The Scam that is Club Soccer

[Unregistered]

Thought this one deserved its own thread.

Without a doubt one may find plenty of parents that are not exactly truthful regarding the end result of their child's endeavors in soccer. The statistics show that very few actually receive any substantail scholarship money at all. Ironically, the majority of families involved in Club soccer, and the commitment to the ever rising cost and time invested, really don't need the financial awards at all, and then will naturally fall back on all the other good reasons that it was all worth it. It is now mostly about ego, bragging rights, a competitive drive to prove yuor child is better than mine. Youth soccer supports and expands that mindset, beginning at earlier and earlier ages as we make " progress".

Being so wrapped up in the sub culture of Youth soccer over so many years isolates and insulates many participants from actual reality. Nearly 65 % of ALL incoming students to higher education receive some sort of financial aid. Women receive more actual dollars and a higher percentage than men do. Athletic Aid is a very smal percentage of that actual amount.

When one removes themselves from the limited view as participants in youth soccer, the actual truth is revealed. A recent overview of over 30 graduates from a nearby state, that finished first in their class Academically, revealed one after another receiving " free rides" to top Colleges and Universities. Among their biolgraphies, very very few, listed soccer as an endeavor or any significant achievements in it. What the biographies reveal is students having spent countless hours in Academic pursuits, volunteer and social work, basically focusing on external circumstances, quite the opposite of the now soccer culture of " me, me & Me ". Of course there are those that are gifted artisticaly, but overall, you find thatthe best and brighest are well rounded, multi talented, with energies devoted to many directions. Not many involved nearly year round for most of their childhood in ONE endeavor like soccer.

If you have been fortunate to have had a child play 4 years of College soccer , you might have taken the time to look around at all the other students attending. Soccer players are a minority, for sure, but just how did all those other non-soccer players get accepted? Beyond that, what kind of financial aid did they receive ? Being that the graduation rate is around 65 %, over SIX years ( hard to find any published statistics on 4 years, most likely because it would be embarrassing ) ,, the selling of College scholarship dreams by the youth soccer industry can best be described as a scam. 2 from every high school might play in College. What does that mean percentage wise when Clubs are selling that you must be on a destination team by age 12 or 13 ?

Of course, youth soccer isn't the only scam out there to take your money to make you feel good about your children. But in the 20 or so years that I have been involved, the costs have gone up so much, the terrain has changed so drastically, and the fabric of the game has been comprimised greatly to fill the needs more so of the parents and adults than the children themselves.

[Unregistered]

Thought this one deserved its own thread.

Play and pay if it's your choice. Is club hockey a scam? The fact is we do not have an organized ladder system or organized (well) national youth system like other countries (eg Spain). In the end it is choice. If you don't want you kid playing club then don't. For skilled players town isn't enough. Take you time and money elsewhere. But for goodness sakes stop your whining and bitching.

[Unregistered]

Play and pay if it's your choice. Is club hockey a scam? The fact is we do not have an organized ladder system or organized (well) national youth system like other countries (eg Spain). In the end it is choice. If you don't want you kid playing club then don't. For skilled players town isn't enough. Take you time and money elsewhere. But for goodness sakes stop your whining and bitching.

And btw, if you want your kid to go to a good college, make sure they out effort in their studies. If you are relying on any sport as a gateway to university you are really delusional. Kids should play club soccer or any other competitive sport for the love of the game. People all around the world still play into their golden years for the same reason. College should be sought after based on academic merit. Have your child out the cell phones and video games down and hit the books. Other countries are eating our lunch bc they have a higher per capita rate of college graduates and advanced degrees in science fields. Globally we lag in western nations in scores for math and science yet spend the most per child. Maybe it's bc we are too pc and lazy and don't instill work ethic. So yes. Stop your bitching and go play town or stop playing and invest in a 529 and a good SAT program. Do not rely on any extra curricular to ease the path to college.

