The Rise of NEFC: Anatomy of Creating a Juggernaut

[Unregistered]

Just blame me. The other fellow rarely, if ever, posts here anymore. He's been pretty dormant for a couple of years.

As for me, it's all true. I AM unemployed. I've been living in a drug-infested motel for the past 8 months. Single light bulb swinging on a cord in the middle of the room. Shower is filthy with black soot everywhere and have to reach inside the flow tank to pull the chain to flush the toilet each time. No mirror over the cracked sink with the hot water knob missing, so at least I don't have to look at myself. Got my bottle of Jack on the little bureau next to the bed that is basically just a stained mattress with no sheets, and next to the bottle is a blackwatch beanbag ashtry overflowing with butts. A few open pizza boxes and Morton's TV dinner aluminum trays laying around the floor. Wearing the same t-shirt with coffee and underarm orange-yellow tones and some oversize camouflage shorts I got in the used bin at the Army/Navy store. But, what the heck, the WIFI mostly works and I got a semi-functional white plastic chair on the front stoop. It's all good. The weather's turning...I'm around some real people...and it's great to be alive.

Many possible causes of vivid hallucinations - most of them are not good. Seek help :)

[Unregistered]

Who's going to take over the metro north branch now that the doc there is moving?

Where is TM going?

[Unregistered]

Funny how Massachusetts views NEFC as a juggernaut. Look at the size of many clubs from other parts of the country. NEFC, Stars, Scorps are actually quite small

I am a former NEFC parent too and just because I am talking on this thread it does not mean I agree with the provocative term juggernaut. I think the program has moved from one of the many small clubs to one of the better non-DAP clubs in MA. That's it.

[Unregistered]

I will sum up TS for you. If you say anything good about NEFC then Perspective will reply accusing you of being a poster called BTDT and then go on to explain in about 10 paragraphs how you are wrong. Oh, don't say anything negative about Scorpions or Stars either. Mainly Stars. Now if you post something good about ECNL, Stars or Scorpions then you will have BTDT reply how ECNL is overrated and unnecessary and that their are other paths to greatness. Mainly through NEFC. After that they both will hijack the thread and basically ruin it for everybody by going back and forth at each other arguing. Enjoy!

i do not know who either are (perhaps they know each other personally) but i believe you summed it up correctly. I have never seen two people with enough time to write paragraphs and paragraphs of opinions, with a few "facts" added.

I agree with you, don't know who these bozo's are but for grown men to be so worried about kids soccer is pretty sick!! What do these guys do all day that they can spend hours writing stuff about kids soccer. I can see if it was professional sports and they had a stake in a team or something like that but to spend hundreds of hours on this site doesn't make sense for a sane person to do that.

Hi, I am the poster known as BTDT. Perhaps some of you can find a few "facts" in these paragraphs to discuss instead of merely hacking away at everyone you disagree with. Where I tend to agree with Perspective is there ARE often some fairly transparent attempts to "pull the wool" over the reader's eyes presumably with a specific agenda in mind. These 3 posts might be an example. Are they from the same person, who knows but it is remarkable how they seem to line up so conveniently. Now the difference between he and I is I don't think this is him and it doesn't drive me into tirades about their agenda or into calling for people to stop posting. I really just ignore those posts, recognizing what they are, and try to stay on target with the discussion.

So back to it. This first post is actually a gross simplification of history. None of we are discussing in this thread is actually new. The real issue has always been status quo versus change and there has been an element of this argument actively being discussed going all the way back to the old Touchline forum which MAPLE used to sponsor and where the seeds of this forum originated. Back on the old Touchline the main protagonists in this same debate were Stars and MPS. Honestly if you look at things objectively the real debate now might actually be that MPS is the real epicenter because their tremendous growth has made them the largest private soccer club in the state. I contend that the fact that people like Perspective completely ignore them always make this an NEFC vs Stars thing actually shows how disconnected they are from what is currently going on in the whole environment. I feel that they simply refuse to recognize change and see any discussion that disagrees with the status quo as a threat.

