Straight ECNL Answers

[Unregistered]

The problem with threads like these is that the minute someone disagrees with someone else bashing begins. If you look at roster size and substitution rules you know playing time will not be equal. You also should know if 18 is the max roster size for a game and there are more than 18 on the team, some kids won't play. This is top level competitive soccer-clubs, teams, players want to win. That's what they are selling. Families with realistic expectations and an understanding of their players place on the team from the onset are more likely to have a positive experience that those pdsmilies with unrealistic expectations. Like anything else you will find satisfied and dissatisfied CuSTOMERS.

Thanks Coach or DOC.

What nonsense. This is a closed shop, there are only a limited number of teams allowed in the league, and a limited number of players who can participate do to many factors, including the cost. And players can't play? They pay to sit?

Disatisfied customers in other markets are free to go elswhere, but in this case, they are very limited. In addition, this is a market for a child's activity completely controlled and regulated by adults for their own benefit. I am hear to tell you that the soccer played is not any more remarkable than what you will find in other leagues and competitions. You have been sold on the idea that it is some kind of " elite" environment , in order to justify the cost, and control that is the status quo. A " postitive experience " for a child would not include discrimination, selectivity, and all the drama , tension and stress that situations like this add.

You want a real elite league? Open it up to everyone, every team. Start with local playoffs, then move out of state. Lower the cost to encourage more participation by all children.

That's' what used to exist, before the money changers and ego driven parents started driving the bus. But it wasn't good enough. You can't have Mia compete with the great unwashed , can you? You can't have the great unwashed take way her chance for " exposure" to College coaches. Can't happen.

[Unregistered]

I'm actually a parent of a non-ecnl player, not a coach or doc. The point is that as consumers, we need to know what you are buying before purchase. How can you think that only a coach or doc understands substitution rules and roster size? If you sign your kid up for a team with 20 players and max roster size at a game is 18 -do you honestly think 2 aren't sitting the game out? And btw MAPLE has the same rules allowing for more than 18 on a roster but only 18 allowed to be rostered for any given game.

[Unregistered]

I'm actually a parent of a non-ecnl player, not a coach or doc. The point is that as consumers, we need to know what you are buying before purchase. How can you think that only a coach or doc understands substitution rules and roster size? If you sign your kid up for a team with 20 players and max roster size at a game is 18 -do you honestly think 2 aren't sitting the game out? And btw MAPLE has the same rules allowing for more than 18 on a roster but only 18 allowed to be rostered for any given game.

With any product, satisfaction is truly not known until a certain amount of time. When the novelty wears off, if you will. The dynamics of a team sport over the course of one of more seasons can completely change an opinion.

Case in point. How many people that purcahse an automobilr will want to buy the same one again if they had the choice ? And that actaully is not even close to thinking about the variables, personalities, and physical and mental demands of participating in a team sport. And children are constantly changing, mentally and physically.Children vary within their own families, in regards to the personalities , somewhat influenced by their birth order.

So may variables. The stress for children of these types of competitions can not be underestimated.

[Unregistered]

This is top level competitive soccer-clubs, teams, players want to win. That's what they are selling.

No. At least at U16+, what ECNL clubs are primarily selling is college recruiting exposure. I think most ECNL clubs are pretty good about this and make sure every player in the roster gets to play enough events/games to get good exposure.

[Unregistered]

So I see the discussion/bashing has moved over here. How quaint.

All the red herrings surface yet again.

To the last couple of posters and the one asking "serious" questions about U13s...

Your critiques about ECNL teams apply to your own teams (assuming you are with some type of Reg 1, NEP, MAPLE team). Bigger rosters (more than 18) are allowed for all of the older age teams.

Some of these teams also travel quite a bit. Ever heard of the NEFC U10 and U11 teams traveling to places like Arizona. I know that one doesn't require air travel or hotels, but still...

And so your teams don't want to win? Your teams have no issues ever with playing time? Your teams don't have a top tier of players who rarely come out, another group who play a lot, and some kids who sometimes may feel shorted? Isn't playing time one of the universal complaints in ALL youth sports, period??? So your club has never gone to a tournament where some of the players and/or parents were disappointed or had a gripe??? You can come on here with a straight face and say all of these issues are unique to the big, bad ECNL system? And your teams/clubs don't sell the college dream in the least???

