Elite Clubs National League [My $0.02]
What if we as a family just simply enjoy the experience? My daughter loves every second of competing with and against some of the best in the country in the sport that she has come to love. Throw in the added benefit of being able to travel to places she wouldn't normally and compete in some really exciting games and showcases, lined with college coaches that might want her to play for them and that makes me a fan of the program. Of course a similar experience can be had outside of ECNL but we have decided that the cost is the same for other premier teams in our area and we prefer the professionalism of the league and events they put on and do consider it to be the top level. It's where she wants to compete and where we like to watch her compete. I also like that it promotes young female athletes and provides them, in my opinion, the best experience for girls in American youth sports typically focused on boys/men. Am I doing it as an investment for a future college scholarship? Absolutely not. Money would be better spent in a college savings account if that is the goal. We do it for the enjoyment, life experience, family bonding, spending time with friends (adults and kids)...etc. College scholarship, if it happened, would just be icing ...and am I worried about whether ECNL is raising the level of soccer in America or not? Not really. I'm living in the moment with my daughter and my family and enjoying every minute of it. The point is there are many who never even get the chance to show their level of qualifications in games and practices, because they didn't have the advantages to get them to the door in the first place. Do you really think ECNL is open to just everyone?
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- Well, ECNL is open to all who can afford the costs.
- No need to compare those on a roster fighting for playing time with players not in the pool because of lack of resources.
- There were and will continue to be parents who choose a college based on foolish reasons; a favorite football team, mascot, Grandpa's alumni, pretty campus, or strong soccer program. A youth athletic league (ECNL or otherwise) isn't to blame.
- Your broad generalization of ECNL causing kids to be at colleges that are above their academic level just doesn't apply to ECNL anymore than any other college bound athlete of any scholarship sport.
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Holy AI batmanComment
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The teams in my daughter's age group regularly use ECNL players during the regular season, and I assume they probably use them in State Cup too. Sounds like at least a few other teams used ECNL players in State Cup as well (don't recall them doing so in Athena A games).Originally posted by Guest View Post
Personally coming from a suburban soccer team, the vast majority of parents placed priority on selecting the right school academically, and socially for their recruited player. Every kid on the team had D1 scholarship opportunity, most of the schools the players headed off to were not the highest ranked soccer program that had recruited them. The families selected what they felt would be the best overall fit for the kid.
Sure you're going to see parents pick a college that wasn't a good fit, because of the brand name of the academics or of the athletic program. You'll see that happen with kids from all sports, and in youth soccer, it was just as common before ECNL.
As for motivation, there are some parents who are the driving force behind their kid. You'll see it in all sports, academics and in extracurriculars like orchestra, drama, cheerleading, etc. The parents want that over achiever! Again, this is applicable to parents and kids WAY beyond just youth soccer.
I don't have a problem with this - regular season or state cup - if teams are doing so to supplement player development - maybe give some kids who don't get as much time on their ECNL teams some more opportunities to play. I do disagree with this practice if clubs are bringing their top ECNL players/the stars down just to try to win Athena A or win a tournament.Comment
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What is artificial about that intelligence? If you read the post above, bringing those ECNL players made all the difference. Unless its for injuries, they should never bring those players down. Those ECNL players should sit on the bench and not play unless theres no other subs. They didn't earn their spot on the top, they don't deserve to take playtime away from anyone. Even if you do get to your dream school, you'll be riding the bench and get lousy grades. Instead, play for your local unheralded club, go to a college that doesn't challenge you and pay through the nose for the privilege. Your GPA from that unheralded college better be amazing, because you need to beat out that kid from Stanford with the mediocre GPA for grad school and/or jobs. But should you somehow, someway, find some joy in seeing your kid play at the highest club level, and then be admitted to a school they might not normally have access to, and your kid falters in any way socially, academically, or athletically, Eddie K will be there to say "I told you so!" Just busting your chops, M*******. You deserve it for your obvious school envy in that Vandy girl interview. I hope you hired a terrible, ineffective coach with a 4.3 grade point average.Originally posted by Guest View PostComment
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What the hell is Athena A and who said anything about greater good of the national team? I guess you're good with paying all this money to travel across the country and then lose 0-10 in the opening match of playoffs - cause that is what happens when we dilute the talent pool in the area with too many ECNL/GA teams. If a student can carry a 3.8 unweighted GPA with hard classes and some APs, than for less than the costs of one ECNL season it is almost guaranteed a student like this could get a 95%tile plus with some private kaplan/baron's courses/tutoring and buying the practice booklet of actual tests for <100$.
