ECNL wants to switch back to school year from birth year

[Guest]

Private school players do reclass, and are often advised to reclass, saying that it doesn't happen won't make it true.

History is clear - if there is an advantage to be had, people will take advantage of a system. Grad year ignoring age will encourage many players to reclass.

[Guest]

As it has been mentioned repeatedly grad year is what the coaches want because even a cutoff can still leave teams straddling different grades. Coaches don’t care if a kid has reclassed and is older they just want to know who is a sophomore and who is a junior to fill their rosters. The pearl clutching and knicker twisting over redshirting which almost never happens in girls athletics is crazy. They are not going to abandon the easiest way to obtain their goal because very occasionally a team will have a kid who is a year older. Those kids will probably play up anyway. Holy cow.

You are assuming all things will stay as they are. In the real world, when circumstances change, results change. Every good decision brings along unintended consequences. It is good strategy to think about and plan for those consequences. It is now more beneficial to reclass so the occurrence may increase. Taking away that incentive is the smart play.

[Guest]

This thread conflates Birth Year, Grade Reclassification, and Relative Age Effect. I know that most know they aren't the same thing, but some comments are mixing them up:
RAE is when the "older" kids in the window, who are more developmentally advantaged early, get tracked resulting in more hours playing at a higher level.
Grade Year, which is what US Soccer was before 2017, groups players similarly to how public schools assign grades (9/1 - 8/31). Levels were known as u13, u14, etc.. Players can play up, but not down
Birth Year, which what we have now, groups players similar to how YNT and Rest of World do, (1/1 - 12/31). Levels are known by Year of Birth 2008s, 2009s etc. Players can play up, but not down.
Grad Year, which US Club Lacrosse uses, groups players by current HS grade level regardless of actual age. Levels are known by expected year of graduation 2025, 2026 etc. Players can play down when they repeat a grade.
Reclassification - When a player repeats a grade during the recruiting years and changes their expected date of graduation.


Assuming we agree on the definitions we can make following statements.
1. There is no best window for mitigating RAE. Someone is always an older/younger

2. Birth Year splits players across recruiting classes and results in Trapped player situations.
- OpEd: I see no evidence that the trapped situations are holistically good or bad. Personal anecdotes abound, but soccer life/recruiting has continued for 7 years.

3. Grade Year mitigates trapped player and aligns majority with their grade
- OpEd: This seems best, and we should go back, but it's not why anyone wasn't recruited or quit soccer

4. A shift to Grade Year is not a shift to Grad Year and to my knowledge there has been no talk of reclassification.
In soccer's "old" grade year model a held-back player still had to play with their age-appropriate group. A held-back 2nd grader still played with the 3rd graders, and son on, through 11th grade.
The u19 bracket is still called that because it existed to catch the 18+ players that had been held back.

If understand this wrong, please let me know, but I have not heard that reclassification is on the table in a return to Grade Year.

[Guest]

This thread conflates Birth Year, Grade Reclassification, and Relative Age Effect. I know that most know they aren't the same thing, but some comments are mixing them up:
RAE is when the "older" kids in the window, who are more developmentally advantaged early, get tracked resulting in more hours playing at a higher level.
Grade Year, which is what US Soccer was before 2017, groups players similarly to how public schools assign grades (9/1 - 8/31). Levels were known as u13, u14, etc.. Players can play up, but not down
Birth Year, which what we have now, groups players similar to how YNT and Rest of World do, (1/1 - 12/31). Levels are known by Year of Birth 2008s, 2009s etc. Players can play up, but not down.
Grad Year, which US Club Lacrosse uses, groups players by current HS grade level regardless of actual age. Levels are known by expected year of graduation 2025, 2026 etc. Players can play down when they repeat a grade.
Reclassification - When a player repeats a grade during the recruiting years and changes their expected date of graduation.


Assuming we agree on the definitions we can make following statements.
1. There is no best window for mitigating RAE. Someone is always an older/younger

2. Birth Year splits players across recruiting classes and results in Trapped player situations.
- OpEd: I see no evidence that the trapped situations are holistically good or bad. Personal anecdotes abound, but soccer life/recruiting has continued for 7 years.

3. Grade Year mitigates trapped player and aligns majority with their grade
- OpEd: This seems best, and we should go back, but it's not why anyone wasn't recruited or quit soccer

4. A shift to Grade Year is not a shift to Grad Year and to my knowledge there has been no talk of reclassification.
In soccer's "old" grade year model a held-back player still had to play with their age-appropriate group. A held-back 2nd grader still played with the 3rd graders, and son on, through 11th grade.
The u19 bracket is still called that because it existed to catch the 18+ players that had been held back.

If understand this wrong, please let me know, but I have not heard that reclassification is on the table in a return to Grade Year.

even in LAX Graduation year, there is still an age cutoff using a 15 month window, so June/July/Aug can play with their grad year even if they are on the older side.

[Guest]

Private school players do reclass, and are often advised to reclass, saying that it doesn't happen won't make it true.

History is clear - if there is an advantage to be had, people will take advantage of a system. Grad year ignoring age will encourage many players to reclass.

Reclassifying is only a prep school thing. The number of female soccer players who reclassify and then turn out to be a highly sought after recruit is minuscule. Since the greatest concentration of prep school exists in the Northeast, it is more visible but still tiny compared to the number of trapped players.

