor explaining that girl's necks are not as strong as boys definitely concerns me.

[Unregistered]

Watching it right now....thought-provoking, but it also seems to be very one-sided. I hope they have a 2nd doctor's opinion somewhere along the line. Millions of girls play competitive soccer. Not all of them get concussions from heading the ball, right?

But the doctor explaining that girl's necks are not as strong as boys definitely concerns me.

coached soccer for many years and did not allow my kids to head the ball. Heading is so easily learned it can be taught later and players need not learn it early. Youth soccer needs to merely rule it out of the game as in hand balls. Allow it at some later age U16 or above would be a good start IMO. If neither team can do it no one will miss it.

[Unregistered]

coached soccer for many years and did not allow my kids to head the ball. Heading is so easily learned it can be taught later and players need not learn it early. Youth soccer needs to merely rule it out of the game as in hand balls. Allow it at some later age U16 or above would be a good start IMO. If neither team can do it no one will miss it.

Tempted to instruct my 12 year old player not to head the ball... Don't want to overreact but have to admit.... I'm concerned.

[Unregistered]

http://www.brainline.org/content/multimedia.php?id=5161

Very interesting....no reason to believe that heading the ball IF DONE PROPERLY causes concussion.....the knee and neck issue are the reason some clubs have added more advanced strength training to their program

[Unregistered]

http://www.brainline.org/content/multimedia.php?id=5161

Very interesting....no reason to believe that heading the ball IF DONE PROPERLY causes concussion.....the knee and neck issue are the reason some clubs have added more advanced strength training to their program

You do realize your talking about young teens, you know the ones who don't always make the best decisions in their teen years. You're using the if done properly excuse? So a teen should be expected to know 'if done properly' will not cause them further complications in life.

There is no need to head a ball and if banned it would not change the youth game at all. Teens cannot be expected to make split second rational decisions during the heat of the game. they do not want to let their teammates down. Many teens get injured during games for the very reason of going all out not to disappoint their teammates/friends.

[Unregistered]

You do realize your talking about young teens, you know the ones who don't always make the best decisions in their teen years. You're using the if done properly excuse? So a teen should be expected to know 'if done properly' will not cause them further complications in life.

There is no need to head a ball and if banned it would not change the youth game at all. Teens cannot be expected to make split second rational decisions during the heat of the game. they do not want to let their teammates down. Many teens get injured during games for the very reason of going all out not to disappoint their teammates/friends.

Watching that piece last night puts everything in perspective. let these kids have fun and I agree with no heading at younger age groups. Some girls head the ball right from the punt of a goalie and it is extremely dangerous. I saw one girl become real dizzy on another team after she did it at one of our games. Some of those girls thought about ending their life last night. Enough said and not worth it. Some of those girls last night on TV were going in extremely hard and violent. No need for that and coaches and parents have a repsonsibility to have the girls play tough but not to go in so hard as to injure. Some of the tackles they showed last night in the girls games were pretty violent.

[Unregistered]

I agree with your overall point; however, without RIPCOA weighing in to ban it at the Middle School level, then you have the requirement for kids as young as U12 to know the proper technique - because do you really want the first exposure to heading to come their Middle School coach?

What really wasn't made totally clear in the story was whether the injuries (which did seem highly disproportionate, especially the severity) came from (1) heading the ball uncontested; (2) heading the ball contested; (3) taking a shot to the head from a struck ball at close range- which is the only concussion I have seen that was not the result of a collision; or (4) collision between players not necessarily related to trying to head the ball.

I know the story did indicated one girl got struck in the head after a hard play -- but it also seemed the more dangerous aspect was heading after an initial concussion - not the actual heading in an otherwise healthy player.

Finally, my observations are the concussions I have seen almost all occurred in school games, not club games -- school games have less skilled players who compensate by using more physical play (or are coached to play that way) and the officiating with 2 man system doesn't/can't catch as much.

I think banning it from U10 and below except in training makes sense, but I fear the impact on those kids when they start school leagues.

[Unregistered]

Mr uneducated

I agree with your overall point; however, without RIPCOA weighing in to ban it at the Middle School level, then you have the requirement for kids as young as U12 to know the proper technique - because do you really want the first exposure to heading to come their Middle School coach?

