ECNL wants to switch back to school year from birth year

[Guest]

If ECNL went SY and GA, MLSN, etc stayed BY and the rankings app split out teams by BY and SY (ie BSY2010 and BBY2010) the group that benefits the most would be the league with "lower" ranked teams. On the girls side SY = ECNL and BY = GA. So the two top teams per age group would always be one team from GA and one team from ECNL. On the boys side there would be one MLSN team and one ECNL top team per age group. The group that losses out in this situation is the lower top tier teams from a league with a large number of top teams. The group that wins is the league whose teams aren't ranked as highly but just happen to be the opposite of the BY or SY group with a large number of top teams. Here's another weird thing that could occur. Say 99% of the leagues in the nation were BY and one rec league was SY. You'd end up with one top BY team that represented the best team of 99% of the teams playing. But you'd also have another SY top team that represented 1% on the teams playing. Someone that didn't understand the the makeup of the BY vs SY grouping would assume the SY2010 team and the BY2010 team were equivalent when they are not.

[Guest]

We can now see the extent to which CEO Skip has turned his game and life around. He organizes a good solid game, not brilliant, but he did not need to. More importantly continues to be in play even when the ball isn't being kicked ot him on a lead. Chases hard which the resulting pressure ended up causing a fumble and consequent goal.

However more importantly, what a great role model to the kids at the club!!! It has been in the paper about how he brought his daughter, Mia’s daddy, down into the rooms with the team, but I'd like to add a bit more. I happened to be sitting in front of Mia’s daddy at the game. Immediately after the rest of the boys had walked down the race, Fev came over and picked up his daughter, gave her his medal, and carried her down into the rooms.

What he does in the off-season should be no issue for us, and there isn't much more we can get him to do in the on-season to get him to be a proper American footballer or role model for that fact.

I really think you've concocted a pretty convoluted solution to a problem that won't really exist by the time this all comes to pass, and described all the possible complications of same. I'm pretty confident it's not going to be nearly as bad, and even if it were, it would only be transitionary while all the leagues that matter got in sync. We all want to believe this about ourselves, but unfortunately we're all flawed. However much it matters, or doesn't matter, can be applied to the score of a game, position in a standings bracket, or relative team strength ratings. A consistent argument could be made that none of it matters a whit, or all of it is terribly important - while the truth probably falls somewhere in the middle depending on the individual perspective.

[Guest]

I really think you've concocted a pretty convoluted solution to a problem that won't really exist by the time this all comes to pass, and described all the possible complications of same. I'm pretty confident it's not going to be nearly as bad, and even if it were, it would only be transitionary while all the leagues that matter got in sync. We all want to believe this about ourselves, but unfortunately we're all flawed. However much it matters, or doesn't matter, can be applied to the score of a game, position in a standings bracket, or relative team strength ratings. A consistent argument could be made that none of it matters a whit, or all of it is terribly important - while the truth probably falls somewhere in the middle depending on the individual perspective.

OK - it's a mystery, but you don't want to share. So I dug. I imagine you're complaining about a Mass, of EA, and you've had issues with the Boys side before. So I looked at all Mass EA teams in 2010B that are in Unranked. There were about 12. 2 of them could be easily merged. The rest of them appear to be either one-offs, or are no longer playing. But one in particular did turn out to be a mystery, that is most probably due to the club being careless with team names, either intentionally or unintentionally. If you look at Elite clubs EA B10, it seems that there are two identical teams that played at the same time/days. Digging all the way through the links, it sure looks like the teams are named identically, they are in the same age brackets, yet they are separate. It's almost certain that all Mass Elite just put a younger (or older) team in one of the competitions, yet kept the name the same - so it isn't obvious to merge or separate the team data from just looking at it.

[Guest]

OK - it's a mystery, but you don't want to share. So I dug. I imagine you're complaining about a Mass, of EA, and you've had issues with the Boys side before. So I looked at all Mass EA teams in 2010B that are in Unranked. There were about 12. 2 of them could be easily merged. The rest of them appear to be either one-offs, or are no longer playing. But one in particular did turn out to be a mystery, that is most probably due to the club being careless with team names, either intentionally or unintentionally. If you look at Elite clubs EA B10, it seems that there are two identical teams that played at the same time/days. Digging all the way through the links, it sure looks like the teams are named identically, they are in the same age brackets, yet they are separate. It's almost certain that all Mass Elite just put a younger (or older) team in one of the competitions, yet kept the name the same - so it isn't obvious to merge or separate the team data from just looking at it.

You are so crazy. No, dude, I'm not describing that at all. I'm saying that the only thing that matters is the team entity, and the rating that is attached to it due to its performance in its game results. That rating is independent of everything, whether age/gender/location. I'm not sure that plain fact is really understood by most.

