Monitoring The MPS Impact

As a parent, I have seen a number of mps games and a lot of maple
games.

without question, the intensity of maple games is far higher.
the athletic ability of maple players is far higher.
the competition is much stronger in maple.

Other parents who travel all over new england for their
kids to enjoy the benefits of mps and super y have made their
decision to do so, and it is their time and money.
Mps plays in a B league.
Maple is the strongest league in NE.

Personally, I do not think I could justify it,
but it is great for the kids who want to play mps to
have their parents support.

If you are talking about younger players none of this matters (say up to U13) - it is the training and the parity of the competition. U13 and up the competition is more important. The value of MPS vs MAPLE depends therefore in part on the age of your player.

[soccerlimo]

Susy in a nut shell its much ado about nothing.Politics and B.S.A few things I would like to clearup though.First off the Stars have the coachs with the English accents MPS are Irish ;) As far as costs go the easiest way to compare I find is break down cost per hour your child is being coached,MPS starts practice in late Dec. 2x a week till around the end of March, when the weather permits its 3x a week till about 1st week in Aug.
The two younger teams play in MASC for fall.Not including tournaments my daughters U-15 team will play about 23 games.Overall they play more games and practice more than your AVERAGE Maple team.Indoors practice they try to find turf ,which costs more than your average gym.Why turf?Because last time I checked nobody plays matches on a bball court.Last time I did the math they where in the ballpark cost wise ,not the stratosphere.As far as tournaments they dont always stay close to home,it depends on the team just like any Maple team.Coaching quality depends on the coach, just like any Maple team except that MPS teaches the same style of play thruogh out.As far as quality of the teams in Super -Y it depends on the age group,in my daughters with the exception of Nordic most are high Div.2 low Div.1.And I have also seen my share of crappy Div.1 Maple teams and games.Would I like to see my kids team play in region 1 ?Sure ,but Im only one of 20 something parents,I would hate to see the team break apart just to get in 5 or 6 tougher games.They are not duckin anybody.
Uniforms.
Yes,I do find it silly that every year its a new Uni ,bag,sweats, etc.But thats the way they do it.One reason is sponsorship change ,the other is they want there teams to look good and profesional.Keep in mind they have to support the #1 team sponsors are important.By the way my daughter wouldnt be caught DEAD wearing her UNI to school but some of her teammates do.So what.I find a sideline full of parents with club hats,shirts,umbrellas,chairs, undies,etc. much more pathetic.SIDENOTE: If you have a cowbell or horn please leave it at home.
Also all MPS parents are also not lemmings dancing around throwing money at a statue of the Bradley brothers like Hairy Krishnas.Theres bitchn and moanin the same as any Maple club.
Bottom line after 3 Maple clubs this is the one we find is the best fit. I beleive it was Keeper who said it best on the other site"They are just another club".

[Susy Soccer]

Susy in a nut shell its much ado about nothing.Politics and B.S.A few things I would like to clearup though.First off the Stars have the coachs with the English accents MPS are Irish ;) As far as costs go the easiest way to compare I find is break down cost per hour your child is being coached,MPS starts practice in late Dec. 2x a week till around the end of March, when the weather permits its 3x a week till about 1st week in Aug.
The two younger teams play in MASC for fall.Not including tournaments my daughters U-15 team will play about 23 games.Overall they play more games and practice more than your AVERAGE Maple team.Indoors practice they try to find turf ,which costs more than your average gym.Why turf?Because last time I checked nobody plays matches on a bball court.Last time I did the math they where in the ballpark cost wise ,not the stratosphere.As far as tournaments they dont always stay close to home,it depends on the team just like any Maple team.Coaching quality depends on the coach, just like any Maple team except that MPS teaches the same style of play thruogh out.As far as quality of the teams in Super -Y it depends on the age group,in my daughters with the exception of Nordic most are high Div.2 low Div.1.And I have also seen my share of crappy Div.1 Maple teams and games.Would I like to see my kids team play in region 1 ?Sure ,but Im only one of 20 something parents,I would hate to see the team break apart just to get in 5 or 6 tougher games.They are not duckin anybody.
Uniforms.
Yes,I do find it silly that every year its a new Uni ,bag,sweats, etc.But thats the way they do it.One reason is sponsorship change ,the other is they want there teams to look good and profesional.Keep in mind they have to support the #1 team sponsors are important.By the way my daughter wouldnt be caught DEAD wearing her UNI to school but some of her teammates do.So what.I find a sideline full of parents with club hats,shirts,umbrellas,chairs, undies,etc. much more pathetic.SIDENOTE: If you have a cowbell or horn please leave it at home.
Also all MPS parents are also not lemmings dancing around throwing money at a statue of the Bradley brothers like Hairy Krishnas.Theres bitchn and moanin the same as any Maple club.
Bottom line after 3 Maple clubs this is the one we find is the best fit. I beleive it was Keeper who said it best on the other site"They are just another club".

