2013 Boys Soccer Verbal Commitments

[Unregistered]

There is clearly a subset of this discussion that trivalizes the amount of money being spent on youth soccer so it is quite logical that any discussion about expectations is apt to be seen as foolish by them. Either they have more money than most and the amount they spend on soccer is insignificant to them or they really are not at the level of soccer where they are called upon to spend the huge amounts others are spending. In either case they simply are not concerned about the cost/benefit analysis most families eventually have to confront. Let's be clear about the costs though. They are not trivial. Here are some ball park estimates

Club fee: $2,000
Team fund: $500
Uniforms: $85 ($250 every 3 years)
Cleats: $300 (3 pairs per year)
Misc training gear: $50 (shirts, shorts etc)

Gas & Tolls for practices: $2,500 (3 per week @ 60 miles rt for 26 weeks)
Gas & Tolls for local games: $1,500 (1 per week @ 100 miles rt for 26 weeks)

Out of state tournaments driveable (2) - Gas & Tolls: $600 (2 @ 600 miles rt)
Out of state tournaments airfare (2): $1,500 (2 @ $350 per seat rt)
Out of state tournaments car rental: $300 (2 @ $150 per weekend)
Out of state tournaments hotel: $1,200 (8 nights @ $150 per night)
Out of state tournaments meals: $1,200 (12 days @ $75 per day X 2)

This budget projects a rather modest amount of tournament travel and still comes out to almost $12,000.

If you have a player who has aspirations of playing at high in college you need to add in money for private coaching. Most of these players will have a private skill coach and a physical trainer. Generall you will pay $50 per session to each. Most players will train 3x per week with the physical trainer and 1 with the skill trainer. Figure that schedule for 6 months. That adds $7,200 to the total. So now we are up to $19,000.

If the player is involved with ODP the base fee is $1,500 and you need to figure in the Rider Cup trip which after all is said and done will add roughly about $900 in travel costs to the budget. So for just an average player with college aspirations you can easily be up over $21,000.

If the player is an above average player that makes it into the regional pool or above, the cost jumps up even more. The regional pool training sessions run about $350 per pop without travel. There is usually 5 of those along the way. Travel is variable with this. Some families go, some don't so the number is widely variable. At the very least you have the transportation cost of getting the player to the camp and that will run about $250 per. The Inter Regionals in Boca will cost another $350 with another $500 in flights (Thanksgiving travel costs). If the player gets invited on one of the international trips those coast around $2,000. After all is said and done, a top level player's family could easily be spending upwards of $30,000 for all of this. Not so trivial.

BTDT, since we are talking about a very low number of kids who fit all of the elements you included above it sounds like you are only debating with yourself, and/or with a very, very small number of families. The vast majority of people on this site do not fit into those categories, and indeed only a small percentage even falls into the DAP, ENCL, Reg 1 subgroups. We spent $1500-$2500 a year and my kid is extremely happy playing a good level of D3 soccer at a good school. 90% or more are looking for a roughly similar scenario to that, with a good portion who will ultimately be quite satisfied with a reasonably successful high school career.

Seriously, what number of kids in MA every year do you project spend 20-30K per year? And if they do, do you presume they are clueless? You can't do all the names you named unless you've been singled out as a reasonably superior player. So maybe you are just looking for a pat on the back.

[Unregistered]

there is clearly a subset of this discussion that trivalizes the amount of money being spent on youth soccer so it is quite logical that any discussion about expectations is apt to be seen as foolish by them. Either they have more money than most and the amount they spend on soccer is insignificant to them or they really are not at the level of soccer where they are called upon to spend the huge amounts others are spending. In either case they simply are not concerned about the cost/benefit analysis most families eventually have to confront. Let's be clear about the costs though. They are not trivial. Here are some ball park estimates

club fee: $2,000
team fund: $500
uniforms: $85 ($250 every 3 years)
cleats: $300 (3 pairs per year)
misc training gear: $50 (shirts, shorts etc)

gas & tolls for practices: $2,500 (3 per week @ 60 miles rt for 26 weeks)
gas & tolls for local games: $1,500 (1 per week @ 100 miles rt for 26 weeks)

out of state tournaments driveable (2) - gas & tolls: $600 (2 @ 600 miles rt)
out of state tournaments airfare (2): $1,500 (2 @ $350 per seat rt)
out of state tournaments car rental: $300 (2 @ $150 per weekend)
out of state tournaments hotel: $1,200 (8 nights @ $150 per night)
out of state tournaments meals: $1,200 (12 days @ $75 per day x 2)

this budget projects a rather modest amount of tournament travel and still comes out to almost $12,000.