Ranking that rating is done by putting them all in a like group and sorting them. Now it's done by age/gender/location, as those are the most obvious attributes assigned to a team entity that can be pulled in as part of their results.

You believe that if there are BY teams and SY teams, that they shouldn't be put in the same group and ranked because one is 6 months older. OK - but then you're proposing exactly that, there are two sets of groups for each age range, and sort ratings independently for each.

I think two things. One, it's clunky, and splitting the ratings out into two separate groups would be too confusing for most to interpret, so it wouldn't be a great UI for any app doing so. Two, I don't see clubs actually naming & separating their teams as such, with some BY teams, and some SY teams, depending on level of play, league, etc. If that second one doesn't happen, there's no ability (or need) for the first.

[Guest]

You are so crazy. No, dude, I'm not describing that at all. I'm saying that the only thing that matters is the team entity, and the rating that is attached to it due to its performance in its game results. That rating is independent of everything, whether age/gender/location. I'm not sure that plain fact is really understood by most.

Ranking that rating is done by putting them all in a like group and sorting them. Now it's done by age/gender/location, as those are the most obvious attributes assigned to a team entity that can be pulled in as part of their results.

You believe that if there are BY teams and SY teams, that they shouldn't be put in the same group and ranked because one is 6 months older. OK - but then you're proposing exactly that, there are two sets of groups for each age range, and sort ratings independently for each.

I think two things. One, it's clunky, and splitting the ratings out into two separate groups would be too confusing for most to interpret, so it wouldn't be a great UI for any app doing so. Two, I don't see clubs actually naming & separating their teams as such, with some BY teams, and some SY teams, depending on level of play, league, etc. If that second one doesn't happen, there's no ability (or need) for the first.

#TeamSchoolYear

Coach fields and manager fields aren't usually that important. Many tournaments don't include them, and for systems that do - often clubs leave many coach/manager names attached to a particular team. Yes - it may be helpful if a human is trying to differentiate between two data sources and that data alone makes the difference - but it's rare. In almost all cases, team name is more than good enough - along with any links that team name has to other data (like gotsport team ID). And if there isn't any clarity there, the data isn't automatically merged, and it goes into unranked, and eventually someone moves it over if possible or it just stays there. But in this case - you can't fix bad data if it's unclear from the source. Playing the wrong age team in a different age bracket and not changing the team name - ends up with exactly this outcome. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things, and none of this data is perfect - but if a team/club cares about their own results being attached to the correct team, it's not hard to just name their teams appropriately. Some clubs do it without an issue with hundreds of teams. Others are quite haphazard.

[Guest]

#TeamSchoolYear

Coach fields and manager fields aren't usually that important. Many tournaments don't include them, and for systems that do - often clubs leave many coach/manager names attached to a particular team. Yes - it may be helpful if a human is trying to differentiate between two data sources and that data alone makes the difference - but it's rare. In almost all cases, team name is more than good enough - along with any links that team name has to other data (like gotsport team ID). And if there isn't any clarity there, the data isn't automatically merged, and it goes into unranked, and eventually someone moves it over if possible or it just stays there. But in this case - you can't fix bad data if it's unclear from the source. Playing the wrong age team in a different age bracket and not changing the team name - ends up with exactly this outcome. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things, and none of this data is perfect - but if a team/club cares about their own results being attached to the correct team, it's not hard to just name their teams appropriately. Some clubs do it without an issue with hundreds of teams. Others are quite haphazard.

I used to talk it up a bit more to other parents, and some certainly got interested in it. But honestly, most of them would then just come to me before a game and ask what things looked like (so I could look at the app and tell them, as if my ability to use a smartphone is a class of magic). Nowadays, it comes up in conversation from time to time, but the vast majority of the time I'm explaining it to them for the first time - they had no idea it existed. Two weeks ago for me, this included parents of kids on a team in the top 2% of teams in MA, so ignorance of its existence is not solely made up of lower level teams - it's pretty widespread.

I think there is also a natural skepticism of things like this for many. "Wait, that app is going to tell me how good my kid's team is? Bull****. I know better". It doesn't matter whatever level of accuracy can be shown - it just wouldn't matter if it got 100 games in a row correct - many would bitch that it got game 101 wrong, so to them it's useless. It also doesn't help the cause that there are pretty bad examples out there of ranking/rating processes, whether the paid promotion on websites and related media, or ones that are just particularly bad at math - so someone who becomes skeptical of all things in this genre may have some experience to back up their beliefs.