Too funny - Bolded statements above are what seemed significant or tickled my funny bone.

Practice amounts really aren't that different than my kid's team - except ours start about a month earlier (upper ages - others start in August) and end in early July (assuming no run for the nationals - yeah right).

Our club tries to stay on turf too - we go outside in JANUARY - as outdoor turf is surprisingly cheap that time of year. It is brutal but doable.

Our club is on a three year cycle with unis - that is basically all the guarantee you can get from an outfit like Nike. We're coming up on a uni change this fall and my pocketbook is already protesting. I can't imagine having to get new unis every year.

The only horns and cowbells I've seen are the non-MPS Crusaders (Boy did it make us parents want the girls to whup them next time around)

The one thing that does seem a little different is the competition - MAPLE Div 1 is better than the New England division of Super Y I think. This may be changing though as I haven't seen a lot of these teams play (except NH phantoms U14 or Seacoast U15 who were not that good. ) However if you look at the mid-atlantic division of Super Y -- those are some awesome teams including Pasco stallions (a/k/a Thunderbolts in Region One Premier League), FC Delco and the like.

Most of this seems much adu about nothing. It seems MPS really is just another club.

(By the way - I never said the thing about accents - someone else did.)

[coachmarino]

Coach Marino bashing?

I had to take a look when I heard about coach Marino bashing!

Couple of comments:

1) The best comment as usual, as I have been saying all along (and others) is that MPS is a club...period, comparing MPS to MAPLE is really a waste of time...

2) Most of my 'MPS bashing' came when I was either not working for a club or working at other clubs...I've been relatively quiet for about 2 years.

2a) I've never really gone after the quality of MPS coaching or their organization, the only things I've ever said about these things involves things that have been highlighted in this and other discussions: they have very good coaches and not as good coaches, they are spread thin because of what they are trying to do, which automatically means that there will be more success in certain regions, and communication is difficult over that size of an organization as well...particularly while they continue to try to grow, challenges of ALL clubs, obviously magnified by the size of MPS

2b) When I said that the club leadership misrepresented thereselves in the past, I was right, and it has nothing to do with whether the club is good or not. I just know that I don't get involved with those types of people.... Such misrepresentations include those in a past linked article which change the past history of the organization (saying that they set off to be a premier youth club, as opposed to having pro teams and camps and clinics, struggling to keep those afloat, and figuring out where the money was), and the early recruiting efforts (telling B level MAPLE players that they were considered in the top 2% of all players to convince lower age B level MAPLE players to play up for older Super Y teams)...that kind of stuff happened, and it helped the organization to grow...I didn't make it up. It says nothing for what the club is now or what good the coaches and teams do.

3) Certainly there is some good development going on there with some of the groups. They have good teams and good coaches. Their teams have improved during most years. I maintain that their early success at U18 and older was misleading because they really won't be able to keep that up...those kids did not grow up in the MPS system, etc.

