Monitoring The MPS Impact

Outstanding post!

[Fred Marks]

Fred Marks ^^^ Grrrrrrrrr

Let me start by saying that I have no dog in this hunt but this is a question for Keeper, or any other person knowledgeable and supportive of the MPS program. Why does MPS have their teams play in the state cup? I understand that some will take this to be argumentative and think I am simply trying to stir the pot, but I really don't mean to be.

The State Cup provides a good level playing field for MPS to see where they stand with Maple teams. I'm not sure that's the reason MPS enters the State tournament but it works out that way.

If you look at the current U15 MPS Renegades, for example, they defeated the Maple Div 1 top team (Nova) to get to the RR. In the RR, they played close games with both Scorpians and Stars but lost to both but pretty easily defeated a low Division 1 team, Aztecs. Although not a perfect sample, it seems fair to say that the team would be a solid top Division 1 Maple team with potential to play at the Stars/Scorpians level if more depth is added to the team.

If you look at the U13 and U14 performance of the MPS Renegades, it is pretty consistent with the U15's (all made the RR). So, if if you're looking for a competitive soccer club for your daughter, Stars/Scorpians organizations still seem to be the most competitive but MPS is certainly competitive and at a Division 1 Maple level.

Why does MPS have their teams play in the state cup?

Why not?

[Fred Marks]

"Why does MPS have their teams play in the state cup?"

Its part of the most prestigious tournament in the country... why wouldnt they want to? They may play in a different league than most of us but they are still a soccer club.

[pitch420]

"Why does MPS have their teams play in the state cup?"

Its part of the most prestigious tournament in the country... why wouldnt they want to? They may play in a different league than most of us but they are still a soccer club.

Exactly.

Nice job signing in this time ;)

Let me start by saying that I have no dog in this hunt but this is a question for Keeper, or any other person knowledgeable and supportive of the MPS program. Why does MPS have their teams play in the state cup? I understand that some will take this to be argumentative and think I am simply trying to stir the pot, but I really don't mean to be.

The State Cup provides a good level playing field for MPS to see where they stand with Maple teams. I'm not sure that's the reason MPS enters the State tournament but it works out that way.

If you look at the current U15 MPS Renegades, for example, they defeated the Maple Div 1 top team (Nova) to get to the RR. In the RR, they played close games with both Scorpians and Stars but lost to both but pretty easily defeated a low Division 1 team, Aztecs. Although not a perfect sample, it seems fair to say that the team would be a solid top Division 1 Maple team with potential to play at the Stars/Scorpians level if more depth is added to the team.

If you look at the U13 and U14 performance of the MPS Renegades, it is pretty consistent with the U15's (all made the RR). So, if if you're looking for a competitive soccer club for your daughter, Stars/Scorpians organizations still seem to be the most competitive but MPS is certainly competitive and at a Division 1 Maple level.

Do other Maple parents agree with the above? Is MPS really D1 Maple comparable?

[pitch420]

Do other Maple parents agree with the above? Is MPS really D1 Maple comparable?

Not an easy thing to answer. Depends on the individual team I think. Some are stronger than others just like any other team.

Renegades tend to be stronger than their Cape counterparts.

If you use some of the results from the Needham and RR you can see that some teams can compete.

Maybe someone could persuade Mathman to post some updated ratings. The last go round had the U14 Renegades in the 600's which is comparable to mid-level MAPLE D1 teams. Although the updated ratings might change, it doesn't appear that they would be at the top of D1 (the winning D1 team had a rating near 1000).

[Fred Marks]

I would say that MPS themselves are comparable but many of the other Super Y Northeast teams are not. That is the problem I would think.

Do other Maple parents agree with the above? Is MPS really D1 Maple comparable?

Not an easy thing to answer. Depends on the individual team I think. Some are stronger than others just like any other team.

Renegades tend to be stronger than their Cape counterparts.

If you use some of the results from the Needham and RR you can see that some teams can compete.

The competition at Needham was pretty thin this year. For example, at U14, the Renegades were the only State Cup RR team to enter. I think there may have been only a single MAPLE D1 team and they finished near the bottom of the heap.

I would say that MPS themselves are comparable but many of the other Super Y Northeast teams are not. That is the problem I would think.

Wouldn't it make sense then, for MPS to play in Maple? Would Maple allow them to play D1 or would they have to start at the bottom. If competition is what is desired, it would be great if Maple made an exception and let the Renegades play D1 rather than MASC (to qualify for the State Cup) which is a complete waste of time and humiliating for the other MASC teams who are pounded by the Renegades.

[Hammer]

It would make sense for MPS to play MAPLE but they would not do that as it would limit thier tryout process and would have to abide by the recruiting rules that MAPLE has in place.

