Can someone discuss the benefits of D3 soccer.

[Guest]

The response was to this, which I bolded: That said, the notion that D1 represents a level of soccer excellence that D3 does not is BS

Same player looked at completely differently in how they are expected to perform based on the Division

By two coaches. Hardly relevant. Im sure there are others who experienced the opposite.

[Guest]

Because most students go to schools within 4(?) hours from home. In no way suggesting the conference is competition with the P5 schools. If you are looking at schools in the area, that conference is better the the others (IMO).

Just making a general statement, lots to consider beyond the conference. LOTS.

Got it. reality is these are the types of decisions that most people face. If you were good enough to play at Stanford for free, maybe you change your decision. There is lots to consider based on what options you have. The better you are, the more options. You may still make the same choices.

[Guest]

By two coaches. Hardly relevant. Im sure there are others who experienced the opposite.

All we can give is our own experiences. I could wax on about other theories and ideas of what I don't know anything about, but would relevance would that have? I don't deal in conjecture, only facts. Other schools suggested similar, but not so firmly.

You do you.

That being said, I'd be extremely interested in hearing from families of kids who are viewed as projects on the best, or one of, the best D3 schools in the area but who were promised a starting role on a mid-level D1 school and that they are building their recruiting class around them. If you have that detail, please pass it along.

[Guest]

The response was to this, which I bolded: That said, the notion that D1 represents a level of soccer excellence that D3 does not is BS

Same player looked at completely differently in how they are expected to perform based on the Division

On the other hand, D had a club teammate who really wanted to go/play at Amherst but couldn't get recruited there, and now she plays in the Patriot League. Lots of anecdotes. Go figure.

[Guest]

All we can give is our own experiences. I could wax on about other theories and ideas of what I don't know anything about, but would relevance would that have? I don't deal in conjecture, only facts. Other schools suggested similar, but not so firmly.

You do you.

That being said, I'd be extremely interested in hearing from families of kids who are viewed as projects on the best, or one of, the best D3 schools in the area but who were promised a starting role on a mid-level D1 school and that they are building their recruiting class around them. If you have that detail, please pass it along.

Talk is cheap. recruiting is notorious for telling kids what they want to hear. You do you is great advice. My experience is the difference between the top of D3 and most of D1 is depth, not quality. By most, I mean outside the top 50.

[Guest]

On the other hand, D had a club teammate who really wanted to go/play at Amherst but couldn't get recruited there, and now she plays in the Patriot League. Lots of anecdotes. Go figure.

Makes sense.

[Guest]

Talk is cheap. recruiting is notorious for telling kids what they want to hear. You do you is great advice. My experience is the difference between the top of D3 and most of D1 is depth, not quality. By most, I mean outside the top 50.

IMHO, mid- and low-level D1 teams are better than top-level D3 teams. But the reason why is because they play and practice more year-round. Outside the D1 top 50-ish teams, the freshmen recruiting classes at the top D3 programs are comparable to the mid- and lower-D1 program freshmen recruiting classes, but by the time those players are sophomores, the D1 players will have trained more and played more than their D3 counterparts, and by the time everyone is a senior, the distinction between those lower- and mid-level D1 teams versus their D3 counterparts is significant.

[Guest]

For women's college soccer, there are so many DI programs and those programs' rosters are so huge (either to generate enrollment or to counter-balance the size of the football teams for Title IX, or both), that it is a lot easier to find a DI soccer offer (of a roster spot) than in men's soccer. Getting a legit scholarship is a different story since they only have 14.4 to give, so that means more than a roster spot, which is relatively easier to get. That naturally means that the quality of women's DIII soccer on the whole is lower because more women are more likely to have DI offers. If you're focused on high academic schools, though, then there are DIII schools that can attract a strong player who had or could have had a DI offer if she had been willing to compromise the high academic part to consider any old DI school, but there are enough strong academic DI schools for women (putting aside whether the players can actually take full advantage of the strong academics) that a player doesn't necessarily have to compromise.

For men's soccer, there are a lot fewer DI programs, rosters are large, but also often crowded with more int'l players than in the women's game, and there are fewer scholarships available (only 9.9). So, it's more likely that a strong player will not end up with a DI offer and will take a DIII because it is close by, high academic, and/or has more merit or financial aid money than a DII, NAIA etc. Doesn't mean men's DIII soccer is better or comparable to the DI rosters, but it means there are probably star DIII players who could displace an average DI player. As one example, the DIII player of the year for 2021, German Giammetti of Amherst, transferred to Maryland and played 13 games, starting 7, last year and had a goal and two assists. He likely could have gone to a lower-level DI and played more and had more stats. There are also examples of players in DI who get no playing time, are not at a great university, and realize that makes no sense and transfer to a top DIII academic/soccer program for a better balance. For example, Simon Kalinauskas, a 6'5" Australian defender, started his college carer at DI West Virginia University in 2021, didn't get any minutes his freshman year, and transferred to Amherst, where he started all 18 games he played in during the 2022 season. He likely could have found another DI program to go to based on his size and int'l pedigree, but chose to go DIII high academic after getting a better sense for the US college system. So, there are probably legit DI players in DIII in men's soccer more often than in women's soccer, but it happens in both.

