ECNL wants to switch back to school year from birth year

[Guest]

lol Mallory Swanson is April 29. Girma is in June. You people are a joke!

It was meant as sarcasm for all the posters who think not having a late birthday automatically relegates their kids to the B team.

[Guest]

It was meant as sarcasm for all the posters who think having a late birthday automatically relegates their kids to the B team.

Edited.

[Guest]

I have no dog in this fight but birth year seems be the most fair way to do this as it controls for parents holding kids back to give them an advantage. You play kids the same age. Pretty simple. Yes, kids in Jan have an advantage over Dec but no matter where you draw a line, someone will be older/younger.

The trapped 8th grade thing really doesn't appear to be a massive issue. Most 8th graders will still train from Sept to Nov then just pick up full steam once hs season ends.

[Guest]

The trapped 8th grade thing really doesn't appear to be a massive issue. Most 8th graders will still train from Sept to Nov then just pick up full steam once hs season ends.

Convenient how you ignored multiple posters including one today talking about the negative effects his daughter is experiencing based off of it. Guess because it's not your kid who gives a F and makes it a not real issue to you.

I think the from a USSF perspective the only argument they will care about is the lack of q4 kids playing in the u-little age because they can't play with their friends and classmates. They want to grow The game.

The 8th grade issue is just a regional issue. The college recruiting argument is relevant to the club soccer world, and this board but only 1% of kids playing soccer actually play in college means it won't sway USSF.

I could see a situation where ECNL and maybe GA make a change on their own for the 8th-12th grade years, but they will still probably need USSF blessing.

[Guest]

I have no dog in this fight but birth year seems be the most fair way to do this as it controls for parents holding kids back to give them an advantage. You play kids the same age. Pretty simple. Yes, kids in Jan have an advantage over Dec but no matter where you draw a line, someone will be older/younger.

The trapped 8th grade thing really doesn't appear to be a massive issue. Most 8th graders will still train from Sept to Nov then just pick up full steam once hs season ends.

Hey, why don’t your daughter take March-May off this coming spring? Go on… walk the talk.

[Guest]

Hey, why don’t your daughter take March-May off this coming spring? Go on… walk the talk.

you equate finding alternate ways to work out for 2 months with taking 3 months off in the heart of club season. not realistic.

your kid will take your lead in this. show her some resilience and initiative.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Guest;n4664447]

Convenient how you ignored multiple posters including one today talking about the negative effects his daughter is experiencing based off of it. Guess because it's not your kid who gives a F and makes it a not real issue to you.



The negative side effects listed this morning are amplified through that posters perspective, at times to the point of absurdity. Talking about losing muscle mass? C’mon, that is nuts. It’s not like the child is bed ridden watching through the hospital window while her 9th grade former-friends play on the field just outside her window, sad music playing in the background, while her muscles atrophy.

Same guy complains about teammates playing with older better kids while stomping his foot for his daughter to get put permanently on the team with younger worse kids. Perhaps he should acknowledge that compared to all the other 8th graders, she is reaping the benefits of playing with older better kids for the past 5 years, and will resume doing so in a couple months. Her teammates will come back beaten and bruised from playing 5 days a week with an 18 year old hockey player who has been kicking her shins for the past 2 months.

[Guest]

Convenient how you ignored multiple posters including one today talking about the negative effects his daughter is experiencing based off of it. Guess because it's not your kid who gives a F and makes it a not real issue to you.

I think the from a USSF perspective the only argument they will care about is the lack of q4 kids playing in the u-little age because they can't play with their friends and classmates. They want to grow The game.

The 8th grade issue is just a regional issue. The college recruiting argument is relevant to the club soccer world, and this board but only 1% of kids playing soccer actually play in college means it won't sway USSF.

I could see a situation where ECNL and maybe GA make a change on their own for the 8th-12th grade years, but they will still probably need USSF blessing.

Following this thread, it looks like the debate is settled that a birthday cutoff aligning with school year is superior to birth year. The only real remaining debate seems to be whether the problems fixed by a change back are big enough to warrant the one-time headache of the reshuffle.

Taken at ECNL's word, they would choose school year aligned cutoffs if it was up to them, and it's worth the one-time headache. Presumably, GA and other leagues would choose the same for the same reasons. Likely, the sticking point would be convincing USSF. USSF now has data to see that the change to birth year likely contributed to decreasing participation rates in youth soccer and a worsened RAE profile (which also looks worse than other countries). The question for them would be whether they believe their talent ID process for youth national teams (having travel teams arranged for international play, even if they never play internationally, was supposed to help scouting for national teams) became enough better to accept a lower participation rate and worse RAE.

