Monitoring The MPS Impact

[Nutsforsoccer]

Looking at the 2006 results, out of 14 age brackets MPS had 9 teams reach the semi's, 2 reaching the finals with 1 winner. MPS is consistantly rated in the high 20's before the early rounds of the state cup and those teams played and beat many good Maple teams to advance as far as they did. Not too shabby.

I think you may be deluding yourself about the results. In the major age bracket (U13-U18) MPS entered 22 teams and had only 7 make it to the semis. None won the state championship. Juxtapose this to the success of Greater Boston who entered only 11 teams into the state cup and came away winning the whole thing in 5 age groups. Whether you realize it or not MPS is now a huge club and may have the largest player pool in the state. With this in mind, I would suggest that their results are disappointing at best.

Above in bold - Here is probably the most ironic statement made so far in all the years of this MPS debate.

MPS has been seriously building its age group program for 5 or 6 years.

It has now built it into one of the largest clubs / player pools (according to BTDT).

It has done this in a MAPLE Club culture that for their own protective reasons has been very negative to MPS's existence.

The various critics of MPS - the South Coast leadership, the CRU leadership and Sir Alex, Spirit Coach et al...

Have cited cost, poaching, and poor development framework as negatives against MPS.

Yet, MPS has grown significantly the last 5 years and have become increasingly more competitive.

Why?

The development of its players the last 5 years leads to more and more players/parents wanting to leave existing clubs. They deem it good value (development) at the price - even though it is more expensive than other clubs.

They have built a school of excellence program that is just now starting to competively feed its under 13 program.

I still think it will be 3 to 5 years before this translates into perhaps having all its teams consistently rank near the top of each age group.

I consider their success huge so far and if I were starting from scratch I would think it would take a good 7 to 10 years (especially with all the negative influences against MPS by competitor Maple Clubs) to build a good club environment that provides a consistent approach top to bottom. So they are 5 years into this process or halfway under a 10 year timeline.

So BTDT - I think your missing the big picture of "success" - that MPS is attracting more and more players year after year because its reputation of providing consistent quality development in terms of individual skills, team play, team cohesiveness, and character building.

[Nutsforsoccer]

So BTDT - I think your missing the big picture of "success" - that MPS is attracting more and more players year after year because its reputation of providing consistent quality development in terms of individual skills, team play, team cohesiveness, and character building.

Pound your chest all you want. I have observed MPS for several years and even considered it for one of my kids but backed away. I'm not even discounting that one of my kids may some day end up there. At this point I have come to realize that when the kids get older you never can tell how the teams and leagues will align. If MPS becomes the next Greater Boston maybe we'll be there. Never say never. That said, the conclusion I have reached is the operation as it is currently operating appears to be more about money than quality. A lot of their growth is coming through the SOE. Most newbie parents are easily impressed with an English accent and have no idea what a quality soccer coach is so they buy what MPS is selling hook line and sinker. Based upon first hand experience, MPS roles into a town, proclaims themselves the gods of soccer, and then cherry picks the youngest and brightest in the town program. I have watched them operate along side my own town's program and honestly have been disappointed with the results I have seen. Sure the kids have nice uniforms that they wear around to impress their friends (marketing) but for the amount of time and money spent I have not seen anyone one of the players from our program break through and show any level of superiority. Considering that MPS started with our best and most motivated I would consider this to be disturbing. Bottom line is that the coaching I have seen is mediocre. I don't doubt that MPS has some quality coaches but from I stand they must be spread very thin.

BTDT:

1. Jealousy exposed. Marketing, Team/Club Spirit - it is all good and okay.

2. MPS didn't start with the best. In fact they started with the end of benchers and the less developed players. They did subsequently attract good players from other clubs, but only after these good players and their parents saw the development success of the initial MPSers. All of a sudden long time MYSA ODPers were being replaced by these initial MPSers. Success breeds success and attracts others.