My guess is that if we drew the line at ECNL and Reg 1 teams, in terms of praising them as the places to be with generally good results, that these threads wouldn't keep reproducing and wouldn't be filled with so many lies. And, to quote someone else, the funny thing is that no one from the ECNL side has claimed that really good non-ECNL teams can't accomplish similar goals.

The hallmark features of resentment, an incredibly powerful negative fuel, are feeling wounded, one down, on the inferiority end of an inferiority/superiority dynamic, and feeling absolutely impotent to effect change in the situation. Another key clinical feature is inverting the value system so that what is desired or most desirable is derided as worthless or worse if one can't have it. These threads are textbook, worthy of a full year college or graduate level course.

[Unregistered]

With any product, satisfaction is truly not known until a certain amount of time. When the novelty wears off, if you will. The dynamics of a team sport over the course of one of more seasons can completely change an opinion.

Case in point. How many people that purcahse an automobilr will want to buy the same one again if they had the choice ? And that actaully is not even close to thinking about the variables, personalities, and physical and mental demands of participating in a team sport. And children are constantly changing, mentally and physically.Children vary within their own families, in regards to the personalities , somewhat influenced by their birth order.

So may variables. The stress for children of these types of competitions can not be underestimated.

Let's take the automobile analogy a littler further. This ECNL scenario is like buying car, being forced to fly out of state to pick it up and then not being allowed to drive it home. What kind of idiot would buy another car from that dealership?

[Unregistered]

Let's take the automobile analogy a littler further. This ECNL scenario is like buying car, being forced to fly out of state to pick it up and then not being allowed to drive it home. What kind of idiot would buy another car from that dealership?

Not even close. You really don't have a clue about ECNL. It's not for everyone. Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you join. There are a number of choices out there that are just as good, will get you kid exposure(if the kid is good enough) and presen topportunities to play and train at a competitive level.

Do yourself, and more importantly your daughter(s) and don't play ECNL.

[Unregistered]

The problem with threads like these is that the minute someone disagrees with someone else bashing begins. If you look at roster size and substitution rules you know playing time will not be equal. You also should know if 18 is the max roster size for a game and there are more than 18 on the team, some kids won't play. This is top level competitive soccer-clubs, teams, players want to win. That's what they are selling. Families with realistic expectations and an understanding of their players place on the team from the onset are more likely to have a positive experience that those pdsmilies with unrealistic expectations. Like anything else you will find satisfied and dissatisfied CuSTOMERS.

The only part that I might debate with you is you do not necessarily know who the team is going to bring and how that might effect your child's playing time. We are not novices and do understand how this works but we got surprised when the team added 2 more players at my daughter's position. This wasn't a tryout situation. This was just poof, they were there. We never got any indication that the coach was unhappy about our daughter's play and she never got any feedback that she was lacking. The coach is a big recruiter and these kids obviously were attracted to the allure of his ECNL sales pitch. The problem I have is now we are basically stuck in a situation where everyone is expecting to see big minutes and we either have to suck it up or leave.

[Unregistered]

This ECNL v Non ECNL argument has gone on way too long. Who cares which is better. Each family needs to make their own decision and everyone else needs to give it a rest. Do your homework and make a decision and leave everyone else alone. Those ECNL proponents need to shut up and let their kids play and vice versa. Enjoy the time you have with your child because in a blink it will be gone.
From an ECNL parent.

[Unregistered]

OP back again. This thread has been somewhat hijacked as I had hoped that it wouldn't be. For those hell bent on attacking the ECNL, can you just stay on the other thread? I certainly can appreciate your dislike of the league. But there are many parents who have daughters in the league and could use non-venomous advice, feedback etc. Please respect that.

[Unregistered]

So I see the discussion/bashing has moved over here. How quaint.

All the red herrings surface yet again.

To the last couple of posters and the one asking "serious" questions about U13s...

Your critiques about ECNL teams apply to your own teams (assuming you are with some type of Reg 1, NEP, MAPLE team). Bigger rosters (more than 18) are allowed for all of the older age teams.

Some of these teams also travel quite a bit. Ever heard of the NEFC U10 and U11 teams traveling to places like Arizona. I know that one doesn't require air travel or hotels, but still...

And so your teams don't want to win? Your teams have no issues ever with playing time? Your teams don't have a top tier of players who rarely come out, another group who play a lot, and some kids who sometimes may feel shorted? Isn't playing time one of the universal complaints in ALL youth sports, period??? So your club has never gone to a tournament where some of the players and/or parents were disappointed or had a gripe??? You can come on here with a straight face and say all of these issues are unique to the big, bad ECNL system? And your teams/clubs don't sell the college dream in the least???