[Unregistered]

Play and pay if it's your choice. Is club hockey a scam? The fact is we do not have an organized ladder system or organized (well) national youth system like other countries (eg Spain). In the end it is choice. If you don't want you kid playing club then don't. For skilled players town isn't enough. Take you time and money elsewhere. But for goodness sakes stop your whining and bitching.

And you can be sure that the post copied and pasted and the thread starter (one in the same?) are themselves knee-deep in club soccer. Probably among the top 5% in spending for the whole youth soccer endeavor. 3 guesses for who it is.

There is nothing here that is unique to club soccer. It is all consistent with the culture of the demographic, where parents scratch and claw for "elite" pre-school admissions, fret over private vs public high schools, and will do virtually anything to crowbar their kids into a level of college to which the families feel entitled. Club soccer is merely a symptom in the much larger picture. It's certainly not the cause, and in the overall context most find it enjoyable, worthwhile and even rewarding regardless of ultimate outcome.

[Unregistered]

And you can be sure that the post copied and pasted and the thread starter (one in the same?) are themselves knee-deep in club soccer. Probably among the top 5% in spending for the whole youth soccer endeavor. 3 guesses for who it is.

There is nothing here that is unique to club soccer. It is all consistent with the culture of the demographic, where parents scratch and claw for "elite" pre-school admissions, fret over private vs public high schools, and will do virtually anything to crowbar their kids into a level of college to which the families feel entitled. Club soccer is merely a symptom in the much larger picture. It's certainly not the cause, and in the overall context most find it enjoyable, worthwhile and even rewarding regardless of ultimate outcome.

He didn't write it, but isn't his situation the exception to the rule? Let's face it, when your kid is achieving what his is, who amongst us wouldn't do what it takes to keep that train moving forward? Just because one kid like that has success though that doesn't mean that any of those observations are invalid. In fact it might just prove the case because he has pretty much done the antithesis of what the prevailing wisdom has been here on TS.

[Unregistered]

Isn't the point of the post really speaking to the complete lack of objectivity in club soccer. Anyone who has finished with club soccer recently knows that the costs have shot up significantly while the tangible rewards have remained static. It is not like the number of scholarships or spots on the national teams have increased yet we have more people than ever chasing those brass rings. At what point do the parents start to look around and realize that the chances of success are getting smaller and that it doesn't matter how much money they spend, if their child doesn't have the talent to reach the goal they are chasing they are not going to get there.

[Unregistered]

He didn't write it, but isn't his situation the exception to the rule? Let's face it, when your kid is achieving what his is, who amongst us wouldn't do what it takes to keep that train moving forward? Just because one kid like that has success though that doesn't mean that any of those observations are invalid. In fact it might just prove the case because he has pretty much done the antithesis of what the prevailing wisdom has been here on TS.

Agreed to some degree, but when one does "make it" it's probably a good policy not to lecture everyone on how they aren't making it and are getting duped, scammed and fleeced. Not to mention that "making it" and "relevancy" can mean different things to different people. And btdt, you lost me at "has pretty much done the antithesis of what the prevailing wisdom is". Could you elaborate on that? You mean in terms of total expenditures, age of starting out, playing club vs not playing club, taking advantage of ODP, using private trainers, playing up, playing District Select the week after a grueling season ends, playing for one of the most elite clubs? What have you done that would be considered even mildly off the beaten path? Obviously there is quite a bit of distortion in your brain.

Not your original post you say, but did you use it in starting this new thread?

[Unregistered]

Isn't the point of the post really speaking to the complete lack of objectivity in club soccer. Anyone who has finished with club soccer recently knows that the costs have shot up significantly while the tangible rewards have remained static. It is not like the number of scholarships or spots on the national teams have increased yet we have more people than ever chasing those brass rings. At what point do the parents start to look around and realize that the chances of success are getting smaller and that it doesn't matter how much money they spend, if their child doesn't have the talent to reach the goal they are chasing they are not going to get there.