From a bragging perspective, it's all fairly stupid. More women in DI are just bench fodder than men simply because there are so many women's DI programs and fewer women's youth players than men's youth players (and a smaller int'l pool, although that is changing). So, saying your kid is DI is not quite as big a deal unless you add on their minutes and stats, although just staying on the team throughout college is an accomplishment to be proud of in the final analysis. But, fewer men than women in DI are legit pro prospects because men's youth soccer has a well-developed pro academy system in the US and abroad, while fewer women's pro academies exist, so saying your son is playing DI is admitting that they aren't much of a pro prospect. There are men who choose college over an MLS Next Pro contract, but if they were one of the best players, they would have had better pro options. The top male players have almost completely left college soccer, while most of the top women players are still going to college (although that is changing).

So, there isn't a lot to brag about based only on your kid's division on either the men's or women's side. Just celebrate all kids, don't get defensive or superior based on what someone else says about their kid or your kid, and enjoy the ride. Statistically, it will be over for every single person posting or reading this thread once college ends.

[Guest]

Talk is cheap. recruiting is notorious for telling kids what they want to hear. You do you is great advice. My experience is the difference between the top of D3 and most of D1 is depth, not quality. By most, I mean outside the top 50.

Was the talk cheap saying she's a project and won't play for a while? Or was the talk cheap that she's a starter and her top recruit? I mean, think my kid really wanted to hear she wasn't a D1's school number one recruit and wasn't going to play?

[Guest]

IMHO, mid- and low-level D1 teams are better than top-level D3 teams. But the reason why is because they play and practice more year-round. Outside the D1 top 50-ish teams, the freshmen recruiting classes at the top D3 programs are comparable to the mid- and lower-D1 program freshmen recruiting classes, but by the time those players are sophomores, the D1 players will have trained more and played more than their D3 counterparts, and by the time everyone is a senior, the distinction between those lower- and mid-level D1 teams versus their D3 counterparts is significant.

Training more and playing more does not necessarily mean improving. If the two team played, I guarantee you the D1 school would not have the best 11 players on the field. They would likely have more depth. I should add I am talking about women's soccer only.

[Guest]

Was the talk cheap saying she's a project and won't play for a while? Or was the talk cheap that she's a starter and her top recruit? I mean, think my kid really wanted to hear she wasn't a D1's school number one recruit and wasn't going to play?

You decide.

[Guest]

"For women's college soccer, there are so many DI programs and those programs' rosters are so huge (either to generate enrollment or to counter-balance the size of the football teams for Title IX, or both), that it is a lot easier to find a DI soccer offer (of a roster spot) than in men's soccer. Getting a legit scholarship is a different story since they only have 14.4 to give, so that means more than a roster spot, which is relatively easier to get. That naturally means that the quality of women's DIII soccer on the whole is lower because more women are more likely to have DI offers. If you're focused on high academic schools, though, then there are DIII schools that can attract a strong player who had or could have had a DI offer if she had been willing to compromise the high academic part to consider any old DI school, but there are enough strong academic DI schools for women (putting aside whether the players can actually take full advantage of the strong academics) that a player doesn't necessarily have to compromise."

There you go again with the compromise part. Just say that there are strong players who think D3 is a better fit. To make it about academic compromise only is disingenuous and not true. While tha may hold true for some, its case by case. My D turned down Ivys because she had no interest in the Ivy experience. She is a strong student. She had no desire to go D3 because she could get a full ride at schools that satisfied her requirements. Her choice, not mine. Happy with the outcome.

[Guest]

"For women's college soccer, there are so many DI programs and those programs' rosters are so huge (either to generate enrollment or to counter-balance the size of the football teams for Title IX, or both), that it is a lot easier to find a DI soccer offer (of a roster spot) than in men's soccer. Getting a legit scholarship is a different story since they only have 14.4 to give, so that means more than a roster spot, which is relatively easier to get. That naturally means that the quality of women's DIII soccer on the whole is lower because more women are more likely to have DI offers. If you're focused on high academic schools, though, then there are DIII schools that can attract a strong player who had or could have had a DI offer if she had been willing to compromise the high academic part to consider any old DI school, but there are enough strong academic DI schools for women (putting aside whether the players can actually take full advantage of the strong academics) that a player doesn't necessarily have to compromise."