There has always been a bias here and on the old Touchline that the Stars represent the center of the soccer universe in this state and all of the other clubs are comparing themselves to them. Truthfully there absolutely was a time several years ago where that was pretty much right on target because the way that club soccer was organized under USYSA there was competitive hierarchy and basically you had to win State Cups to realistically advance anywhere. The Stars, and to a lesser degree the Scorpions, had a fantastic run where they virtually owned the State Cups up and down the various age groups for several years running so the reality was that everything did have to go through them. Unfortunately the competitive environment that created their dominance has dramatically changed. The ramifications of those changes is what all of this discussion is really about. I feel what has really being discussed now is more about the ideological battle between US Youth Soccer and US Club Soccer than Stars vs NEFC. I see club soccer as a much more complicated environment than it once was and think it warrants more discussion. Apparently a lot of you would rather bash kids and coaches and not recognize how that actually is part of

As far as my personal feelings about the Stars go, I feel that they made a series of fairly important BUSINESS miscalculations that opened up the doors for clubs like MPS and NEFC to leapfrog past them in terms of size and that more so than anything has impaired the Stars ability to keep on pace with their prior success. I think their move into the ECNL and then their support of the ECNL's decision to pull away from the state cups did more harm than anything anyone here on TS could do because they ended up conceding away the very thing that made them special and that opened up the door for NEFC to step in. What I have seen since then is they just haven't been able to accumulate the depth in their player pool that NEFC and MPS now have and are using the old recruiting mindset of team building to keep their teams relevant. I have always believed that what all of the ECNL debate was actually all about was about was recruiting players. It came down to pitching the benefits of that league, which they alone had access to, so players would jump ship and join their club. Honestly if they didn't need the players, does anyone honestly think we would have had any of that ECNL discussion at all? It was always about selling roster spots. As someone correctly pointed out, their efforts to hold on to their status as the top club Massachusetts essentially entailed destabilizing all of the other clubs because they were trying to lure away their best players. As a parent in one of those other clubs with a kid on a team that was being targeted, you are damn right I pushed back those efforts, especially when I could see that the logic they were using to recruit players was flawed. Unfortunately it has become far easier to label debate over opinions as an agenda driven attack, rather than discuss the relevant points.

[Unregistered]

Now one of the problems I have with a poster like Perspective is they have continually supported an ideal that I honestly don't believe exists any longer and see what they end up pitching as a complete misunderstanding of the current situation. It is very black and white with me, I just absolutely disagree with their point of view. Whether he is willing to admit it or not he has been quite prolific in his own right and it is not my fault that his message always ends up supporting the primary elements of the Stars marketing message claiming that they and the ECNL represent "THE" defacto solution for the elite soccer player. The fact is, my daughter is right at the level where all of that discussion is relevant and I am living the very things that EVERYONE seems to want to pitch to sell their club. I will flatly tell all of you (not just him) that NONE of these clubs around here have the answer at the elite level and are simply pitching a fantasy to sell roster spots. I don't care if you are talking about NEFC or the Stars, I see the whole environment as being broken.

Going back to the original topic. What created NEFC was their message of change. At its core it was part marketing savvy and part expansion. They simply took a page from the MPS playbook and morphed it into a slightly different marketing message that had a little bit broader appeal than what MPS was selling and then used mergers and acquisitions to put themselves into convenient locations so they could build up a fairly sizable youth academy. Where all the discussion about club politics misses the mark is the youth academies are what actually drives the success of the clubs and not the elite level. I think what NEFC did was realize that 99% of what drives a youth academy is convenience so by expanding into as many locations as they did they created a pretty big player pool. I also think that their arguments against cost actually resonated with youth academy families who did not quite understand club soccer yet and were wary of the extreme costs they heard were looming on the elite path. The truth was most of the people I was surrounded by at the time could have cared less about college recruiting and winning championships. What they wanted was a convenient carpool and a reasonable cost. All that the theoretical discussions about destination teams and id processes actually did was scare a lot of people away from the extreme end of club soccer to the more moderate pitch that NEFC was offering. That was what the juggernaut was all about. If people want to blame me for making that happen they really ought to look at themselves as well because they were just as involved in those conversations as I was.