What really wasn't made totally clear in the story was whether the injuries (which did seem highly disproportionate, especially the severity) came from (1) heading the ball uncontested; (2) heading the ball contested; (3) taking a shot to the head from a struck ball at close range- which is the only concussion I have seen that was not the result of a collision; or (4) collision between players not necessarily related to trying to head the ball.

I know the story did indicated one girl got struck in the head after a hard play -- but it also seemed the more dangerous aspect was heading after an initial concussion - not the actual heading in an otherwise healthy player.

Finally, my observations are the concussions I have seen almost all occurred in school games, not club games -- school games have less skilled players who compensate by using more physical play (or are coached to play that way) and the officiating with 2 man system doesn't/can't catch as much.

I think banning it from U10 and below except in training makes sense, but I fear the impact on those kids when they start school leagues.

Don't even know where to start, but I will give it a shot
1. Your suggestion is ban heading at U10 and before age groups. Have you ever watched a U9 or U10 game. Very rare to see a girl head a ball, let alone head a ball from a goalie punt. If they do head a ball it has usually already bounced on the ground and even then, most girls will head with the top of their head.
2. At that age group, there is no slide tackling. Girls at that age are not even tought to tackle.
3. All the girls profiled in the Williams special played club soccer in and around downingtown, pa. To say that they all the ones you have "seen" tells me you don't watch much soccer.
4. The lack of leg strengh at the years age U10 and prior also has a significant impact as the ball is not hit with as much force at the U13 and above levels which is usually 8th grade to high school level when the majority of the girl players have begun to mature and put on mass/muscle.
5. Prior to U10, no coach should be training girls how to head a ball. They should be focused on foot skills and touches. My daughter plays premier soccer and I watched a good majority of her practices or spoke to her about them after on the ride home and she never told me that they worked on heading the ball....ps...no need to instruct the girls even at U12.

I'll start with that

[Unregistered]

Don't even know where to start, but I will give it a shot
1. Your suggestion is ban heading at U10 and before age groups. Have you ever watched a U9 or U10 game. Very rare to see a girl head a ball, let alone head a ball from a goalie punt. If they do head a ball it has usually already bounced on the ground and even then, most girls will head with the top of their head.
2. At that age group, there is no slide tackling. Girls at that age are not even tought to tackle.
3. All the girls profiled in the Williams special played club soccer in and around downingtown, pa. To say that they all the ones you have "seen" tells me you don't watch much soccer.
4. The lack of leg strengh at the years age U10 and prior also has a significant impact as the ball is not hit with as much force at the U13 and above levels which is usually 8th grade to high school level when the majority of the girl players have begun to mature and put on mass/muscle.
5. Prior to U10, no coach should be training girls how to head a ball. They should be focused on foot skills and touches. My daughter plays premier soccer and I watched a good majority of her practices or spoke to her about them after on the ride home and she never told me that they worked on heading the ball....ps...no need to instruct the girls even at U12.

I'll start with that

Great observations and post. Technique is the major reason why more girls are prunged to head injuries/concussions. I can speak to that because my daughter had a concussion. I asked her how did it happened. She said she headed to ball on top side of my head. I said, princess never head the ball on top side of your head. If you do it one more time you will not be playing soccer anymore. Then I explain to her the proper way is to head the ball with your forehead where you can support the impact.

I agreed U10 should never be taught to use their heads. However at U12 they should start practicing with heading the ball. What I see is girls start to practicing heading ball so late (after U12) that most of them are not comfortable heading the ball. When you are not comfort that is when mistake happened and injuries occurred. So I would say practice good techniques yes, but don't focus too much during games.

[Unregistered]

Don't even know where to start, but I will give it a shot

Thanks. Since I don't know anything about you, I won't make any assumptions about what your answers tell me. I go by the US National Soccer curriculum because I think those people have more experience with the game and put more time and thought into these things than I do.


1. Your suggestion is ban heading at U10 and before age groups. Have you ever watched a U9 or U10 game. Very rare to see a girl head a ball, let alone head a ball from a goalie punt. If they do head a ball it has usually already bounced on the ground and even then, most girls will head with the top of their head.