To throw in my own middle-school-aged Q4 kid anecdote... Am I particularly worried about the trapped 8th grade season coming up in a couple years? Not really. Because I live in an affluent suburb, so my kid knows a few other trapped players from other clubs who will be wiling to spend an extra $2000 each to do private small group training that season. So if USSF is happy keeping it a rich-kid sport, I guess the current system is helping with that. She's also fortunate to be at a big ECNL club that will likely allow them to practice with the group behind. Although then I have to hear some complaints after practice that too many of the girls behind aren't very good. I've watched when she practices with them, and it is a big step down. Her team practiced once per week last season with the team behind them. She's only a middle-tier player in her birth year group, often looks like she's barely keeping up, so in mixed practices she often was put in the group that played with the younger girls. But when playing with the group behind there's maybe 1-2 girls who can challenge her (one star player much better than her, second best about the same, both - shocker - Jan birthdays, then a drop off). It's pretty amazing to watch her go from middle/bottom of one group to playing with a bunch of the "best" girls from her same school class year and looking faster than them, more skilled, hardest kicker, best receiving touches, by far best juggler in warmup, more intense, winning every 50/50, and other girls look scared in scrimmages. It serves as a good reminder to her to hang in there, as that ~10 month age advantage her normal teammates have over her is huge. And that age advantage will get smaller every year.

[Guest]

This was sarcasm but lets set this straight for people who believe this statement to be true:
Murphy 4/96
Naeher 4/88
Davidson 9/98
Fox 7/98
Girma 6/00
Krueger 8/90
Nighswonger 11/00
Sonnet 11/93
Albert 10/03
Coffey 12/98
Horan 5/94
Lavelle 5/95
Dunn 7/92
Rodman 5/02
Shaw 11/04
Smith 8/00
Swanson 4/98
Williams 5/93

Change to By was in 2017. Of the 3 players on the team who played the majority of their club soccer under BY, 2 would have been trapped Albert and Shaw.
Of the older players who were under GY for all or most of their club career, 8 were born late in the year, May thru August.

I'll assume you got these correct because I am not going to check on my own, but it is interesting that, not only is there not a single January birthday, but not a single birthday in the first quarter of the year.

[Guest]

I have no dog in this fight but birth year seems be the most fair way to do this as it controls for parents holding kids back to give them an advantage. You play kids the same age. Pretty simple. Yes, kids in Jan have an advantage over Dec but no matter where you draw a line, someone will be older/younger.

The trapped 8th grade thing really doesn't appear to be a massive issue. Most 8th graders will still train from Sept to Nov then just pick up full steam once hs season ends.

Nobody is calling it a massive issue. It's a small issue, but significant for a small proportion of players. Moving back to Aug 1 cutoff solves the small issue without creating any more significant issues, whereas there is really no compelling reason for using BY now that GDA is gone.

[Guest]

The clubs must love having to waste so much conversation and energy on this self made issue. Fix it!

[Guest]

Nobody is calling it a massive issue. It's a small issue, but significant for a small proportion of players. Moving back to Aug 1 cutoff solves the small issue without creating any more significant issues, whereas there is really no compelling reason for using BY now that GDA is gone.

1/3 of players in MA are impacted.

[Guest]

1/3 of players in MA are impacted.

Right, and 1/3 of MA players probably make up less than 1% of ECNL players.

[Guest]

Following this thread, it looks like the debate is settled that a birthday cutoff aligning with school year is superior to birth year. The only real remaining debate seems to be whether the problems fixed by a change back are big enough to warrant the one-time headache of the reshuffle.

Taken at ECNL's word, they would choose school year aligned cutoffs if it was up to them, and it's worth the one-time headache. Presumably, GA and other leagues would choose the same for the same reasons. Likely, the sticking point would be convincing USSF. USSF now has data to see that the change to birth year likely contributed to decreasing participation rates in youth soccer and a worsened RAE profile (which also looks worse than other countries). The question for them would be whether they believe their talent ID process for youth national teams (having travel teams arranged for international play, even if they never play internationally, was supposed to help scouting for national teams) became enough better to accept a lower participation rate and worse RAE.

To throw in my own middle-school-aged Q4 kid anecdote... Am I particularly worried about the trapped 8th grade season coming up in a couple years? Not really. Because I live in an affluent suburb, so my kid knows a few other trapped players from other clubs who will be wiling to spend an extra $2000 each to do private small group training that season. So if USSF is happy keeping it a rich-kid sport, I guess the current system is helping with that. She's also fortunate to be at a big ECNL club that will likely allow them to practice with the group behind. Although then I have to hear some complaints after practice that too many of the girls behind aren't very good. I've watched when she practices with them, and it is a big step down. Her team practiced once per week last season with the team behind them. She's only a middle-tier player in her birth year group, often looks like she's barely keeping up, so in mixed practices she often was put in the group that played with the younger girls. But when playing with the group behind there's maybe 1-2 girls who can challenge her (one star player much better than her, second best about the same, both - shocker - Jan birthdays, then a drop off). It's pretty amazing to watch her go from middle/bottom of one group to playing with a bunch of the "best" girls from her same school class year and looking faster than them, more skilled, hardest kicker, best receiving touches, by far best juggler in warmup, more intense, winning every 50/50, and other girls look scared in scrimmages. It serves as a good reminder to her to hang in there, as that ~10 month age advantage her normal teammates have over her is huge. And that age advantage will get smaller every year.

I’m not sure your conclusion is correct but rather picking and choosing the facts you want to be true. End of the day it’s not changing so move along

[Guest]

I’m not sure your conclusion is correct but rather picking and choosing the facts you want to be true. End of the day it’s not changing so move along

Oh yes it is. Stayed tuned.