[Cujo]

Re: Is development hampered by Super Y participation

This is a real question for MPS parents.

I'm considering MPS Renegades for my daughter. I can see from their website that they have qualified coaches and practice 3X per week and would seem to get good training. My issue is that I don't see how their in-game development can occur playing against the current teams in the New England SuperY. There may be a good team here or there, but how do you develop when you are playing teams from clubs and states that historically are not competitive. The BW RI team was mentioned as competitive but FH and Crusaders advanced a total of 2 teams into the semi's of State Cup.... Previously in this thread it was mentioned that there were numerous friendlies not listed on the club or team sites. Please provide some representative examples. Honest feedback not confrontation is what I'm looking for.

If you believe that league play is the most important aspect of developing a soccer player and that league standings are a quantifiable indicator of your daughter’s development as an athlete and a person, just follow the collective wisdom of the majority of those posting within this forum. You need to be in one of the top four D1 teams. Tryouts will be coming very soon, but I wouldn’t wait.

Your post boils down to a presumption of your daughter’s skill level and a simple question about ability of the MPS to develop her as a soccer player. You are worried that MPS my not be good enough for your daughter. Let’s pretend that you are a real parent asking an honest question and not just another coach trying to start yet another MPS rant.

I think your approach to this is rather foolish. If your interest in MPS is based on viewing their WEB site and then going to a forum of nameless people for advice, I’d say that you are not really making a serious effort The first question I’d ask would be how long have you been with your current Club and why are you leaving? Whether you look at MPS or any other Club, the next questions would be the same.

With your present Club, have you had a frank conversation with your current or next season’s Coach?

Have you determined the right skill and commitment level for your daughter?

Have you thought about travel time and summer vacation plans?

Have you gone to see the new team play and train?

Have you talked with the new Coach?

Have you talked with parents or players at the new Club in person?

Since existing teams may not be looking for certain positions, have you looked at the rosters?

Have you talked with the new team’s manager?

If you are still thinking of MPS, you also need look at their schedule since it is very different and if summer playing is not possible, it’s a moot point.

Go to the tryouts for any MAPLE team that seems like a match, and since the MPS season is just starting, go watch a game and see a training session.

Now the hard part; decide on the top 5-10 things your daughter wants from playing soccer. Then think about what you want for her, and begin to rate all the teams/coaches/clubs.

Everybody is different and there is no single correct answer, you need to do what works best for your daughter. Playing in either SuperY, MAPLE D1-2-3, R1 or SubR is really not going to make a big difference. Pick a team - coach - club, these league debates are meaningless.

Keeper,

Thanks for the feedback, but keep your condescending crap for your friends. It's very presumptuous on your part to assume I'm a fool. I understand how clubs work. I don't know anybody that plays for MPS. I asked an actual question concerning one aspect of development called game competition. Individuals and teams are challenged to utilize skills learned in practice by playing against strong competition. Playing against Maple D, Sub R or Nordic won't require the same speed of play as playing against PDA. If I didn't disagree with your contention that leagues and level of play in those leagues was meaningless, I would not have asked the question.

You are quite welcome and I'm only too glad to help.

BTW - I said: "I think your approach to this is rather foolish"

However, based on your response, it is clear that you already knew the answer you wanted for your original question, and your posting was merely a ruse. Your subject “Is development hampered by Super Y participationâ€￾ was not a question but a statement and you were just on a fishing trip.

Just another “anonymous" poster pretending to be something their not.

However, my advice still stands. Nobody should make a decision based on information from a nameless forum. Talk with the coaches, other parents, and watch teams play and train. There are some very good programs and some very bad ones. However. different players need different things and one path does not work for everyone.




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I will say one thing. Parents are rarely qualified to evaluate how good a player is. The problem is that they focus on individual results and stats within the context of team results and team stats rather than looking at where their child stands in terms of technical and tactical development at the critical ages of 11 to 14. One of the biggest problems is that parents tend to focus on the ball. When I am evaluating players I spent alot of time watching them away from the ball. At the higher levels of play nearly every kid has decent technique. It is easy to find 15 players who are relatively competent technically. I cannot tell you how many highly talented players that I have either coached for or against that were brilliant technically but hopelessly lost away from the ball or that were incapable of involving their teammates. I don't know whether the post is a ruse or not but I can't help but be uncomfortable a little with the undercurrent of parental arrogance in the original post. It had a little bit of the "I am looking for a club that is worthy of my kids presence" attitude in it. The world has enough Terrell Owens in it.

The competition at Needham was pretty thin this year. For example, at U14, the Renegades were the only State Cup RR team to enter. I think there may have been only a single MAPLE D1 team and they finished near the bottom of the heap.

U13 Renegades? These guys in particular showed success against solid D1 teams in Needham and RR.