2. At that age group, there is no slide tackling. Girls at that age are not even tought to tackle.

I can make the same argument you use in # 1 - How many girls ever slide tackle at U10 and below, even when it wasn't banned? Leagues vary about calling offside at U10 but in the ones that don't, should coaches still introduce the concept? Philosophical point - do you teach and train on skills and concepts the players can't use or are not held to in matches? Conversely, if it's allowed and an accepted part of the game, do you have an obligation to teach it if it is going to be expected of them (even if you don't encourage it)? How many players don't head the ball because (1) it is a scarier technique than most and (2) they are not taught it so why would you expect a player to do it?


3. All the girls profiled in the Williams special played club soccer in and around downingtown, pa. To say that they all the ones you have "seen" tells me you don't watch much soccer.

Not sure your point - My point was the sample used in the story seem very UNrepresentative. Maybe they just play more physical in PA or don't teach proper technique as well. I have not seen such a concentrated group of severe side effects from playing soccer related to brain injuries. If the story's point was the bad effects come from playing after the initial concussion, then it's good that RIIL/RIPCOA/SRI, etc. are stepping up awareness and measures on concussion. But the story hinted that just playing soccer and heading the ball was causing these issues seemed a bit of a stretch.


4. The lack of leg strengh at the years age U10 and prior also has a significant impact as the ball is not hit with as much force at the U13 and above levels which is usually 8th grade to high school level when the majority of the girl players have begun to mature and put on mass/muscle.

Again, you are probably right, but force is mass times acceleration..the one U10 player I saw get a concussion from a struck ball was hit in the head at very close range..didn't matter the ball was not going to reach a velocity as high as if a u13 player had struck it.

At the older ages, I have never seen a concussion from a struck ball being intentionally headed uncontested..they have come from collision with another player, collision with the goal posts, or unintentional strikes to the head. Again, my point from the story was it was not made clear (except in one case) what caused the concussion. But I will also acknowledge that my (and a lot of others) awareness on concussions 10-20 years ago were less so


5. Prior to U10, no coach should be training girls how to head a ball. They should be focused on foot skills and touches. My daughter plays premier soccer and I watched a good majority of her practices or spoke to her about them after on the ride home and she never told me that they worked on heading the ball....ps...no need to instruct the girls even at U12.

Maybe you are smarter than the folks who developed the US National Soccer curriculum..look at the U11 and U12 technical training plans heading becomes mid to high level of importance in training..then again, I guess you have seen more soccer than they have. Perhaps your daughter's coach should submit his or her curriculum to US Soccer.

Bottom line - How many middle school games have you watched? At least in the RI schools, coaches in the matches I have seen expect the kids to head the ball if appropriate. Granted, a fair amount will shy away or close their eyes so they miss the ball or head incorrectly, but it's part of the game.

What do you expect of the U12 girl playing school soccer who has never been taught the skill? Are you going to leave that up to the MS coach to teach? If you are not taught correct technique in training, how can you expect a player to do correctly and safely - note Brandi Chastain's brief segment and demonstration on the show - when they get to that level.

[Unregistered]

middle school games

1. Never watched a middle school game other then the ones I played in. Middle school soccer is non existent in the states my daugther and I have lived and played in. In NY, most top premier U13 girls (generally speaking 8th graders) play in high school at the JV level. In CT, they too don't have middle school teams, strictly high school, but you must be taking high school courses to play high school unlike NY. Even if my daughter's middle school offered soccer, she would not play there but would continue her premier soccer.

2. I said no coach U10 or below should teach heading. Here is the US soccer age group organization link were they weight basic skills and lay out lesson plans for age groups. http://resources.ussoccer.com/n7v8b8...Curriculum.pdf you can read for yourself, but it says very low to low, 1 to 2 on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being the highest for U10 and below . I will suggest that no U11, U12 or U13 coach will waste time teaching heading drills either. That is based on personal experience. I never heard my daughters U11, U12 or U13 coaches, premier club and ODP, ever tell a girl to head a ball in a practice or game. Some kids will do it on their own. My daughter scored her first header goal at U9, but again, that was on a ball that was bouncing in the box, not a volley. That goal was instinct, not something that was taught.