1. I'd encourage any parent to look at published data on web pages (if the club publishes it) where the players go to college. Maybe my state is an anomaly but when I looked at the "top" club for another rich sport (Vball) for older DD surprised to see for a typical class, 1 player at good academic/athletic state flagship and 1 player at top private school - rest of the team at schools my kids wouldn't ever apply to. For the ECNL soccer club basically the same results . Do your own research and see what is the likelihood for any team that an average participant will end up at a top public or private school.
2. the US is one of the only nations that combines high level athletics with University. I think US girls club soccer is an interesting experiment to see if athletic genes positively segregate with income since the parents are funding it all and it's a pretty white rich sport in the US. The US has had a huge numbers advantage in girls soccer and headstart for title 9 (until the 70s was illegal to have women's soccer in Brazil and Germany). So it will be interesting to see if more merit based systems (e.g. Germany and France) eventually catch and pass the US, which has had huge numbers advantage.
it's surprisingly difficult to see where some of these kids are going to college from the clubs' websites but very few go to schools that would be commensurate with the "likely" household incomes of their parents, particularly since test scores correlate with income.Comment
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Don't be so sure of that notion. The argument that I can agree with is that GA and ECNL will be delivering different products, so some will choose ECNL and some will choose GA. Which one is best for your kid is in the eyes of the consumer, but unless a slew of RL girls start packing GA rosters not sure where this superiority complex is coming from and Massachusetts may have beef with you with SSS and NEFC, but otherwise you may be right in saying between CT and SC there are no serious teams arguing that ECNL isn't the best way to go IF your kid wants to play soccer in college regardless of where.Originally posted by Guest View Post
Just saying that if your kid is a good academic performer and would get into a top 10 academic public school (UNC , Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA , UVA) on only their own academic merits, the chances of them doing better than that through playing ECNL are <5% based on the numbers. The chances of them ending up at a worse academic school just to play soccer are >95%. (this is not even contemplating what would happen if those $$ were used for SAT/ACT test prep and private tutors instead honey.
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Honey Dew is better than Dunkin. It’s a sexy dream you sell and if you look at this commit list there are typically 1-2 students a year that end up better than going to either UNC chapel hill or NC state. Granted, NC may be "better" for students than CA, since it's much less competitive in state (~50% of in state applicants get into UNC and ~70% into NC state; much more competitive for out of state thus the national "reputation"; the opposite of CA which is now using out of state tuition applicants to help cover costs and has higher admit rate for Berkeley than in state residents).
Here, we don't need to argue past each other - their is no comparison to playing in college and ECNL - I'm just saying parents should look at WHERE the kids go to college. I'm sure for coaches at second tier academic schools or expensive D3s where typically 10% of the student body is on varsity, it makes it easier on the coaches knowing some of these kids will be glad to go to Middle XXX State, or their parents can pay full cost of attendance at a D3.
It's the background of demographics of a rich white sport that makes it peculiar. Who would have thought inner city kids playing low cost/free sports without parental travel (football/basketball) made more logical sense of hoping to go pro than national girls soccer leagues. ECNL is not some scholarship league taking the poorest members of society and scouting them in inner city housing projects and paying for them to play soccer as a way to go to college, it's relatively rich parents using assets to play. And since rich parents have kids with better test scores and likely better high schools I can't imagine a lot of those parents are thrilled when their kids go to 2nd and 3rd tier academic schools.Comment
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AI? Nope. So if anyone who reads his can go find their closest ECNL commitment lists and see for themselves if those are schools they want their kids to go to. Why do you think UCLA, Stanford, Duke get their choice of players - the academic product. For a short while Duke was getting higher rated recruits than UNC due to the academic product.Comment
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Where the beef?Comment
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A lot of kids in our area try to get into the local ECNL club and I know there are a LOT of politics involved with this. I looked at the club and while there are some recruited players, they are mostly going to D3 and sometimes lesser known D1 colleges. The parents of older kids also mentioned that the time commitment is pretty huge and you also need to fly around the country.
I don't want to ask them this question straight out, b/c they are neighbors / friends and they are really into this. But, what's the point of all this? The chance of any of these kids making the national team is non-existent. Playing college on a scholarship - sure. But is putting so much money and time into a single sport worth that chance? A lot of the colleges I saw the local ECNL club's kids going to are not "premier" colleges by any means, if you want to get a job afterwards.