If you have a player who has aspirations of playing at high in college you need to add in money for private coaching. Most of these players will have a private skill coach and a physical trainer. Generall you will pay $50 per session to each. Most players will train 3x per week with the physical trainer and 1 with the skill trainer. Figure that schedule for 6 months. That adds $7,200 to the total. So now we are up to $19,000.

If the player is involved with odp the base fee is $1,500 and you need to figure in the rider cup trip which after all is said and done will add roughly about $900 in travel costs to the budget. So for just an average player with college aspirations you can easily be up over $21,000.

If the player is an above average player that makes it into the regional pool or above, the cost jumps up even more. The regional pool training sessions run about $350 per pop without travel. There is usually 5 of those along the way. Travel is variable with this. Some families go, some don't so the number is widely variable. At the very least you have the transportation cost of getting the player to the camp and that will run about $250 per. The inter regionals in boca will cost another $350 with another $500 in flights (thanksgiving travel costs). If the player gets invited on one of the international trips those coast around $2,000. After all is said and done, a top level player's family could easily be spending upwards of $30,000 for all of this. Not so trivial.

this is a boys thread.
Revs are free.
Bolts dap is around 7500
mps elite is around 7500
ps. Who gets 3 pairs of cleats for 300? Let me know because i would buy some

[Unregistered]

BTDT, since we are talking about a very low number of kids who fit all of the elements you included above it sounds like you are only debating with yourself, and/or with a very, very small number of families. The vast majority of people on this site do not fit into those categories, and indeed only a small percentage even falls into the DAP, ENCL, Reg 1 subgroups. We spent $1500-$2500 a year and my kid is extremely happy playing a good level of D3 soccer at a good school. 90% or more are looking for a roughly similar scenario to that, with a good portion who will ultimately be quite satisfied with a reasonably successful high school career.

Seriously, what number of kids in MA every year do you project spend 20-30K per year? And if they do, do you presume they are clueless? You can't do all the names you named unless you've been singled out as a reasonably superior player. So maybe you are just looking for a pat on the back.

Perhaps you are not aware of the spending because you are a couple of years removed but those numbers are far more accurate than you might want to believe. That $12,000 number is probably very common these days because you have a lot more teams that are now doing regional level travelling. 2 out of state tournaments is nothing these days and the travelling generally starts much younger around 12-13 so parents are spending the money for a longer period of time. Wasn't that the original point that when you are spending 78-80K just for the experience it is not really the same situation as you experience when you could only spend $1500-2000 a year for a year or two and then move on to college. Different decisions.

[Unregistered]

This is ridiculous. My son plays at a competitive D1 school and I've never even heard of anybody doing this.

This is actually hysterically funny. My kid is a senior and will play D1. We pay a club fee of $2100 that includes uniforms and everything else. We have no team fees. We have no additional training fees with any private trainers. There is an extra day available but it is optional and not necessary if your kid is a starter or gets alot of time in the game. We do two travel (air) tournaments but there is no way we are spending the kind of money you state.

[Unregistered]

Perhaps you are not aware of the spending because you are a couple of years removed but those numbers are far more accurate than you might want to believe. That $12,000 number is probably very common these days because you have a lot more teams that are now doing regional level travelling. 2 out of state tournaments is nothing these days and the travelling generally starts much younger around 12-13 so parents are spending the money for a longer period of time. Wasn't that the original point that when you are spending 78-80K just for the experience it is not really the same situation as you experience when you could only spend $1500-2000 a year for a year or two and then move on to college. Different decisions.

My kid played club from U10 to U19....here are some generous estimates....

U10 -- $750

U11 -- $750

U12 -- $1000

U13 -- $1500

U14 -- $1750

U15 -- $1750

U16 -- $2500

U17 -- $2500

U18 -- $2000

U19 -- $250

So that's roughly 15K over 10 years. I'll throw in 5K to cover everything I'm forgetting. I am comfortable that the cost was 20K or below for 10 years of a mostly very good experience and a current college experience that actually has exceeded expectations. I've got no gripe and certainly don't feel duped.

But what exactly is your gripe? It is not clear what your actual point is. Now that you know you are breaking even on your full D1 ride to come you feel that isn't a fair deal? Your kid even if a superstar should only play if their is some excellent ROI at the end? Do you think a kid that plays D1 (or D2 or D3) college basketball and never makes a dime doesn't cherish that for the rest of his or her life, that it doesn't make any difference in his or her life? Seriously, what are you recommending given what you have outlined?