3. My point on the downingtown girls is they were not injured playing middle school soccer, they play premier soccer, so your point about girls getting concussions more in middle school didn't hold water in that case. We have been to downingtown many times to play at the FC Delco and Spirit United tournaments. They do not play any more physical then teams we play in NY, NJ and CT, so it has nothing to do with how they are instructed in PA. They have a very good ODP program as well as top notch clubs such as FC Delco. I have spoken to FC Delco coaches when they came to scout my daughter and I found them to be knowledgeable coaches who stress fundemental skills in the early years.

4. As for my daughter's coaches, I have choosen them wisely. They have forgotten more about soccer then I will ever know, so I trust their development plan for my daughter. Her former coach played D1 college in the US, her current coach grew up in England's academy system and played in England professionally, her current ODP coach played in England on their U21 national team and her personal coach played on his countries national team and in the US professionally. They all have an advanced US coaching lic. I find it odd that you state that heading should be part of her development plan, yet none of these coaches have instructed it.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;757339Don't even know where to start, but I will give it a shot

Thanks. Since I don't know anything about you, I won't make any assumptions about what your answers tell me. I go by the US National Soccer curriculum because I think those people have more experience with the game and put more time and thought into these things than I do.


1. Your suggestion is ban heading at U10 and before age groups. Have you ever watched a U9 or U10 game. Very rare to see a girl head a ball, let alone head a ball from a goalie punt. If they do head a ball it has usually already bounced on the ground and even then, most girls will head with the top of their head.

2. At that age group, there is no slide tackling. Girls at that age are not even tought to tackle.

I can make the same argument you use in # 1 - How many girls ever slide tackle at U10 and below, even when it wasn't banned? Leagues vary about calling offside at U10 but in the ones that don't, should coaches still introduce the concept? Philosophical point - do you teach and train on skills and concepts the players can't use or are not held to in matches? Conversely, if it's allowed and an accepted part of the game, do you have an obligation to teach it if it is going to be expected of them (even if you don't encourage it)? How many players don't head the ball because (1) it is a scarier technique than most and (2) they are not taught it so why would you expect a player to do it?


3. All the girls profiled in the Williams special played club soccer in and around downingtown, pa. To say that they all the ones you have "seen" tells me you don't watch much soccer.

Not sure your point - My point was the sample used in the story seem very UNrepresentative. Maybe they just play more physical in PA or don't teach proper technique as well. I have not seen such a concentrated group of severe side effects from playing soccer related to brain injuries. If the story's point was the bad effects come from playing after the initial concussion, then it's good that RIIL/RIPCOA/SRI, etc. are stepping up awareness and measures on concussion. But the story hinted that just playing soccer and heading the ball was causing these issues seemed a bit of a stretch.


4. The lack of leg strengh at the years age U10 and prior also has a significant impact as the ball is not hit with as much force at the U13 and above levels which is usually 8th grade to high school level when the majority of the girl players have begun to mature and put on mass/muscle.

Again, you are probably right, but force is mass times acceleration..the one U10 player I saw get a concussion from a struck ball was hit in the head at very close range..didn't matter the ball was not going to reach a velocity as high as if a u13 player had struck it.

At the older ages, I have never seen a concussion from a struck ball being intentionally headed uncontested..they have come from collision with another player, collision with the goal posts, or unintentional strikes to the head. Again, my point from the story was it was not made clear (except in one case) what caused the concussion. But I will also acknowledge that my (and a lot of others) awareness on concussions 10-20 years ago were less so


5. Prior to U10, no coach should be training girls how to head a ball. They should be focused on foot skills and touches. My daughter plays premier soccer and I watched a good majority of her practices or spoke to her about them after on the ride home and she never told me that they worked on heading the ball....ps...no need to instruct the girls even at U12.

Maybe you are smarter than the folks who developed the US National Soccer curriculum..look at the U11 and U12 technical training plans heading becomes mid to high level of importance in training..then again, I guess you have seen more soccer than they have. Perhaps your daughter's coach should submit his or her curriculum to US Soccer.