3. I agree spreading thin should be concern of MPS. Growth without preparation is always a problem for any venture.

6 of the 9 semi-finalists (plus the two finalists and the champion) were in the age groups of U-17, U-18 and U-19. I am not exactly sure how that reflects upon the long term strategy of building the quality via the SOEs or as evidence that MPS quality is based more on it being a repository club? Club soccer is a pretty dynamic testing ground in which empires are won and lost in a matter of a couple years. The value of the SOEs should be pretty visable in this years U-13 to U-15 age groups. As of right now MPS has two teams in those 6 RR groups (U-13 and U-14 girls) and a chance for maybe two more (U-15 girls and Boys) Championships by any of those four teams would be seen as monumental upsets but they are all good enough teams to honestly believe they could make the semi's and with some luck the finals. No doubt their success is in the numbers - the fact that they have so many teams that can compete at a level just below the top is evident of that and also evidence of great success. They are a program that is still on the rise - maybe a good topic would be programs on the upswing, those that are stagnent and those lurching downward??

Probably the clubs that have stagnated or slid the most from their glory days 5 to 10 years ago are CRU and Inter/Bandits. At least in terms of being consistently competitive across several age groups. Also Fuller Hamlets probably should be included in this group as well.

[Nutsforsoccer]

6 of the 9 semi-finalists (plus the two finalists and the champion) were in the age groups of U-17, U-18 and U-19. I am not exactly sure how that reflects upon the long term strategy of building the quality via the SOEs or as evidence that MPS quality is based more on it being a repository club? Club soccer is a pretty dynamic testing ground in which empires are won and lost in a matter of a couple years. The value of the SOEs should be pretty visable in this years U-13 to U-15 age groups. As of right now MPS has two teams in those 6 RR groups (U-13 and U-14 girls) and a chance for maybe two more (U-15 girls and Boys) Championships by any of those four teams would be seen as monumental upsets but they are all good enough teams to honestly believe they could make the semi's and with some luck the finals. No doubt their success is in the numbers - the fact that they have so many teams that can compete at a level just below the top is evident of that and also evidence of great success. They are a program that is still on the rise - maybe a good topic would be programs on the upswing, those that are stagnent and those lurching downward??

Probably the clubs that have stagnated or slid the most from their glory days 5 to 10 years ago are CRU and Inter/Bandits. At least in terms of being consistently competitive across several age groups. Also Fuller Hamlets probably should be included in this group as well.

Sorry for the duplicate post. I thought I was logged in when I was cutting and pasting from old touchline.

Administrator feel free to deleted above Guest posting.

[Nutsforsoccer]

So is Super Y here to stay? I think it says a lot for one a club as successful as Colorado Rush to join.

kudos to MPS, Seacoast for sticking with it.

FROM SUPER Y SITE
USL Announces Super Y-League Rocky Mountain Division
Western Conference expansion division to include three MLS clubs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tuesday, May 15

TAMPA – United Soccer Leagues announced today the establishment of a Rocky Mountain Division to the Super Y-League. The division, operating initially out of the U16 and U17 boys’ age range, includes the youth academy sides of Major Leagues Soccer’s Real Salt Lake, Real Salt Lake Arizona, Kansas City Wizards, and the Colorado Rapids. Also competing in the division will be the Colorado Rush, Boulder County Force, and Blue Valley SC from Kansas City.

“Our primary objective in establishing this program is to see players go through the system successfully and become members of the senior squad, donning the Wizards uniform and playing Major League Soccer,â€￾ said Wizards President, Robb Heineman.

The Colorado Rush, one of the premier youth soccer organizations in the nation, operates out of Littleton, Colorado. Formed in 1997 by the unification of Lakewood United Soccer Club and Club Columbine, the Colorado Rush has an established youth base of over 5,000.

“The Colorado Rush is very excited to be invited to be part of the Rocky Mountain division of USL’s Super Y-League,â€￾ said Colorado Rush Technical Director Nik Penn. “This is a great opportunity for our players to compete against professional club youth teams and some of the best teams in the region. The incentive to be showcased for the National ODP pool is also a huge draw for our players.â€￾

The Boulder County Force, formed in 1979, is located Boulder, Colorado. The club’s goals include creating a strong, vertically integrated development system and providing their players with opportunities to gain nomination to Olympic Development Programs. By joining USL the club gains representation in the Super Y-League’s ODP System.