That said, IMO, the addressable market with this is large enough that Mark could be making some real money with it if he wanted to. Full web advertising campaign, with SR showing up in the banners in every soccer website, and he should up the cost 500%. Anyone who is dropping $10/year on it is not the casual fan; they are the borderline psycho soccer parents (like many of us), who would have no qualms dropping $50/year on it, if not more. Heck, we have it on 3 devices here for convenience, and it's still only $30/year.

[Guest]

Because they dont care about the players and the big ECNL clubs want to take advantage of the situation. Possibly the worst possible choice that could have been made out of all options on the table. Or maybe it just presents an opportunity for all the smart parents to weed out the not so smart clubs to avoid.

[Guest]

1. Why are registrations disabled on this board. The anonymity allows
too many punks.

2. I really don't know what all the leagues are thinking. My speculatuon is it would be foolish for any league to be the odd man out. Which is probably why the competing orginizations (US Soccer, US Club Soccer, US Youth Soccer) are getting together to make a group decision. As far as I know DPL is under USSSA, and they have not entered the Chat. I'm not sure if GA falls under USSSA still or not, GA may now fall under US Soccer. GA experts will need to chime in on that. Anyone who does not fall in line with whatever is the top youth sports orginazation chooses is facing an uphill battle. That is what happened when DA forced the change; many were upset and disagreed, but realized they had to fall in line with DA or get left behind.

[Guest]

Inside Tip: ECNL will purchase GA on December 1. Its on LinkedIn.

Where?

[Guest]

If the daddy of “Mia” doesn’t pound on your snarky ass like a rented mule, I sure and sh*t will. Why is this so important? Coaching and selection have been subjective opinion based systems that for so long that coaches have passed off as fact. It not only shows that they are wrong, but It gives us a glimpse into what those coaches are thinking. And most importantly, it reveals that their selections at early ages are being used to hold a place for others who will take their place later.

Oh I’m scared now Mr. Dbag. You’re a tool behind a computer and a bad m******* attitude your comment literally makes no sense. Go back to your $1 bottle of charcoal filtered vodka

[Guest]

It's just not fair for kids born in q3 and q4 to have to be trapped in 8th

[Guest]

It's just not fair for kids born in q3 and q4 to have to be trapped in 8th, excluded from being actively recruited while they are in 10th grade while their majority 11th grader teammates are getting watched, combined with a wave of older kids in their prime recruiting year and be the youngest group to be trying out for that spot on the same team, and senior year, again go through a team change combining with the younger group. Why do only q3/q4s kids have to go through all of this? On the top level, MLS next academy side, age is much more flexible and kids can play up or bioband down, so it shouldn't be an issue, but for the rest of happy to play for college/high school American kids, SY makes so much more sense.

[Guest]

It's just not fair for kids born in q3 and q4 to have to be trapped in 8th, excluded from being actively recruited while they are in 10th grade while their majority 11th grader teammates are getting watched, combined with a wave of older kids in their prime recruiting year and be the youngest group to be trying out for that spot on the same team, and senior year, again go through a team change combining with the younger group. Why do only q3/q4s kids have to go through all of this? On the top level, MLS next academy side, age is much more flexible and kids can play up or bioband down, so it shouldn't be an issue, but for the rest of happy to play for college/high school American kids, SY makes so much more sense.

So in 8th how many games do they miss? Do you know? Here’s a hint, it’s 0. They play the same number of games just start 2 months later? So what are they missing? There have been so many parents on this thread of trapped players actually talking about the benefit of their kid getting looks early. Coaches recruit players not teams no coach is going to random games and saying I like #6. It doesn’t work like that. So yeah all of your points are actually invalid. Stop with the nonsense

[Guest]

Four more days and this thread can die, at least for myself. Everyone that I have talked to is for the change. I can see how much parents of Q1/Q2 parents care about their younger teammates some of whom are trapped players. Not on our team at least, I feel bad for the teams that have parents like the one above, they have no idea what it is to be a good teams mate and I doubt they are teaching their kids.

[Guest]

So in 8th how many games do they miss? Do you know? Here’s a hint, it’s 0. They play the same number of games just start 2 months later? So what are they missing? There have been so many parents on this thread of trapped players actually talking about the benefit of their kid getting looks early. Coaches recruit players not teams no coach is going to random games and saying I like #6. It doesn’t work like that. So yeah all of your points are actually invalid. Stop with the nonsense

I know the title of the thread is ECNL but the discussion has expanded to all of youth soccer at this point so your statement about missed games is not true. NECSL players at smaller clubs or satellite regions of large clubs often have no club games to play in the Fall of their 8th grade school year and those missed games are not made up once HS season is over. I can't say if this is true all over the country but I know for a FACT it's true here in MA.