4) There's no true pyramid structure...because the kids aren't going to be professional players. We still develop players for college level soccer, and once they get there, they are pretty much done. If they come back and play amateur soccer at the adult level in a club, great. But they aren't being developed for that. If the kids do play professionally, they are going to be playing for teams unrelated to MPS or any Massachusetts club, considering none of us have professional teams. This was succinctly put by Bolts DOC at a meeting of the clubs at MYSA about the USYS National League, in that the national league as well as other national league proposals are trying to replace the college showcase tournament structure...when really this is the reason players play in clubs like Bolts/Stars/Scorpions, to get that exposure.

Scorpions was approached by the WPSL to have a women's team a year ago, but we don't have the resources or player base yet to commit to it...we could have had the 'pyramid' structure as well...maybe we will one day, but not today.

5) Regarding the cost...the comparisons are tough. I know that one parent in our club is pulling a near entire family out of MPS to come to Scorpions. We do a pretty good job of keeping costs down. The $1,100 figure that we market doesn't paint the entire picture. We have a 2.5 rule, meaning that if you have 3 or 4 kids in the club, you only ever have to pay for 2.5 kids. The 1,100 cost includes two summer camps (one full day and one half day) and a complete training kit (drifit style shirt, shorts, socks) and two tournaments, as well as all of the indoor training rental fees.

I'd put that up against any other. It's challenging to then add travel costs...certainly if the MPS teams could get into the tournaments that Scorpions/Stars/Bolts go to and be competitive, there is no doubt they would try. And if you consider that our Premier teams (Premier is our second level) are competitive with MPS first teams, then you can say that the experience is similar, but the cost difference is tremendous. Our premier level teams stay more local, and certainly compete with MPS top teams.

Cost is one argument that I don't really think holds up. I can't speak for all MAPLE clubs, but I'd think that you are going to get far more for your money here. Let alone that our U18s and U19s don't pay anything if they've been in the club for 3+ years, and new players pay a nominal fee...they still get qualified coaches, they split league/tournament fees, you can't really compare. Most of these kids are already attending top colleges, many on soccer scholarship.

6) Despite the past recruiting stuff, MPS is going to recruit players...but I think that people who get on them for that are nuts. Every club in the world emphasizes player identification and scouting as one of the most important parts of their success. We're (all clubs) all accountable for our success on the field at some level, and you need talent to have that success. What MPS is trying to do more of now is to have levels of teams within an age group...you see that at the U14 level especially...they have a lot of teams at that age. We also have levels of team at that age as well. We try desparately to keep players in the club who want to stay. Our Academy (U10) graduates about 30-40 (more than that depending on the year) players every year...not everyone can play for the first team. There are very very few occasions where a player in the academy cannot graduate and play for our club for the rest of their careers.

If clubs do their part to develop every player, and are constantly monitoring the development of their second/third tier players, then they certainly cannot be called irresponsible or heartless. Certainly not everyone enjoys playing for a 'second' team, but if people understand the rationale behind playing levels and the entire process then they can properly enjoy the development experience. I know our club has promoted our fair share of players from lower levels to higher levels...

If MPS is successful at this as well, they can do all the recruiting for their top teams that they want...I would never fault a club for doing that if they still develop their players and give their players a place to play

[soccerlimo]

Susy,
That post wasnt directed soley at you,and I understand you didnt write that.I dont think either of us picked our clubs because of our coachs accent.And I agree for the most part that Maple Div.1 is stronger overall I just dont think the gap is that large as some posters think.Like I said its hit or miss,last year in our age group both Blackwatch teams,Renegades ,Phanthoms could have been competitive in lower Maple1.Seacoast,Crusaders,Ottawa Div.2.Nordic MASC.Thats just one age group the others could be playin the school for the blind for all I know.
Cya in hopefully sunny Amherst in 2 weeeks.

[keeper]

Yes, MPS is just another club. Many people really like it, and some obviously some don’t.