[Guest]

Reclassifying is basically a form of cheating for the rich. Reminds me of parents like Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman. Go ahead, reclass, whatever entitled thing you need to do. Raise weak brats with no grit. Those are the same kids who end up in fancy rehabs later. Parents trying to buy their kids futures without making them work for it or face adversity, Could care less if you want to cheat. You can’t buy talent and hard work mommy.

I hope they go by grade. It will give the majority of kids an opportunity to compete and been seen during high school. Equity is important.

[Guest]

Reclassifying is only a prep school thing. The number of female soccer players who reclassify and then turn out to be a highly sought after recruit is minuscule. Since the greatest concentration of prep school exists in the Northeast, it is more visible but still tiny compared to the number of trapped players.

Ok. But it still makes sense to close the loop hole. Take care of the trap players and disincentivize the reclassers at the same time. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

[Guest]

Reclassifying is basically a form of cheating for the rich. Reminds me of parents like Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman. Go ahead, reclass, whatever entitled thing you need to do. Raise weak brats with no grit. Those are the same kids who end up in fancy rehabs later. Parents trying to buy their kids futures without making them work for it or face adversity, Could care less if you want to cheat. You can’t buy talent and hard work mommy.

I hope they go by grade. It will give the majority of kids an opportunity to compete and been seen during high school. Equity is important.

You’re not going to find equity in US Soccer any time soon. Channel that anger somewhere more productive.

[Guest]

Ok. But it still makes sense to close the loop hole. Take care of the trap players and disincentivize the reclassers at the same time. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

September 1st gets 97% of the issues resolved. It’s seems overly simple. There will always be kids who didn’t make the grade and are held back and there is no realistic way to capture them. If Hawaii and Kentucky need to use October 1 I don’t think anyone cares.

[Guest]

Reclassifying is basically a form of cheating for the rich. Reminds me of parents like Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman. Go ahead, reclass, whatever entitled thing you need to do. Raise weak brats with no grit. Those are the same kids who end up in fancy rehabs later. Parents trying to buy their kids futures without making them work for it or face adversity, Could care less if you want to cheat. You can’t buy talent and hard work mommy.

I hope they go by grade. It will give the majority of kids an opportunity to compete and been seen during high school. Equity is important.

My kid is at a prep school and did not reclass (she came in as a 9th grader). I would say that far more boys reclass than girls, however, I also think that you see more boys than girls coming into prep schools after grade 9 (at least at the schools I am familiar with). Reclassifying can be academically necessary for some kids-particularly if they did freshman year in public school. Many prep schools allow for (or even require) courses done in a different order, so what a student took for classes as a freshman in a public high school may not satisfy what the prep school requires. Example—one of the schools my kid was looking at starts their science curriculum with physics. Public schools typically offer Biology or general science to freshmen. At my kid’s school, math doesn’t have to be taken in the same order that MA public schools require. For kids coming in after a year (or multiple years) in public school, this can present a problem.

Also—not all kids at private schools come from rich families. Not even close.

[Guest]

Reclassifying is basically a form of cheating for the rich. Reminds me of parents like Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman. Go ahead, reclass, whatever entitled thing you need to do. Raise weak brats with no grit. Those are the same kids who end up in fancy rehabs later. Parents trying to buy their kids futures without making them work for it or face adversity, Could care less if you want to cheat. You can’t buy talent and hard work mommy.

I hope they go by grade. It will give the majority of kids an opportunity to compete and been seen during high school. Equity is important.

Don’t assume because someone presents some useful facts that they are on the opposite side of the argument. I am all for fixing the system for the trapped players. I’ve just been around long enough to see that reclassifying is the least of the worries in girls soccer.

[Guest]

My kid is at a prep school and did not reclass (she came in as a 9th grader). I would say that far more boys reclass than girls, however, I also think that you see more boys than girls coming into prep schools after grade 9 (at least at the schools I am familiar with). Reclassifying can be academically necessary for some kids-particularly if they did freshman year in public school. Many prep schools allow for (or even require) courses done in a different order, so what a student took for classes as a freshman in a public high school may not satisfy what the prep school requires. Example—one of the schools my kid was looking at starts their science curriculum with physics. Public schools typically offer Biology or general science to freshmen. At my kid’s school, math doesn’t have to be taken in the same order that MA public schools require. For kids coming in after a year (or multiple years) in public school, this can present a problem.

Also—not all kids at private schools come from rich families. Not even close.

Thank you for saying this my child is starting a private school as a 9th grader in the fall (not reclassifying) and we could never afford it without multiple school-provided scholarships/ financial aid. I don’t know a lot as new to it all but another soccer recruit they’re going in with is paying very little also so I don’t think across the board these are all wealthy kids, at least not the sports recruits.

[Guest]

September 1st gets 97% of the issues resolved. It’s seems overly simple. There will always be kids who didn’t make the grade and are held back and there is no realistic way to capture them. If Hawaii and Kentucky need to use October 1 I don’t think anyone cares.

There are school districts with August 1 cutoff. What happens to those kids? Will they have to play up with the grade above them because they missed the cutoff?

[Guest]

Sept 1-Aug 30 covers the bulk of the kids. It also covers those trying to cheat the system by reclassifying. If your kid goes to one of the very few that start before Sept 1, like Aug 30, maybe the leagues will accept paperwork proving you child’s school start date but I doubt it.

[Guest]

97% is better than 85%.

the trapped player situation sucks. Having 15%+ getting jerked around makes no sense. I’m all for waivers for the Aug 1st kids who have school district issues. That’s gotta be a super low percentage of kids.