If it's girls also, there is literally no club scene to even make much money. So what's the hook here? Just for the love of the game? My daughter plays competitive soccer and wants to tryout for this club, but I don't see the point. The time commitment just doesn't seem to be worth it.. I'd rather she plays on a lower division and have fun, and save the time for studying, and other activities.
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No clue *** anthena is, but they rest is absolutely true. It does feel a bit scammy. I've played the "prestige" game myself in the corporate world (outside of soccer) and I know the signs well. I see that in club soccer scene whenever I talk to my friends with kids in this club. It's like a cult getting in, but if you take a step back, it's so much time commitment and the club is not even ranked that well within the REGIONAL ECNL rankings, nevermind at state of national level. My daughter is very interested in it b/c of a couple of friends in the club, but I just can't see the value of it.Originally posted by Guest View PostComment
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What's the end goal of any of it? To try and become the best at this thing that you're doing. Most kids playing football, basketball, etc. aren't going to top programs and almost none of them are going to have a job in the sport, player or coach. They still play through high level youth leagues.
It's a bad investment if someone is looking for a college scholarship because you likely spend more money on the training than the scholarship might be worth. But it is a hook for admissions, if you need it.
Some kids just want to be the best that they can be and they think that they're on their way to being that by playing better competition.
If a post-high school payoff is the goal then, yeah, there's not a lot of payoff. But if it's about fun of the journey then that is the payoff.
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I was one of the “lucky” ones and made it onto a D1 roster at a mid-major program, and ended up riding the bench for four years - I have a total of seven whopping real-game minutes to show :) there were some earlier comments about how only half the kids that start college make it all 4/5 years without quitting, that was definitely the case for my class - only 6/13 of us graduated after playing 4 seasons. I also basically did nothing else in college besides soccer and my degree (except senior spring, that was a good time :D).
Was it worth it? Yes, absolutely, I would do it all again in a heartbeat, but only because of two things:
First- As you get older and better, the ratio of time spent on “things that suck” to “things that are fun” starts to shift tremendously. In high school or even club you may go to practice and spend 60-90 minutes playing small sided/generally doing “fun soccer things.” By college you are spending 3-4 hours of “things that suck” for every hour of practice. For example a typical weekday would be 30min film (not fun), 60min practice (fun), 30 min fitness (definitely not fun), 30-45min weight room (not fun). Then mandatory study hours, physical therapy/recovery for some, etc. I made it because I loved playing/competing with other skilled people so much that all that was worth it just to practice 60 hard minutes every day. And you may do all that to never see the field in a live match. But there is basically no environment that you will ever be able to do this in again post college, unless you happen to go pro.
Second- the teammates. Most programs have their players room together. My college roommate (we roomed for all four years) and I are best friends, and for those four years I think we honestly spent 80% of our time doing the same things lol. He and I could uniquely understand the stress and experience of trying to perform on the field but also passing your exams, etc. You will not find many environments where everyone is living and working together towards a difficult shared goal, and that leads to lifelong friendships and formative experiences.
I should note that I was fortunate that my parents were able to invest time and money to give me the opportunity to do this and while I did receive academic money to go to school I did not receive an athletic scholarship, and my parents were able to handle the cost of college as well. This was definitely a massive negative ROI investment financially. In summary, though, I think if you are in the position to give your daughter a chance at this experience and she does actually love the game that much then the life lessons and experiences can be worth it. This is also before factoring in whether your daughter can/will be good enough to make a college team - but realistically if she’s not playing ECNL or GA the odds start to go down a lot.
It’s the top women’s league for young adults in the US. Unfortunately, it’s expensive because of travel costs. To some extent you can avoid going on the trips, but not entirely. But, you can’t get around the fact that it’s the top of the heap for girls/women through u18.
Must you play on an ECNL team to play in college? No. But, your options dwindle quickly. And, you will need to be doing a lot of outside training, plus whatever is going on with the team you are playing with, in order to be and stay competitive. Mind you, most ECNL players looking to play in college also do outside training too.
It is very difficult to get good training when you are not getting decent coaching, AND working with/against teammates and opposing players who are also very good. Take the best player on a lower level team and put them on the top team in any sport. Are they still a good player? At 10,11,12 it’s no problem adapting. At 15/16/17 it’s a huge issue. It’s a lot of years of lesser training and lesser competition to try and make up. It’s not like the kids playing on the top team quit working hard so your kid has time to catch up.