Yet just look at how some Clubs have their staffs spend so much time “critiquingâ€￾, “analyzingâ€￾, or questioning their qualifications. Every year, around this time, the cost of MPS seems to come up again, not by Parents, but by other Clubs.

So yes, MPS is just another club.

So the real question people should be asking themselves; is why are some Clubs are so obsessed with MPS that any mention of MPS draws them like flies to honey.

As it's already been said in this thread, people should judge for themselves and forget anything they read in here.



.

[Susy Soccer]

Cya in hopefully sunny Amherst in 2 weeeks.

It seems I can't remember the last time Amherst was sunny.

[onthree]

Susy, 3 a.m.?!

[Susy Soccer]

I woke up, couldn't get back to sleep. After I posted I was hoping no one would notice. Thanks for outing me Onthree.

Next thing you know I'll have my own blog. Let's see - we seem to have put the MPS thing to rest and I kind of think Beckham is cute so I won't write about him.

How about Didier Drogba - love him or hate him?

[pitch420]

Re: Coach Marino bashing?

I had to take a look when I heard about coach Marino bashing!

Couple of comments:

1) The best comment as usual, as I have been saying all along (and others) is that MPS is a club...period, comparing MPS to MAPLE is really a waste of time...

2) Most of my 'MPS bashing' came when I was either not working for a club or working at other clubs...I've been relatively quiet for about 2 years.

2a) I've never really gone after the quality of MPS coaching or their organization, the only things I've ever said about these things involves things that have been highlighted in this and other discussions: they have very good coaches and not as good coaches, they are spread thin because of what they are trying to do, which automatically means that there will be more success in certain regions, and communication is difficult over that size of an organization as well...particularly while they continue to try to grow, challenges of ALL clubs, obviously magnified by the size of MPS

2b) When I said that the club leadership misrepresented thereselves in the past, I was right, and it has nothing to do with whether the club is good or not. I just know that I don't get involved with those types of people.... Such misrepresentations include those in a past linked article which change the past history of the organization (saying that they set off to be a premier youth club, as opposed to having pro teams and camps and clinics, struggling to keep those afloat, and figuring out where the money was), and the early recruiting efforts (telling B level MAPLE players that they were considered in the top 2% of all players to convince lower age B level MAPLE players to play up for older Super Y teams)...that kind of stuff happened, and it helped the organization to grow...I didn't make it up. It says nothing for what the club is now or what good the coaches and teams do.

3) Certainly there is some good development going on there with some of the groups. They have good teams and good coaches. Their teams have improved during most years. I maintain that their early success at U18 and older was misleading because they really won't be able to keep that up...those kids did not grow up in the MPS system, etc.

4) There's no true pyramid structure...because the kids aren't going to be professional players. We still develop players for college level soccer, and once they get there, they are pretty much done. If they come back and play amateur soccer at the adult level in a club, great. But they aren't being developed for that. If the kids do play professionally, they are going to be playing for teams unrelated to MPS or any Massachusetts club, considering none of us have professional teams. This was succinctly put by Bolts DOC at a meeting of the clubs at MYSA about the USYS National League, in that the national league as well as other national league proposals are trying to replace the college showcase tournament structure...when really this is the reason players play in clubs like Bolts/Stars/Scorpions, to get that exposure.

Scorpions was approached by the WPSL to have a women's team a year ago, but we don't have the resources or player base yet to commit to it...we could have had the 'pyramid' structure as well...maybe we will one day, but not today.

5) Regarding the cost...the comparisons are tough. I know that one parent in our club is pulling a near entire family out of MPS to come to Scorpions. We do a pretty good job of keeping costs down. The $1,100 figure that we market doesn't paint the entire picture. We have a 2.5 rule, meaning that if you have 3 or 4 kids in the club, you only ever have to pay for 2.5 kids. The 1,100 cost includes two summer camps (one full day and one half day) and a complete training kit (drifit style shirt, shorts, socks) and two tournaments, as well as all of the indoor training rental fees.