[Unregistered]

Hi, I am the poster known as BTDT. Perhaps some of you can find a few "facts" in these paragraphs to discuss instead of merely hacking away at everyone you disagree with. Where I tend to agree with Perspective is there ARE often some fairly transparent attempts to "pull the wool" over the reader's eyes presumably with a specific agenda in mind. These 3 posts might be an example. Are they from the same person, who knows but it is remarkable how they seem to line up so conveniently. Now the difference between he and I is I don't think this is him and it doesn't drive me into tirades about their agenda or into calling for people to stop posting. I really just ignore those posts, recognizing what they are, and try to stay on target with the discussion.

So back to it. This first post is actually a gross simplification of history. None of we are discussing in this thread is actually new. The real issue has always been status quo versus change and there has been an element of this argument actively being discussed going all the way back to the old Touchline forum which MAPLE used to sponsor and where the seeds of this forum originated. Back on the old Touchline the main protagonists in this same debate were Stars and MPS. Honestly if you look at things objectively the real debate now might actually be that MPS is the real epicenter because their tremendous growth has made them the largest private soccer club in the state. I contend that the fact that people like Perspective completely ignore them always make this an NEFC vs Stars thing actually shows how disconnected they are from what is currently going on in the whole environment. I feel that they simply refuse to recognize change and see any discussion that disagrees with the status quo as a threat.

There has always been a bias here and on the old Touchline that the Stars represent the center of the soccer universe in this state and all of the other clubs are comparing themselves to them. Truthfully there absolutely was a time several years ago where that was pretty much right on target because the way that club soccer was organized under USYSA there was competitive hierarchy and basically you had to win State Cups to realistically advance anywhere. The Stars, and to a lesser degree the Scorpions, had a fantastic run where they virtually owned the State Cups up and down the various age groups for several years running so the reality was that everything did have to go through them. Unfortunately the competitive environment that created their dominance has dramatically changed. The ramifications of those changes is what all of this discussion is really about. I feel what has really being discussed now is more about the ideological battle between US Youth Soccer and US Club Soccer than Stars vs NEFC. I see club soccer as a much more complicated environment than it once was and think it warrants more discussion. Apparently a lot of you would rather bash kids and coaches and not recognize how that actually is part of

As far as my personal feelings about the Stars go, I feel that they made a series of fairly important BUSINESS miscalculations that opened up the doors for clubs like MPS and NEFC to leapfrog past them in terms of size and that more so than anything has impaired the Stars ability to keep on pace with their prior success. I think their move into the ECNL and then their support of the ECNL's decision to pull away from the state cups did more harm than anything anyone here on TS could do because they ended up conceding away the very thing that made them special and that opened up the door for NEFC to step in. What I have seen since then is they just haven't been able to accumulate the depth in their player pool that NEFC and MPS now have and are using the old recruiting mindset of team building to keep their teams relevant. I have always believed that what all of the ECNL debate was actually all about was about was recruiting players. It came down to pitching the benefits of that league, which they alone had access to, so players would jump ship and join their club. Honestly if they didn't need the players, does anyone honestly think we would have had any of that ECNL discussion at all? It was always about selling roster spots. As someone correctly pointed out, their efforts to hold on to their status as the top club Massachusetts essentially entailed destabilizing all of the other clubs because they were trying to lure away their best players. As a parent in one of those other clubs with a kid on a team that was being targeted, you are damn right I pushed back those efforts, especially when I could see that the logic they were using to recruit players was flawed. Unfortunately it has become far easier to label debate over opinions as an agenda driven attack, rather than discuss the relevant points.

Looking at the boys side, DAP grabbed most of the elite clubs, dumped the state cups, and seems so far to have kept the elite kids. Why did ECNL not pull that off?