Now we're getting back to some classic btdt dance tunes. I feel a Crusaders Navy 94/95 reference coming.

I think he would feel much better and sleep better if there was a board the rest of us all could sign affirming and admitting that we know our kids are not good enough and do not warrant the efforts we put into them. While we're at it, we can really confess and admit that our kids are "not relevant."

[Unregistered]

Agreed to some degree, but when one does "make it" it's probably a good policy not to lecture everyone on how they aren't making it and are getting duped, scammed and fleeced. Not to mention that "making it" and "relevancy" can mean different things to different people. And btdt, you lost me at "has pretty much done the antithesis of what the prevailing wisdom is". Could you elaborate on that? You mean in terms of total expenditures, age of starting out, playing club vs not playing club, taking advantage of ODP, using private trainers, playing up, playing District Select the week after a grueling season ends, playing for one of the most elite clubs? What have you done that would be considered even mildly off the beaten path? Obviously there is quite a bit of distortion in your brain.

Not your original post you say, but did you use it in starting this new thread?

Not btdt. Can we stop this incessant bashing of the guy. Given all of the changes (new leagues, club mergers, team raiding etc) of late that post seemed like an interesting point of view to discuss.

[Unregistered]

Now we're getting back to some classic btdt dance tunes. I feel a Crusaders Navy 94/95 reference coming.

I think he would feel much better and sleep better if there was a board the rest of us all could sign affirming and admitting that we know our kids are not good enough and do not warrant the efforts we put into them. While we're at it, we can really confess and admit that our kids are "not relevant."

Since you brought it up, that is a rather classic example of the lunacy that has taken over club soccer isn't it? 5 or 6 years ago that team would have been playing in either MAPLE D or MASC and they would have soundly been ripped for going to Florida for a Christmas tournament. Now they represent everyone's right to do whatever the heck they want as long as they can pay the freight.

[Unregistered]

Isn't the point of the post really speaking to the complete lack of objectivity in club soccer. Anyone who has finished with club soccer recently knows that the costs have shot up significantly while the tangible rewards have remained static. It is not like the number of scholarships or spots on the national teams have increased yet we have more people than ever chasing those brass rings. At what point do the parents start to look around and realize that the chances of success are getting smaller and that it doesn't matter how much money they spend, if their child doesn't have the talent to reach the goal they are chasing they are not going to get there.

What do you think is better if the goal is to just make a high school team and maybe college--your kid being OK and playing on a really good team, but gets unnoticed due to lower playing time and quite frankly lesser technical skills, but since she plays with better kids and will likely up her game...... OR..... playing on a worse team where she plays much more and looks better relatively? How will my money be better spent (assuming she continues to want to play and is above average in general)? She is 12, almost 13.

[Unregistered]

The Scam That is the OP

Thought this one deserved its own thread.

No, it didn't. I'll dismantle it for you. My comments in bold.

Without a doubt one may find plenty of parents that are not exactly truthful regarding the end result of their child's endeavors in soccer. The statistics show that very few actually receive any substantail scholarship money at all.

Yes, but how does that show that parents are being untruthful about anything? Most players--especially boys--don't get any athletic-based financial aid. We all know that. Let's move on.

Ironically, the majority of families involved in Club soccer, and the commitment to the ever rising cost and time invested, really don't need the financial awards at all, and then will naturally fall back on all the other good reasons that it was all worth it.

Um, there's no reason to fall back on anything, unless they were previously claiming that they were doing it to get an athletic scholarship, which few were doing.

It is now mostly about ego, bragging rights, a competitive drive to prove yuor child is better than mine.

That's your assumption. I support my kid playing club soccer because he's a good player and wants to play against other good players, and that's the place to do it. Sure, I'd like for him to make the national team, but even if by some chance he does it, your leap to the conclusion that the only reason I want for him to do that is so I can have bragging rights says much more about you than it does about me.

Youth soccer supports and expands that mindset, beginning at earlier and earlier ages as we make " progress".