There you go again with the compromise part. Just say that there are strong players who think D3 is a better fit. To make it about academic compromise only is disingenuous and not true. While tha may hold true for some, its case by case. My D turned down Ivys because she had no interest in the Ivy experience. She is a strong student. She had no desire to go D3 because she could get a full ride at schools that satisfied her requirements. Her choice, not mine. Happy with the outcome.

It's true that kids can turn down schools for all sorts of reasons, but the opening clause of the sentence "If you're focused on high academic schools" kind of narrows down the criteria so the rest of the sentence is certainly valid. I think all you're saying is that your kid rejected one DI high academic for another DI high academic. The Ivy League is not the end all be all for high academics. As I said, "there are enough strong academic DI schools for a woman that a player doesn't have to compromise for another DI high academic." That is totally different than a kid whose choices are a DI lower academic and a DIII high academic. That is what the sentence was referring to when it said "there are DIII schools that can attract a strong player who had or could have had a DI offer if she had been willing to compromise the high academic part to consider any old DI school."

It sounds like you are being unnecessarily defensive, which is what a lot people seem to be in this thread or when this topic is raised in person. My guess (based on your mention of turning down Ivies, which is the academic equivalent of saying you turned down DI) is that you are sensitive about this point for your daughter because you and she have an expanded definition of "high academic" compared to some people. That's less of an argument about DI v. DIII and more about the general elitism among non-soccer parents about Ivy League schools v. all other schools. Sure, if your kid rejected Harvard for Sacred Heart, you're going to have to deal with the raised eyebrows if you insist that Sacred Heart is better for your kid because it has nursing and Harvard does not (I'm making up the schools and the major - but if I have actually hit on your situation exactly, I apologize). There are DIII schools with nursing, such as Gettysburg college where you can do a fifth year at Johns Hopkins and get a masters in nursing too, but, DI soccer + the nursing major is a coherent reason to pick Sacred Heart over Harvard (or Gettysburg/JHU) even though reasonable people can disagree about whether you actually chose what they consider a "high academic." It doesn't mean your kid is not a strong student because she didn't choose an Ivy.

[Guest]

It's true that kids can turn down schools for all sorts of reasons, but the opening clause of the sentence "If you're focused on high academic schools" kind of narrows down the criteria so the rest of the sentence is certainly valid. I think all you're saying is that your kid rejected one DI high academic for another DI high academic. The Ivy League is not the end all be all for high academics. As I said, "there are enough strong academic DI schools for a woman that a player doesn't have to compromise for another DI high academic." That is totally different than a kid whose choices are a DI lower academic and a DIII high academic. That is what the sentence was referring to when it said "there are DIII schools that can attract a strong player who had or could have had a DI offer if she had been willing to compromise the high academic part to consider any old DI school."

It sounds like you are being unnecessarily defensive, which is what a lot people seem to be in this thread or when this topic is raised in person. My guess (based on your mention of turning down Ivies, which is the academic equivalent of saying you turned down DI) is that you are sensitive about this point for your daughter because you and she have an expanded definition of "high academic" compared to some people. That's less of an argument about DI v. DIII and more about the general elitism among non-soccer parents about Ivy League schools v. all other schools. Sure, if your kid rejected Harvard for Sacred Heart, you're going to have to deal with the raised eyebrows if you insist that Sacred Heart is better for your kid because it has nursing and Harvard does not (I'm making up the schools and the major - but if I have actually hit on your situation exactly, I apologize). There are DIII schools with nursing, such as Gettysburg college where you can do a fifth year at Johns Hopkins and get a masters in nursing too, but, DI soccer + the nursing major is a coherent reason to pick Sacred Heart over Harvard (or Gettysburg/JHU) even though reasonable people can disagree about whether you actually chose what they consider a "high academic." It doesn't mean your kid is not a strong student because she didn't choose an Ivy.

defensive about what? what part of it being her choice and happy with the outcome makes you think defensive? I think people are looking for agendas that dont exist. She went to a top 25 school according to most College ranking lists (not that I care) that is also a top 10 soccer school every year. Started in more than one Final 4 game. So no, you did not hit her situation at all.

[Guest]

IMHO, mid- and low-level D1 teams are better than top-level D3 teams. But the reason why is because they play and practice more year-round. Outside the D1 top 50-ish teams, the freshmen recruiting classes at the top D3 programs are comparable to the mid- and lower-D1 program freshmen recruiting classes, but by the time those players are sophomores, the D1 players will have trained more and played more than their D3 counterparts, and by the time everyone is a senior, the distinction between those lower- and mid-level D1 teams versus their D3 counterparts is significant.

As has been said there's more overlap low D1 vs top D3 going into to college, but
The differences grow as D1 players simply practice amd play more.