Should your kid play ECNL? Hard to say of course. The big thing first is can your family afford the time and costs involved. It’s part of growing up. Serious discussions need to be had, that include your kid, and consider what is going on with your other kids. It’s not worth trying out if you realistically can’t afford the cost. There are obviously alternatives, though, also obviously, they are “lesser” to some degree.
If the talent and ability is there, and before saying I can’t afford it; do consider what you can realistically afford, and give the club a call. They may have some options. It’s worth the call anyway. But, you have to be up front with your kid about what is workable for your family. You do not have to play ECNL to play on your high school team.
Why did the ECNL develop at all? Simple. Discrimination against women and girls by US Soccer. US Soccer wanted to improve boys’ training because the US men’s team sucked. So they started a youth league called the Development Academy. But, they made it “boys only”. Yes it I was obviously discriminatory. So, the USSF lied. The girls will be added “next year”. (It’s one of my big legal regrets that I didn’t organize an appropriate class action at the time.) The immediate and big issue for all the Development Academy clubs, with the exception of those directly tied to MLS teams, is that they all had girls sides. The boys get DA and girls get ???? It was an immediately untenable situation for the clubs. So - they duplicated the DA, without USSF involvement, by starting the ECNL.Comment
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Both of my sons play U13 club soccer. They are both 2nd team (ECRL). Same crazy schedules for practice and games as ECNL.Originally posted by Guest View Post
First, we ask our boys every year if they want to play club soccer again. If one of them chooses to say NO, then there will be no pushback from us. They do it because they love it.
Money: Yes it is expensive and I know clubs, especially the larger ones, find ways to make as much money as possible. Just like ANY OTHER BUSINESS. End of the day, I feel what we pay is worth it. Professional, certified coaches that the kids are with for almost an entire year! Try paying for lessons from one of these coaches for a full year and you will realize that it is actually a good deal. It is not easy for the clubs to recruiter these coaches and keep these coaches. They are getting more and more expensive.
We have witnessed the pros and cons. The pros far outweigh the cons:
Pros:- brotherlike bonds with kids who are outside of their school network.
- important life lessons including: Hard work pays off, good fitness habits, respect for authority, acceptance when things do not always turn out the way you would like them to, controlling oneself in high pressure moments, working through heated disagreements, learning what it feels like to not make a team, learning what it feels like to make a team, learning what it feels like to get moved down from a team and much much more. Yes, these can be learned in other activities but mine have learned them in club soccer and their character is better for it.
- keeps the away from screens and away from the "bad crowd". They simply have less time to get in trouble and are surround by kids who also have less time to get in trouble. Health and education are required to perform well. The incentives are there to be their best selves.
- network - they know more people from other schools and it will make it better for them when they go to high school with a network of soccer players that are from different middle schools. It takes them our of their bubble and they build close relationships from a more diverse crowd than they would have been exposed to.
- Health - our doctors are always amazed at how in shape our boys are.
- unique to soccer is being involved in a sport that is truly global. my kids know more about other countries because of their interest in soccer than most of their non soccer playing friends.
- much more... I think the benefits are pretty obvious.
- time together as a family. we treat those weekend tournaments and travelling as mini family vacations. we are all together in a car, in a new city and in a hotel room multiple times a year. the bonding is priceless. I spend more time with my kids than my parents ever spent with us as a family and my parents were not neglectful.
Cons:- it is expensive but we find great value in it. however, if you are not at least middle class this is a major con. some clubs do offer financial support but that is rare.
- free time - no polishing this tird... Until summer, there is not much free time.
- potential negative impacts on education - some parents view soccer as top priority instead of school. We do not teach our kids this and luckily , our club is the same way. the kids have to have good grades to be on the top 2 teams.
- if you do not ask your kids, every year, if they really want to commit, you are an ******* and will damage your kids.
- many more i am sure.
- no time to play other sports. this is unfortunate and seems to be true in all sports these days. If you want to play a sport in high school anymore, you have to specialize as you grow up, in that sport. this sucks for everyone.
End of the day, this is a choice we made as a family, that we believe benefits our kids. We are not delusional in thinking that they will go pro. Only the kids recruited out of ECNL to an academy even have a small chance. However, the kids are exposed to those recruiters and to college scouts as they get older. If they really want it, they could earn their spot on a college team. Maybe not D1 but something that allows them to continue in their sport while getting a good education. The time we spend together as a family is treasured and we will not regret one minute of it! Even at 13 and 11 our kids thank us for the time we spend with them and the effort we put it in to allow them to play in this club.
We all have choices!
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