[Unregistered]

Looking at the boys side, DAP grabbed most of the elite clubs, dumped the state cups, and seems so far to have kept the elite kids. Why did ECNL not pull that off?

location location location.

[Unregistered]

Looking at the boys side, DAP grabbed most of the elite clubs, dumped the state cups, and seems so far to have kept the elite kids. Why did ECNL not pull that off?

The main ECNL club has kept or attracted many relatively "elite" players. But so has the main non-ECNL club alternative. If the ECNL, instead of raising costs to some extent, also had a free or cheap option, the situation would surely be different.

[Unregistered]

The main ECNL club has kept or attracted many relatively "elite" players. But so has the main non-ECNL club alternative. If the ECNL, instead of raising costs to some extent, also had a free or cheap option, the situation would surely be different.

Another big difference I see with DAP is that a certain number of the clubs are funded by MLS teams, making the cost mostly go away. The other clubs can cater to the wealthy folks. So you can cover both demographics in the bigger states.

[Unregistered]

Another big difference I see with DAP is that a certain number of the clubs are funded by MLS teams, making the cost mostly go away. The other clubs can cater to the wealthy folks. So you can cover both demographics in the bigger states.

Agreed: thus the reference to a (DAP-like) "free or cheap option." The middle-class-and-above demographics on the girls' side will almost certainly remain a distinguishing characteristic of that game in the U.S.

[Unregistered]

Looking at the boys side, DAP grabbed most of the elite clubs, dumped the state cups, and seems so far to have kept the elite kids. Why did ECNL not pull that off?

The DAP is run by the federation, it's a direct line to National teams and Professional opportunities. There are national standards. The best players move onto national teams and professional teams and the next players get gobbled up by the top 20 D1 programs.

Half of the DAP are directly connected to MLS teams, and there is prestige to go along with that.

Add in the low cost/free nature of a Revs program, and the ECNL and DAP could not be more different.

The only things similar about the DAP and ECNL is that they both consist of most of the best clubs in the US, and they both forced their teams to withdraw from State Cup.

The ECNL is run by clubs, there is no national oversight, the clubs are extremely expensive, there is no relationship with the national team program and the end of the road for the kids is college soccer, just like all of the other clubs.

It's really wrong to compare the two.

[Unregistered]

On the boys - did the DAP help the rapid expansion of NEFC and MPS/GPS. Bolts who were the dominant boys club did not expand with going DAP. On my son's team there are quite a few Bolts players who did not want to give up high school so the left and went non-DAP rather than play for one of the lesser Bolts teams. Not being awarded DAP status might have help these two clubs?

[BostonSoccerDad]

Where is TM going?

Some mid-Atlantic state. Sorry, can't remember which one. I think the primary reason is to be closer to family. Wish him the best of luck: good guy who is an excellent soccer coach.

[Unregistered]

On the boys - did the DAP help the rapid expansion of NEFC and MPS/GPS. Bolts who were the dominant boys club did not expand with going DAP. On my son's team there are quite a few Bolts players who did not want to give up high school so the left and went non-DAP rather than play for one of the lesser Bolts teams. Not being awarded DAP status might have help these two clubs?

I made the post about the ECNL and DAP not being the same thing a couple of posts above.

But there is an interesting parallel.

The DAP was formed either the year after or two years after the many of excellent Bolts players left with FO for the Blazers. It really wasn't the marketing against the DAP.

The Bolts boys program is one of the oldest around, but their peaks were with EK and FO, and with those two departures the club had to retool and figure out how to recover.

The DAP really didn't dig deeply when choosing clubs. They chose clubs based on national reputation, by staff recognition, teams that were winning State Cup and teams that were producing national team players. They didn't see the behind the scenes stuff of big portions of players leaving.

So the Bolts were dealt a blow they really haven't recovered from. They had an initial bump from the DAP award. But they treated the young teams as financial aid for running the older teams, not as a feeder system. Coaching and organization at the younger age groups was severely lacking for a few years. During that time, FO built the Blazers.