[Unregistered]

My kid played club from U10 to U19....here are some generous estimates....

U10 -- $750

U11 -- $750

U12 -- $1000

U13 -- $1500

U14 -- $1750

U15 -- $1750

U16 -- $2500

U17 -- $2500

U18 -- $2000

U19 -- $250

So that's roughly 15K over 10 years. I'll throw in 5K to cover everything I'm forgetting. I am comfortable that the cost was 20K or below for 10 years of a mostly very good experience and a current college experience that actually has exceeded expectations. I've got no gripe and certainly don't feel duped.

But what exactly is your gripe? It is not clear what your actual point is. Now that you know you are breaking even on your full D1 ride to come you feel that isn't a fair deal? Your kid even if a superstar should only play if their is some excellent ROI at the end? Do you think a kid that plays D1 (or D2 or D3) college basketball and never makes a dime doesn't cherish that for the rest of his or her life, that it doesn't make any difference in his or her life? Seriously, what are you recommending given what you have outlined?

Clearly your youth soccer experience predates the explosion in spending. You are lucky. The amounts you listed only cover what the club fees are right now and clearly you didn't do any travel because a trip to Disney would eat up most of what you say you spent for the year.

Good point. If soccer was banned as a college sport, club soccer would continue basically uninterrupted because most participants do it because they like to play. The part about using soccer to get into college is practically a hassle. If it wasn't a necessary evil of how to continue playing after high school, many would be happy to choose their college, and show up at an open tryout and see if they could make the college team. Sure they can opt to do this, but many do not because walk-ons are considered to be at a disadvantage. If the system was that everyone walked on, many kids would happily choose that.

Seriously?? You would drop $10-15k a year on a kids activity just for the heck of it? I am a big believer in needing passion to be involved with all of this but once we all started dropping serious coin on youth soccer everyone I know that stayed with it made a value judgement. If the passion was not there or the end result wasn't going to justify the effort, most sane people I know dropped out. The way I look at it 99% of the craziness is from the people who have unrealistic expectations from all of this. I would throw having no expectations into that pot as well. That is insane in my book. Not only is all of this expensive, it is an incredible grind as well. As they say, different strokes for different folks. If that is how you want to spend you money that is your prerogative but don't paint yourself as a representative of the majority of parents involved in club soccer. No way.

Here are the posts that brought the cost issue into the discussion. People like you clearly are not connected to where youth soccer has gone since your children went through it so it is fairly obvious that you can't relate to the decisions families are now faced with. Whether you want to believe it or not some families truthfully now are spending in one year what you spent over a 10 year time frame. The reality is that changes the expectations quite a bit. Were someone like you would think nothing of having your children play for a top club and then be quite content with a D3 outcome because of the extreme expense now involved most families are now forced to decide pretty early on whether or not there is any upside to their child's involvement and either pick up their spending to maximize the opportunity or drop off the treadmil completely. The ultimate point is I think you will find that most people that stay involved club soccer to the end these days are not going to be as laissez faire in their opinions as you seem to be.

[Unregistered]

Clearly your youth soccer experience predates the explosion in spending. You are lucky. The amounts you listed only cover what the club fees are right now and clearly you didn't do any travel because a trip to Disney would eat up most of what you say you spent for the year.



Here are the posts that brought the cost issue into the discussion. People like you clearly are not connected to where youth soccer has gone since your children went through it so it is fairly obvious that you can't relate to the decisions families are now faced with. Whether you want to believe it or not some families truthfully now are spending in one year what you spent over a 10 year time frame. The reality is that changes the expectations quite a bit. Were someone like you would think nothing of having your children play for a top club and then be quite content with a D3 outcome because of the extreme expense now involved most families are now forced to decide pretty early on whether or not there is any upside to their child's involvement and either pick up their spending to maximize the opportunity or drop off the treadmil completely. The ultimate point is I think you will find that most people that stay involved club soccer to the end these days are not going to be as laissez faire in their opinions as you seem to be.

BTDT, as usual you did not respond to any of the questions asked of you. What is your gripe? Are you upset that even with a very top player you are not going to make out on the deal even with a hefty scholarship to a great D1 school? The alleged dilemma you pose does not apply to most club players. For the relatively small group for which it does apply, giving you some latitude on how big that group is, how many at that very level don't know what they are doing? You're not claiming that players on B club teams are spending that much or the teams at the top of MAPLE these days, right? Your 30 K example included a very top club playing ENCL, Reg 1, going to tournaments like Disney, doing ODP all the way to national ODP, and private cello lessons. Saying that there are 5 a year that fit that category is an exaggeration, so who in the heck are you talking about? Obviously yourself. So take your bow and be done with it. Or how about a full scholarship plus 250K a year as a bonus stipend. Would that do it for you???