My guess is that if we drew the line at ECNL and Reg 1 teams, in terms of praising them as the places to be with generally good results, that these threads wouldn't keep reproducing and wouldn't be filled with so many lies. And, to quote someone else, the funny thing is that no one from the ECNL side has claimed that really good non-ECNL teams can't accomplish similar goals.

The hallmark features of resentment, an incredibly powerful negative fuel, are feeling wounded, one down, on the inferiority end of an inferiority/superiority dynamic, and feeling absolutely impotent to effect change in the situation. Another key clinical feature is inverting the value system so that what is desired or most desirable is derided as worthless or worse if one can't have it. These threads are textbook, worthy of a full year college or graduate level course.

Nice try Doctor.

The problem with your assessment is that you assume that some of the people posting on this subject fit into the narrow band that you have set forth. It might surprise you , and possiblly educate you outside the classroom if you had as much exposure to the world of youth soccer as other people may have. Having a child play, or several children play is all well and good. But beyond that, what is your exposure to the rest of the children participating ? Let's start with how many youth games you watch, or are a part of , in any given year, and at what levels? And over what length of time, years? Theories, they are great, until reality sneaks up and makes them worthless.

[Unregistered]

Nice try Doctor.

The problem with your assessment is that you assume that some of the people posting on this subject fit into the narrow band that you have set forth. It might surprise you , and possiblly educate you outside the classroom if you had as much exposure to the world of youth soccer as other people may have. Having a child play, or several children play is all well and good. But beyond that, what is your exposure to the rest of the children participating ? Let's start with how many youth games you watch, or are a part of , in any given year, and at what levels? And over what length of time, years? Theories, they are great, until reality sneaks up and makes them worthless.

Thank you. I have been waiting for someone to tell that turkey what you just told him for about a year.

[Unregistered]

OP back again. This thread has been somewhat hijacked as I had hoped that it wouldn't be. For those hell bent on attacking the ECNL, can you just stay on the other thread? I certainly can appreciate your dislike of the league. But there are many parents who have daughters in the league and could use non-venomous advice, feedback etc. Please respect that.

The ECNL is not getting bashed here and you are doing yourselves a disservice by thinking it is. Thinking that way says that you refuse any feedback and that ends up inviting some of the real nasty stuff that no one wants to read. No situation is perfect. ECNL. Non ECNL, they all have their pros and cons. The bottom line is it is comes down to fit. If you keep the discussion fair and balanced it can be productive and help those who might want the ECNL better under why they might want it but if you are like so many and just expect parents to roll over and wet themselves then what you will get is just empty rhetoric. That is what gets bashed.

[Unregistered]

Nice try Doctor.

The problem with your assessment is that you assume that some of the people posting on this subject fit into the narrow band that you have set forth. It might surprise you , and possiblly educate you outside the classroom if you had as much exposure to the world of youth soccer as other people may have. Having a child play, or several children play is all well and good. But beyond that, what is your exposure to the rest of the children participating ? Let's start with how many youth games you watch, or are a part of , in any given year, and at what levels? And over what length of time, years? Theories, they are great, until reality sneaks up and makes them worthless.

I see at least one person liked your post because of its critical, dismissive tone, but really, you didn't say anything. What demographic do you think I'm missing? I doubt the town soccer folks are that interested in ECNL either way. What exactly are you disagreeing with? And btw, resentment exists in all of us, to varying degrees. It's an unavoidable human emotion, like anger, sadness, happiness, etc.

And yes, I've had a lot of exposure to youth soccer, at various levels and in a variety of roles.

[Unregistered]

I see at least one person liked your post because of its critical, dismissive tone, but really, you didn't say anything. What demographic do you think I'm missing? I doubt the town soccer folks are that interested in ECNL either way. What exactly are you disagreeing with? And btw, resentment exists in all of us, to varying degrees. It's an unavoidable human emotion, like anger, sadness, happiness, etc.

And yes, I've had a lot of exposure to youth soccer, at various levels and in a variety of roles.

Well , if you have practice and have been successful keeping emotions out of decisions and value judgements, it makes for a clearer vision of reality.

If you have had true exposure on all levels, you should know better. I don't have an ounce of resentment in these matters. As a matter of fact, each and every year I find more joy in my participation with children playing the game.
Sorry to disagree, but emotional reponses are avoidable to many degrees, but it takes plenty of practice and self disipline.Some people can never acheive that.