MPS and NEFC lost players initially, but then focused more on their youth and more on the marketing message.

Bolts became second to the Revs quickly, but the real nail in the coffin for the Bolts was the high school player thing. The Bolts recruited on the basis of college soccer not pro play, and when the DAP players became unable to play for their high schools, the other clubs capitalized.

The parallel is on the girls side.

Stars helped found the ECNL, they had really taken the mantle of best girls club in Massachusetts already. The ECNL wanted to expand in New England.

I think again it was a season or two after PM and BB left Scorpions that Scorpions got the ECNL spot.

ECNL chose clubs by the same criteria. They wanted the best teams and the national team players. Scorpions had those at the time. PM and BB took the entire foundation.

The Scorpions have not taken the Bolts rout of just assuming players would come. They just hired the wrong people at the older age groups. FM rededicated himself to the younger kids, and they rebuilt the club from the ground up.

They underestimated the time it would take though. These are the prime ECNL years (U14-U17 since U13 is developmental and U18 is players on their way out) and they are still a couple of years away from having a team that can compete. They are 4-5 years away from having a competitive club across the age groups.

And they didn't have coaches strong enough to raise the levels of their older teams and also recruit like crazy to rebuild them. They were young and inexperienced.

In those senses, it is pretty similar. If you want to play in the DAP, you mostly play for the Revs, if you want to play in the ECNL, you mostly play for the Stars.

NEFC, and MPS, have grown with some credit to the decision making and execution at Bolts and Scorpions.

[Unregistered]

I made the post about the ECNL and DAP not being the same thing a couple of posts above.

But there is an interesting parallel.

The DAP was formed either the year after or two years after the many of excellent Bolts players left with FO for the Blazers. It really wasn't the marketing against the DAP.

The Bolts boys program is one of the oldest around, but their peaks were with EK and FO, and with those two departures the club had to retool and figure out how to recover.

The DAP really didn't dig deeply when choosing clubs. They chose clubs based on national reputation, by staff recognition, teams that were winning State Cup and teams that were producing national team players. They didn't see the behind the scenes stuff of big portions of players leaving.

So the Bolts were dealt a blow they really haven't recovered from. They had an initial bump from the DAP award. But they treated the young teams as financial aid for running the older teams, not as a feeder system. Coaching and organization at the younger age groups was severely lacking for a few years. During that time, FO built the Blazers.

MPS and NEFC lost players initially, but then focused more on their youth and more on the marketing message.

Bolts became second to the Revs quickly, but the real nail in the coffin for the Bolts was the high school player thing. The Bolts recruited on the basis of college soccer not pro play, and when the DAP players became unable to play for their high schools, the other clubs capitalized.

The parallel is on the girls side.

Stars helped found the ECNL, they had really taken the mantle of best girls club in Massachusetts already. The ECNL wanted to expand in New England.

I think again it was a season or two after PM and BB left Scorpions that Scorpions got the ECNL spot.

ECNL chose clubs by the same criteria. They wanted the best teams and the national team players. Scorpions had those at the time. PM and BB took the entire foundation.

The Scorpions have not taken the Bolts rout of just assuming players would come. They just hired the wrong people at the older age groups. FM rededicated himself to the younger kids, and they rebuilt the club from the ground up.

They underestimated the time it would take though. These are the prime ECNL years (U14-U17 since U13 is developmental and U18 is players on their way out) and they are still a couple of years away from having a team that can compete. They are 4-5 years away from having a competitive club across the age groups.

And they didn't have coaches strong enough to raise the levels of their older teams and also recruit like crazy to rebuild them. They were young and inexperienced.

In those senses, it is pretty similar. If you want to play in the DAP, you mostly play for the Revs, if you want to play in the ECNL, you mostly play for the Stars.

NEFC, and MPS, have grown with some credit to the decision making and execution at Bolts and Scorpions.

As you have hinted, the key is not the club or national organization that is most important. Whoever has the best cadre of coaches eventually gets the best teams.