[Unregistered]

The problem with a commitment list is most parents look at a name and assume the player hit the jackpot. That is just not true. Soccer is an equivalency sport. Means the entire program only has 9.9 scholarships to be spread out amongst the entire roster. Most college rosters are between 25-30 players. Few player get a full ride. The average is about 25%. Here is the litmus test. Look at the list of commitments. If you look at a name and say to yourself, "yeh I could see that kid starring there", that means he is probably getting a little more of that 25%. Now if you look at a name and say to yourself, "yeh I could see that kid playing there", that means he is probably getting right around that 25%. The reality though is if you look a name and the phrase "aggressive placement" pops into your head that should tip you off that the player is probably only getting a minimal amount or no money at all. That is not necessarily an evil thing because kids make all kinds of choices when it comes to college. The harm comes when some other parent looks at the list and then says to their self, "hey my kid is better than that kid, so not only can they play there but they should be get a ton of money too". It doesn't work that way but the clubs love to feed the fantasy that it does.

BINGO! Excellent post. And if people are wondering what type of aid each of these players received...it's really none of your business. Athletic, merit, need-based aid, it all counts and hopefully they all have a great experience both on and off the soccer pitch.

It wasn't a great post, because the bit about harm is so overstated. There is no real harm. Most don't believe kids are getting full rides, and most people aren't going to decide if their kid is D1 material (for money) based just on some comparison with another kid. they are going to get feedback from others, like coaches, and they will know if any D1 coaches are pursuing them. And if they are aiming too high, they will figure that out and adjust. it's not like they still wouldn't play club, because once they get the disappointment about D1 if there really is any then they will want to play at Trinity or Wheaton or somewhere.

OP here. The primary reason I have compiled this list for years is to help those 1-2 years younger get a feel for where kids they have played with/against are going. Accurately assessing how and where your kid might fit in (if at all) is the first crucial step to take. The scholarship amounts are well known, and BTW, 50% is not uncommon for kids playing Div1. How people use/interpret this is up to them.

Absolutely a rubbish statement that is clearly intended to sell that next generation the fantasys. The other poster was spot on. The numbers are the numbers. 9.9 is 9.9. That is the maximum a program can give. When do your research you will learn that every program is not fully funded so many don't even have the money to give. By the way, included in that 9.9 number is any academic money a player might get. That money counts against the total. The only thing that doesn't count is financial aid. A lot of parents like to give you % number when talk about their child's soccer success but few will actually tell you how much was related to their academic prowess. While it does pay that family's tuition bill (which is a good thing) no one but that family has any way of drawing any sort of accurate conclusion from the commitment posting. For all anyone knows the 50% is 90% merit money and only 10% athletic money and while your kid may be comparable on a soccer field you have no way of knowing if they are even in the same realm academically.

This encapsulates the real crux of the discussion. As one poster basically noted, commitment lists are used to sell the middle school age groups on the idea of playing in college what they don't say is what it costs now to get there nor how little the true pay off is. The fact that the costs have risen so sharply just makes the whole picture obscene.

[Unregistered]

BTDT, at least have the decency to answer the questions posed to you.

Here is another very clear, direct question. Given that the end game is the thing for you, and not the process, what outcome DO you think is adequate to justify the money?

And another one. We never went to Disney. Why did you go, or to CASL, or the Orange Bowl? Was there a gun to your head?

[Unregistered]

BTDT, as usual you did not respond to any of the questions asked of you. What is your gripe? Are you upset that even with a very top player you are not going to make out on the deal even with a hefty scholarship to a great D1 school? The alleged dilemma you pose does not apply to most club players. For the relatively small group for which it does apply, giving you some latitude on how big that group is, how many at that very level don't know what they are doing? You're not claiming that players on B club teams are spending that much or the teams at the top of MAPLE these days, right? Your 30 K example included a very top club playing ENCL, Reg 1, going to tournaments like Disney, doing ODP all the way to national ODP, and private cello lessons. Saying that there are 5 a year that fit that category is an exaggeration, so who in the heck are you talking about? Obviously yourself. So take your bow and be done with it. Or how about a full scholarship plus 250K a year as a bonus stipend. Would that do it for you???