“These two clubs were chosen to represent the Rocky Mountain region in the Super Y-League based on their national reputation and performance throughout the past decade,â€￾ said USL Senior Director of Youth League Development, Jeff McRaney. “Coupled with the youth academies of three MLS franchises, the Rocky Mountain division will quickly become a formidable presence on the Super Y-League’s national stage.â€￾

All clubs operating out of the Super Y-League’s Rocky Mountain Division are eligible for the North American Finals held at the conclusion of each season in Tampa, Florida. The champion of the U16 and U17 boys Rocky Mountain Division will be invited to join the field of champions from every region of North America to decide the 2007 Super Y-League Champion.

USL SUPER Y-LEAGUE
The future of soccer lives in the USL Super Y-League, a professionalized system that is the first step for developing elite youth soccer players in North America. Affiliated with US Soccer and partnered with US Club Soccer, the league is designed for talented youth players destined for professional or international careers. The league contains the youth academies of USL First Division, USL Second Division, Premier Development League, W-League, and Major League Soccer clubs, as well as many of the established premier youth clubs. Through Olympic Development Program status events such as the North American Finals and National ODP Camps, the nation’s top players are identified for selection to US National Team Programs. The 2007 campaign features over 800 teams within the U13 – U17 boys and girls age groups competing within 10 geographic divisions of the U.S. and Canada.

[Nutsforsoccer]

Additional subtopic within the topic....Why is MPS more successful on the girls side than the boys side?


So the subtopics within the topic are:

1. Is MPS a success?
2. Is Super Y here to stay?
3. Why MPS more successful with girls than boys?
4. What clubs' success are growing, stagnating, and declining?

[Nutsforsoccer]

I think the division of leadership between boys and girls is reason for MPS being more successful with girls. The club philosophy, fair treatment of players, and commitment requirement / penalties appears to be more consistently applied on the girls side.

[FSM]

I think it says a lot for one a club as successful as Colorado Rush to join.

Chicago Magic is also another big club (#1 according to Soccer America for the past 3 years), but they also continue to participate in USYSA leagues. I have noticed that in the Big Soccer forum on Chicago soccer, they have had similiar discussions as we do here in Mass. regarding the long travel of Super Y for what may be a lower level of competition.

The partnership in So Cal between the Coast Soccer League and Super Y is what may determine Super Y's eventual success. http://www.coastsoccer.com/cgi-win/main.exe?dN31 This was a real coup for Super Y and what has USYSA in such as tizzy.

So the subtopics within the topic are:

1. Is MPS a success?
2. Is Super Y here to stay?
3. Why MPS more successful with girls than boys?
4. What clubs' success are growing, stagnating, and declining?

There are a lot more:

5. MPS entered the youth soccer market with almost every existing soccer organization trying to defeat them and publicly slamming them at every turn. It is now a multimillion dollar business providing a product that appeals to many in one of the most difficult consumer markets. Why didn’t anyone do it before?

6. As been pointed out many many times, MPS does not have the State Cup trophies to brag on, they are more expensive, they are don’t get he “best playersâ€￾, they don’t go to the “bestâ€￾ tournaments, they don’t play in the “best leagueâ€￾, and according to some of coaches at one particular club, they as much as lie, cheat and steal. Yet, many people join the program and seem very happy with it. What are they doing differently?

[Guest]

Some might find it interesting that the MPS debate does find its way to topic of conversation on the parent sidelines.

Many of us with kids playing for MPS find it amusing that there is so much disdain for MPS, but we are more like the cat that swallowed the canary. Purely for selfish reasons I hope new players never show up. I would love to see the current teams stay in tact and develop. It would truly be a sad day to have to go back into the Maple Club environment again.

Us MPS parents are not the only ones talking about the MPS debate on the sidelines though. At every State Cup game this year I and others have been asked about the program by opposing parents.

Most of us wish the debate would go away though because we feel like we have a good thing going.. One criticism I do have is that MPS is too eager to drop players at the younger ages when someone better shows up. I wish they were more committed to players that have shown a commitment to them.

Additional subtopic within the topic....Why is MPS more successful on the girls side than the boys side?


So the subtopics within the topic are:

1. Is MPS a success?
2. Is Super Y here to stay?
3. Why MPS more successful with girls than boys?
4. What clubs' success are growing, stagnating, and declining?