Bottom line - How many middle school games have you watched? At least in the RI schools, coaches in the matches I have seen expect the kids to head the ball if appropriate. Granted, a fair amount will shy away or close their eyes so they miss the ball or head incorrectly, but it's part of the game.

What do you expect of the U12 girl playing school soccer who has never been taught the skill? Are you going to leave that up to the MS coach to teach? If you are not taught correct technique in training, how can you expect a player to do correctly and safely - note Brandi Chastain's brief segment and demonstration on the show - when they get to that level.[/QUOTE]

[Unregistered]

Yes..you are right that at U8-U10, heading is rated a 1 or 2.

BUT at U11-12, it becomes a 3 and 4 (out of 5). (pages 50-51 of the age group organization plan in the US Soccer curriculum).

I can see your perspective based on your daughter's experience -- but this is a *Rhode Island* board..and there are a significant amount of RI schools that offer Middle School soccer..maybe that is less the case in other states where club soccer is more dominant than school soccer. Seems like you are in such an area - although this was from a regional CT board

"The area public elementary/middle schools generally begin their school soccer teams with sixth graders, although the teams are usually populated mainly with seventh and eighth graders. These teams play mostly each other (each of the townships in our area has its own elementary/middle school through grade eight) but some also play area private middle schools.

Most of the public schools coaches assume that youngsters entering sixth grade will come to them either with rec soccer (with their town team) or travel soccer experience"

Again, I don't have the numbers, but my impression given the limited number of premier clubs in RI is most of the eligible kids want and do play for their schools, even the premier kids. A player I know who is in the REVs DA system still plays for his MS program, even though his parents will probably have him skip HS school (also because the DA is banning that anyway).

Finally, I didn't say the PA girls got injured in MS soccer..in fact I made it clear one of the weaknesses in the reporting was the lack of clarity in exactly how and what circumstances those girls were injured. My main point is many U12-U13 girls in RI will have the opportunity to play MS soccer..and until the state athletic organization bans heading, it is reasonable to teach proper technique before that point. School soccer, especially at MS, is about school spirit and playing with your friends -- less on development.

[Unregistered]

CT middle school

You are probably correct with the middle school soccer up in the northwest part of the state of CT, but that is not a hot bed for soccer and because they lack premier options in the vicinity, they probably do play soccer in middle school. I can tell you that I don't know one girl in CT that plays middle school soccer or any specific schools that even have programs. Perhaps thats why they are better then when I was a kid. I had the health teacher as a middle school soccer coach, my daughter has professional ex players as her club coaches,but then again, my parents didn't pay anything additional for my middle school soccer and I pay for club and odp training for my daughter.

Yes..you are right that at U8-U10, heading is rated a 1 or 2.

BUT at U11-12, it becomes a 3 and 4 (out of 5). (pages 50-51 of the age group organization plan in the US Soccer curriculum).

I can see your perspective based on your daughter's experience -- but this is a *Rhode Island* board..and there are a significant amount of RI schools that offer Middle School soccer..maybe that is less the case in other states where club soccer is more dominant than school soccer. Seems like you are in such an area - although this was from a regional CT board

"The area public elementary/middle schools generally begin their school soccer teams with sixth graders, although the teams are usually populated mainly with seventh and eighth graders. These teams play mostly each other (each of the townships in our area has its own elementary/middle school through grade eight) but some also play area private middle schools.

Most of the public schools coaches assume that youngsters entering sixth grade will come to them either with rec soccer (with their town team) or travel soccer experience"

Again, I don't have the numbers, but my impression given the limited number of premier clubs in RI is most of the eligible kids want and do play for their schools, even the premier kids. A player I know who is in the REVs DA system still plays for his MS program, even though his parents will probably have him skip HS school (also because the DA is banning that anyway).

Finally, I didn't say the PA girls got injured in MS soccer..in fact I made it clear one of the weaknesses in the reporting was the lack of clarity in exactly how and what circumstances those girls were injured. My main point is many U12-U13 girls in RI will have the opportunity to play MS soccer..and until the state athletic organization bans heading, it is reasonable to teach proper technique before that point. School soccer, especially at MS, is about school spirit and playing with your friends -- less on development.