Different poster. You must be dumber than **** because the answers you are complaining about not being there are all right there. You seriously think the average socccer family is only spending a couple thousand a year now? It costs me more to drive to practice than you claim it costs you a year. My kids are with a lower level club, not some DAP club. The fees are a little more reasonable but I drive a greater distance. The amount of travel is pretty much right on target with the budget. I'm figuring I'll spend right around 10 large this year and I am sweating it.

[Unregistered]

Different poster. You must be dumber than **** because the answers you are complaining about not being there are all right there. You seriously think the average socccer family is only spending a couple thousand a year now? It costs me more to drive to practice than you claim it costs you a year. My kids are with a lower level club, not some DAP club. The fees are a little more reasonable but I drive a greater distance. The amount of travel is pretty much right on target with the budget. I'm figuring I'll spend right around 10 large this year and I am sweating it.

You are not a different poster, and frankly, a lot more folks than me are sick of your antics. So why are you on your "lower club" agreeing to to pay "10 large"? And why are you agreeing to pay "30 large"??? Why do you go to Disney? And there was no answer to what outcome in your/his opinion would justify the cost!!! All of that research, quoting a bunch of posts together to try to drive home your point, completely distorted of course as usual. And I totally agreed with the guy that said even more players would go for D3 if more walk-ons were given a serious shot.

[Unregistered]

BTDT, at least have the decency to answer the questions posed to you.

Here is another very clear, direct question. Given that the end game is the thing for you, and not the process, what outcome DO you think is adequate to justify the money?

And another one. We never went to Disney. Why did you go, or to CASL, or the Orange Bowl? Was there a gun to your head?

Aren't you the one whose kid went D3? How did Orange work out for you? Did going to that tournament get them anywhere special or were you like the other fools who bought the party line who were left with nothing but an expensive weekend to talk about.

[Unregistered]

You are not a different poster, and frankly, a lot more folks than me are sick of your antics. So why are you on your "lower club" agreeing to to pay "10 large"? And why are you agreeing to pay "30 large"??? Why do you go to Disney? And there was no answer to what outcome in your/his opinion would justify the cost!!! All of that research, quoting a bunch of posts together to try to drive home your point, completely distorted of course as usual. And I totally agreed with the guy that said even more players would go for D3 if more walk-ons were given a serious shot.

Don't know about the other guy but I am in this about a year or so more until I see a little better whether my little rug rat might amount to anything special. If not we are done with all of this.

[Unregistered]

Aren't you the one whose kid went D3? How did Orange work out for you? Did going to that tournament get them anywhere special or were you like the other fools who bought the party line who were left with nothing but an expensive weekend to talk about.

We didn't go to the Orange Bowl!!! We didn't go to Disney or CASL or Phoenix!!!

And my kid is somewhere special, thank you. And if we had gone to Disney and had a good time, so what???

Please answer. What outcome will justify the money for YOU? Half D1 ride? Full ride? Full ride plus European contract? Nike commercial? Please, answer instead of posing like you are so worried about everyone else. There are some relatively smart people among the rest of us. Please, tell us YOUR story. Tell us how you are going to make all the same mistakes playing the "endgame" that you did on the first go round. You embarrass yourself here every single day.

[Unregistered]

You are not a different poster, and frankly, a lot more folks than me are sick of your antics. So why are you on your "lower club" agreeing to to pay "10 large"? And why are you agreeing to pay "30 large"??? Why do you go to Disney? And there was no answer to what outcome in your/his opinion would justify the cost!!! All of that research, quoting a bunch of posts together to try to drive home your point, completely distorted of course as usual. And I totally agreed with the guy that said even more players would go for D3 if more walk-ons were given a serious shot.

Antics? You have no idea who I am and your supposition is wrong. You ever think of explaining what your actual position is instead of just trying to contradict everything you don't like? To tell you the truth, it is not real clear what you are trying to support only that you do not like BTDT. Since I am not him you actually come across quite foolishly. You seriously can't actually believe that it is only costing the average soccer family a couple of thousand dollars a year at this point can you? Personally I think the whole club soccer culture has gotten way out of control and no one steping back to question why the clubs are having us do half of what they have us do. The difference between us is I have no problem with you spending what ever you want to spend on club soccer. It is your time and money so as far as I am concerned you can do what ever the heck you want. What galls me is people like you want to minimize and normalize what is actually going on. I don't know why you want to do that but I personally think that it is important to strike a balance and point out that everyone doesn't see the world of club soccer the way that you do. It is not antics, it is offering a different perspect. If you don't share the perspective that is fine that is why you have forums to discuss such things. It would just be nice if you offered something rational in response instead of the stupidity you normally put out.