I'd put that up against any other. It's challenging to then add travel costs...certainly if the MPS teams could get into the tournaments that Scorpions/Stars/Bolts go to and be competitive, there is no doubt they would try. And if you consider that our Premier teams (Premier is our second level) are competitive with MPS first teams, then you can say that the experience is similar, but the cost difference is tremendous. Our premier level teams stay more local, and certainly compete with MPS top teams.

Cost is one argument that I don't really think holds up. I can't speak for all MAPLE clubs, but I'd think that you are going to get far more for your money here. Let alone that our U18s and U19s don't pay anything if they've been in the club for 3+ years, and new players pay a nominal fee...they still get qualified coaches, they split league/tournament fees, you can't really compare. Most of these kids are already attending top colleges, many on soccer scholarship.

6) Despite the past recruiting stuff, MPS is going to recruit players...but I think that people who get on them for that are nuts. Every club in the world emphasizes player identification and scouting as one of the most important parts of their success. We're (all clubs) all accountable for our success on the field at some level, and you need talent to have that success. What MPS is trying to do more of now is to have levels of teams within an age group...you see that at the U14 level especially...they have a lot of teams at that age. We also have levels of team at that age as well. We try desparately to keep players in the club who want to stay. Our Academy (U10) graduates about 30-40 (more than that depending on the year) players every year...not everyone can play for the first team. There are very very few occasions where a player in the academy cannot graduate and play for our club for the rest of their careers.

If clubs do their part to develop every player, and are constantly monitoring the development of their second/third tier players, then they certainly cannot be called irresponsible or heartless. Certainly not everyone enjoys playing for a 'second' team, but if people understand the rationale behind playing levels and the entire process then they can properly enjoy the development experience. I know our club has promoted our fair share of players from lower levels to higher levels...

If MPS is successful at this as well, they can do all the recruiting for their top teams that they want...I would never fault a club for doing that if they still develop their players and give their players a place to play

Lots of good points; some I agree with and some I dont.

MPS does have that pyramid from cradle to grave is it were. At least to the highest professional level there is today.

In total agreement with developing your internal farm system, give the players that want to work up to the first teams a shot and try to keep them.

MPS' model as I understand it waits to hit the 'big' tournaments until later on but that obviously will depend on the teams individual strength.

in the end, whatever, its different and it is what it is. Its not going to change.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the five MPS teams that qualified for the U-13 to U-17 RR would be competitive in MAPLE D1. Not saying they would win the group or even finish in the top half, but their performance in the preliminary rounds clearly indicates that they are as trong as most of these teams. The problem is that to get the automatic D1 invite you need to make the finals and up to this point they have been unable to get to that level (at least in the younger age groups). I happen to believe that if the U-14s, 15s or 16s make the finals that MPS would enter that team in MAPLE. Probably not for the 13's or 17's. That is just a hunch.

Things between MPS and other clubs (and just between other clubs) are probably going to get more sensitive in the next couple of years. The unbridled expansion of club soccer during the last 7 years (espeecially on the girls side) is measurably slowing. Limited resources (players, coaches and facilities) will mean that competition hightens, jealousy abounds and conflicts increase. MPS is an easy target because they: a.) are relatively pricey; b.) have benefited the most from this expansion; and c.) manuever outside the traditional MYSA channels. Some of the critcism is baseless but some has merit (namely disputing the claim that what they do is SOOO different). I think they repesent the dynamic change from the small mom and pop clubs that dotted the country-side in the mid 90's to the business based programs of today.