Being so wrapped up in the sub culture of Youth soccer over so many years isolates and insulates many participants from actual reality.

Er, how?

Nearly 65 % of ALL incoming students to higher education receive some sort of financial aid.

Not sure how that's relevant.

Women receive more actual dollars and a higher percentage than men do.

That either.

Athletic Aid is a very smal percentage of that actual amount.

Aha! That's how you think youth soccer is insulating us from reality. Except that your conclusion is based on your assumption that everyone's participating in youth soccer because they're looking for athletic aid. Which means that all you've done so far is restate your opening assumptions (which, as noted, I reject).

When one removes themselves from the limited view as participants in youth soccer, the actual truth is revealed.

Why is there a limited view as a participant in youth soccer, as opposed to being a youth participant in youth [fill in the blank]?

A recent overview of over 30 graduates from a nearby state, that finished first in their class Academically, revealed one after another receiving " free rides" to top Colleges and Universities.

I think this is BS. First, note the absence of a citation, a strong signal that someone is making something up. Second, it doesn't make sense. Full rides exist, but they are VERY hard to find. Moreover, even if almost all of those kids got full rides, some of them would probably pass them up in order to go to higher-level schools, like Ivies, which don't give merit-based aid.

Among their biolgraphies, very very few, listed soccer as an endeavor or any significant achievements in it.

Here's a classic logical error. It's quite likely that among this sample of 30 kids, none of them played club soccer. Therefore, this study (if it exists, which I strongly doubt) tells you exactly nothing as to whether kids playing club soccer are likely to get such aid. it's a little like saying that since none of those 30 kids had a last name beginning with Z, kids whose last name begins with Z won't get full rides.

What the biographies reveal is students having spent countless hours in Academic pursuits, volunteer and social work, basically focusing on external circumstances, quite the opposite of the now soccer culture of " me, me & Me ".

Again, that's completely your assumption regarding the "soccer culture".


Of course there are those that are gifted artisticaly, but overall, you find thatthe best and brighest are well rounded, multi talented, with energies devoted to many directions. Not many involved nearly year round for most of their childhood in ONE endeavor like soccer.

Here, for perhaps the only time in this post, the poster makes a good point. Your life shouldn't be just soccer. But the assumption in the background that club soccer players are one dimensional and only want to play soccer remains unsupported.

If you have been fortunate to have had a child play 4 years of College soccer , you might have taken the time to look around at all the other students attending. Soccer players are a minority, for sure, but just how did all those other non-soccer players get accepted? Beyond that, what kind of financial aid did they receive ?

AGAIN, you are assuming that people put their kids into club soccer in order to get athletic aid. And AGAIN, that is merely an assumption, and one which I reject.

Being that the graduation rate is around 65 %, over SIX years ( hard to find any published statistics on 4 years, most likely because it would be embarrassing ) ,, the selling of College scholarship dreams by the youth soccer industry can best be described as a scam.

Notice the absence of a citation again. Also note the absence of additional details (are we talking all soccer players, or those receiving financial aid? What is the comparable graduation rate for other students similarly situated not fitting into that category. Without those details and that context, the insinuation that soccer players graduate at a lower rate is once more unfounded.

2 from every high school might play in College. What does that mean percentage wise when Clubs are selling that you must be on a destination team by age 12 or 13 ?

Nothing at all. Knowing the proportion of HS players who play in college tells you nothing about the proportion of players on a given "destination team" who play in college.

Of course, youth soccer isn't the only scam out there to take your money to make you feel good about your children.

Which means you are assuming that youth soccer is a scam out there to take my money to make me feel good about my kids. Anyway, this is new: earlier, you thought the only reasons to have your kid play club soccer were (1) the delusional hope for athletic aid and (2) the desire for bragging rights, and now you've added a third reason. But, as above, the fact that these are the only reasons you can conjure up says a lot more about you than me.