1. Yes. Growth, recruitment and attraction of new players, and development capabilities are strong.

2. Yes. They have made it over the hump. They still need to improve the administrative and communication aspect of managing the business.

3. The girls are more successful because the leadership. There has been more patience in developing the girls and more panic to win with the boys.

4. Increasing success are Aztecs, Western Mass Pioneers, Scorpions, and MPS. Stagnating are Greater Boston, Western United and Crusaders. Declining are Inter-Bandits, Fuller Hamlets, and CRU.

I think we are headed to a day of 4 or 5 super clubs.

[pitch420]

Additional subtopic within the topic....Why is MPS more successful on the girls side than the boys side?


So the subtopics within the topic are:

1. Is MPS a success?
2. Is Super Y here to stay?
3. Why MPS more successful with girls than boys?
4. What clubs' success are growing, stagnating, and declining?

1. Yes. Growth, recruitment and attraction of new players, and development capabilities are strong.

2. Yes. They have made it over the hump. They still need to improve the administrative and communication aspect of managing the business.

3. The girls are more successful because the leadership. There has been more patience in developing the girls and more panic to win with the boys.

4. Increasing success are Aztecs, Western Mass Pioneers, Scorpions, and MPS. Stagnating are Greater Boston, Western United and Crusaders. Declining are Inter-Bandits, Fuller Hamlets, and CRU.

I think we are headed to a day of 4 or 5 super clubs.

Kind of like the Banking industry.

I have friends with daughters on MPS and they love the whole experience. My own is seriously thinking of exploring, maybe even attending a few practices to see first hand.

The other dynamic within MPS is the CC Crusaders vs Renegades. Renegades tend to be stronger and their arm of the club has more members. Probably due to less competition in that area and players from the south shore, cape in particular, have to deal with other aspects of moving to MPS.

From what I understand, the younger teams wont do all the Score at the Shore's or PDA's, etc until the time is right.

I also understand that they will be heavily involved with the new Breakers WSII team with camps, etc.

When you get right down to it, MPS is a soccer club, plain and simple.

MPS is a soccer club and not a MAPLE club. If you don’t know the difference, it’s not worth trying to explain it. You need to see it for yourself and without listening to anyone who posts on this board. Spend ten minutes looking over their WEB page to see the depth of their activities.

Aztec Soccer is following the same path and is building a real soccer club. Compare either of these two clubs to your MAPLE club of choice.

Whichever you choose, do the homework and decide for yourself. Most of the people on this board who are known for their anti-MPS position are angry competitors. The fact that MPS gets mentioned in any positive way usually means an attack will begin shortly.

There is nothing wrong your typical MAPLE club, many do a wonderful job and the kids have a great time. They provide a great experience at a bargain cost. What you choose just depends on what you’re looking for. There is no one answer that will work for everyone.

[quote="back4"]MPS is a soccer club and not a MAPLE club. If you don’t know the difference, it’s not worth trying to explain it.

Amen!

[Susy Soccer]

Okay - so I'll bite.

The difference is that soccer clubs are built around a pyramid with professional adult teams at the top while "MAPLE" clubs (with teams that may or may not play MAPLE) are basically U11-U18? Other than that I do not see a huge difference in the structure as evidenced on the web sites. Many "MAPLE" clubs have academies for younger kids (eg. Scorpions, Stars, Bolts, Fuller, Inter Bandits) which can be likened to the SOE of MPS. Many have camps although perhaps not as broadly based as MPS since that's the way MPS started in the youth field.

MPS, Jr. Pioneers, Aztecs, and NH Phantoms are soccer clubs and most of the rest are not? Please explain differences further as I may have missed the subtleties.

I sat next to an MPS parent on a plane to Vegas (GU15) and he too was very happy despite the high price tag ($3000). I know another parent (BU17) who is very unhappy (not an MPS soccer club) but the kid is stuck because they are trying to get something for the huge fee they paid. I am not an MPS opponent and I am happy with the training received at the local "MAPLE" club so I can't see I'll be moving my kid to MPS or another "soccer" club. However, I have followed this debate for years now and I still don't get it.