[Cujo]

Susy in a nut shell its much ado about nothing.Politics and B.S.A few things I would like to clearup though.First off the Stars have the coachs with the English accents MPS are Irish ;) As far as costs go the easiest way to compare I find is break down cost per hour your child is being coached,MPS starts practice in late Dec. 2x a week till around the end of March, when the weather permits its 3x a week till about 1st week in Aug.
The two younger teams play in MASC for fall.Not including tournaments my daughters U-15 team will play about 23 games.Overall they play more games and practice more than your AVERAGE Maple team.Indoors practice they try to find turf ,which costs more than your average gym.Why turf?Because last time I checked nobody plays matches on a bball court.Last time I did the math they where in the ballpark cost wise ,not the stratosphere.As far as tournaments they dont always stay close to home,it depends on the team just like any Maple team.Coaching quality depends on the coach, just like any Maple team except that MPS teaches the same style of play thruogh out.As far as quality of the teams in Super -Y it depends on the age group,in my daughters with the exception of Nordic most are high Div.2 low Div.1.And I have also seen my share of crappy Div.1 Maple teams and games.Would I like to see my kids team play in region 1 ?Sure ,but Im only one of 20 something parents,I would hate to see the team break apart just to get in 5 or 6 tougher games.They are not duckin anybody.
Uniforms.
Yes,I do find it silly that every year its a new Uni ,bag,sweats, etc.But thats the way they do it.One reason is sponsorship change ,the other is they want there teams to look good and profesional.Keep in mind they have to support the #1 team sponsors are important.By the way my daughter wouldnt be caught DEAD wearing her UNI to school but some of her teammates do.So what.I find a sideline full of parents with club hats,shirts,umbrellas,chairs, undies,etc. much more pathetic.SIDENOTE: If you have a cowbell or horn please leave it at home.
Also all MPS parents are also not lemmings dancing around throwing money at a statue of the Bradley brothers like Hairy Krishnas.Theres bitchn and moanin the same as any Maple club.
Bottom line after 3 Maple clubs this is the one we find is the best fit. I beleive it was Keeper who said it best on the other site"They are just another club".

Hairy Krishnas? If I am not mistaken they are clean-shaven...... ;)

[FSM]

Some of the critcism is baseless but some has merit (namely disputing the claim that what they do is SOOO different). I think they repesent the dynamic change from the small mom and pop clubs that dotted the country-side in the mid 90's to the business based programs of today.

That's a very good point.

When MPS first started their SOE they were VERY different in their approach. They were doing SSG until U13 or U14, but they had a very difficult time selling the idea to parents, so they have had to modify that plan. Now, of course, we seem to be moving in a direction where kids will be playing SSG longer. And of course, there was the issue of expanded rosters and club passcards that Super Y/USCS allows, but USYSA/MYSA affiliated leagues didn't. USYSA has made some changes to compete with Super Y/USCS, but we are unfortunately slow to adopt the club passcard system here in Mass. There was also the issue of following the calendar year for forming teams in Super Y, but that maybe hurt MPS more than their eliminating dual rostering. In any case, changes at both ends have brought MPS and many USYSA/MYSA affiliated clubs closer together.

[pitch420]

Some of the critcism is baseless but some has merit (namely disputing the claim that what they do is SOOO different). I think they repesent the dynamic change from the small mom and pop clubs that dotted the country-side in the mid 90's to the business based programs of today.

That's a very good point.

When MPS first started their SOE they were VERY different in their approach. They were doing SSG until U13 or U14, but they had a very difficult time selling the idea to parents, so they have had to modify that plan. Now, of course, we seem to be moving in a direction where kids will be playing SSG longer. And of course, there was the issue of expanded rosters and club passcards that Super Y/USCS allows, but USYSA/MYSA affiliated leagues didn't. USYSA has made some changes to compete with Super Y/USCS, but we are unfortunately slow to adopt the club passcard system here in Mass. There was also the issue of following the calendar year for forming teams in Super Y, but that maybe hurt MPS more than their eliminating dual rostering. In any case, changes at both ends have brought MPS and many USYSA/MYSA affiliated clubs closer together.

Super Y is soccer year, not calendar year.

There was also the issue of following the calendar year for forming teams in Super Y, but that maybe hurt MPS more than their eliminating dual rostering.

Super Y is soccer year, not calendar year.

SuperY tried going by calendar year for one year. It was a big mistake and hurt MPS badly.