But in the 20 or so years that I have been involved, the costs have gone up so much, the terrain has changed so drastically, and the fabric of the game has been comprimised greatly to fill the needs more so of the parents and adults than the children themselves.

The increase in costs fills the needs of the parents???? Sorry, not seeing that one. As for the terrain changing dramatically and the fabric of the game being compromised, this is the kind of handwaving claptrap that blowhards spout when they don't have anything concrete to say.

[Unregistered]

Thought this one deserved its own thread.

Very interesting post. Been involved in club soccer culture for last 7 years and mine is now looking on college horizon. Most parents of players really didn't focus on college scholarships and all that jazz. It was just a bunch of above-average players who came together to play more soccer than town team and indoor leagues afforded them. No one talked about it being a gateway to college scholarships. And now, all but one is going onto the college game (and the one who isn't is going onto college lacrosse). The focus on college soccer only came into the picture 2 years ago. Are you saying that u13 parents are already grooming their kids and chasing the scholarship dream? Really, their time and money would be better spent elsewhere. If your kid is not on the top 3 teams in their age group, I can guarantee they will not get a red cent from even a middling d1 school. There's no guarantee for those second-tier players on elite team rosters either.

Best point you brought up is how little soccer matters to the college admissions/financial aid committees. Not only are there myriad athletes in other sports to fund--especially moneymakers like football and basketball---but myriad students who excel in non sports-related areas, especially (ahem) academic superstars.

[Unregistered]

Not btdt. Can we stop this incessant bashing of the guy. Given all of the changes (new leagues, club mergers, team raiding etc) of late that post seemed like an interesting point of view to discuss.

OK btdt. You're not btdt. Whoever you are please explain your assertion that btdt (I assume you mean with the younger kid) "has pretty much done the antithesis of what the prevailing wisdom is". I can't think of anyone else but him who would make that assertion because it seems so patently false on the face it, but whatever, please explain how you see this as true (in detail). And don't attack me for attacking....you, whoever you are, made the assertion and made it entirely without any provocation.

[Unregistered]

No, it didn't. I'll dismantle it for you. My comments in bold.

Without a doubt one may find plenty of parents that are not exactly truthful regarding the end result of their child's endeavors in soccer. The statistics show that very few actually receive any substantail scholarship money at all.

Yes, but how does that show that parents are being untruthful about anything? Most players--especially boys--don't get any athletic-based financial aid. We all know that. Let's move on.

Ironically, the majority of families involved in Club soccer, and the commitment to the ever rising cost and time invested, really don't need the financial awards at all, and then will naturally fall back on all the other good reasons that it was all worth it.

Um, there's no reason to fall back on anything, unless they were previously claiming that they were doing it to get an athletic scholarship, which few were doing.

It is now mostly about ego, bragging rights, a competitive drive to prove yuor child is better than mine.

That's your assumption. I support my kid playing club soccer because he's a good player and wants to play against other good players, and that's the place to do it. Sure, I'd like for him to make the national team, but even if by some chance he does it, your leap to the conclusion that the only reason I want for him to do that is so I can have bragging rights says much more about you than it does about me.

Youth soccer supports and expands that mindset, beginning at earlier and earlier ages as we make " progress".

Being so wrapped up in the sub culture of Youth soccer over so many years isolates and insulates many participants from actual reality.

Er, how?

Nearly 65 % of ALL incoming students to higher education receive some sort of financial aid.

Not sure how that's relevant.

Women receive more actual dollars and a higher percentage than men do.

That either.

Athletic Aid is a very smal percentage of that actual amount.

Aha! That's how you think youth soccer is insulating us from reality. Except that your conclusion is based on your assumption that everyone's participating in youth soccer because they're looking for athletic aid. Which means that all you've done so far is restate your opening assumptions (which, as noted, I reject).

When one removes themselves from the limited view as participants in youth soccer, the actual truth is revealed.

Why is there a limited view as a participant in youth soccer, as opposed to being a youth participant in youth [fill in the blank]?

A recent overview of over 30 graduates from a nearby state, that finished first in their class Academically, revealed one after another receiving " free rides" to top Colleges and Universities.

I think this is BS. First, note the absence of a citation, a strong signal that someone is making something up. Second, it doesn't make sense. Full rides exist, but they are VERY hard to find. Moreover, even if almost all of those kids got full rides, some of them would probably pass them up in order to go to higher-level schools, like Ivies, which don't give merit-based aid.

Among their biolgraphies, very very few, listed soccer as an endeavor or any significant achievements in it.

Here's a classic logical error. It's quite likely that among this sample of 30 kids, none of them played club soccer. Therefore, this study (if it exists, which I strongly doubt) tells you exactly nothing as to whether kids playing club soccer are likely to get such aid. it's a little like saying that since none of those 30 kids had a last name beginning with Z, kids whose last name begins with Z won't get full rides.

What the biographies reveal is students having spent countless hours in Academic pursuits, volunteer and social work, basically focusing on external circumstances, quite the opposite of the now soccer culture of " me, me & Me ".

Again, that's completely your assumption regarding the "soccer culture".


Of course there are those that are gifted artisticaly, but overall, you find thatthe best and brighest are well rounded, multi talented, with energies devoted to many directions. Not many involved nearly year round for most of their childhood in ONE endeavor like soccer.

Here, for perhaps the only time in this post, the poster makes a good point. Your life shouldn't be just soccer. But the assumption in the background that club soccer players are one dimensional and only want to play soccer remains unsupported.

If you have been fortunate to have had a child play 4 years of College soccer , you might have taken the time to look around at all the other students attending. Soccer players are a minority, for sure, but just how did all those other non-soccer players get accepted? Beyond that, what kind of financial aid did they receive ?

AGAIN, you are assuming that people put their kids into club soccer in order to get athletic aid. And AGAIN, that is merely an assumption, and one which I reject.

Being that the graduation rate is around 65 %, over SIX years ( hard to find any published statistics on 4 years, most likely because it would be embarrassing ) ,, the selling of College scholarship dreams by the youth soccer industry can best be described as a scam.

Notice the absence of a citation again. Also note the absence of additional details (are we talking all soccer players, or those receiving financial aid? What is the comparable graduation rate for other students similarly situated not fitting into that category. Without those details and that context, the insinuation that soccer players graduate at a lower rate is once more unfounded.

2 from every high school might play in College. What does that mean percentage wise when Clubs are selling that you must be on a destination team by age 12 or 13 ?

Nothing at all. Knowing the proportion of HS players who play in college tells you nothing about the proportion of players on a given "destination team" who play in college.

Of course, youth soccer isn't the only scam out there to take your money to make you feel good about your children.

Which means you are assuming that youth soccer is a scam out there to take my money to make me feel good about my kids. Anyway, this is new: earlier, you thought the only reasons to have your kid play club soccer were (1) the delusional hope for athletic aid and (2) the desire for bragging rights, and now you've added a third reason. But, as above, the fact that these are the only reasons you can conjure up says a lot more about you than me.

But in the 20 or so years that I have been involved, the costs have gone up so much, the terrain has changed so drastically, and the fabric of the game has been comprimised greatly to fill the needs more so of the parents and adults than the children themselves.

The increase in costs fills the needs of the parents???? Sorry, not seeing that one. As for the terrain changing dramatically and the fabric of the game being compromised, this is the kind of handwaving claptrap that blowhards spout when they don't have anything concrete to say.

This post was very well done. Thanks for the step-by-step dismantling. One of the favorite tactics by some on TS is to make a bunch of assertions as taken-for-granted facts and then attack based on those assertions. Because the assertions seem like they contain some very vague ring of truth most will read and just accept those types as posts as is. You didn't and your post is right on the mark. We might actually advance some discussions if those complaining about discussions being thwarted would contribute with honest analysis instead of very clearly agenda-based propaganda.