The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

The only people who actually want NEFC in the ECNL are the ECNL people. Since NEFC has factually become the regional presence that they have become the ECNL actually NEEDS NEFC to be in their league if they want to have any shot at others continuing to believing their marketing hype that they sit at the top of the youth soccer world. The ECNL's problem is NEFC has clearly figured out that to date THEY haven't needed the ECNL to become a strong regional presence and are not likely to just alter their course because a spot opens up. If you have been following them at all you would know that they are actually betting that the NPL is going to end up being the top of they youth soccer pyramid.

Whether a club publishes their commitment lists or not is really a philosophical issue that not every club agrees with so there are very few conclusions that can be drawn from one club's commitment list, let alone judging an entire league. A big issue that the ECNL crowd never seems to grasp is the non-ECNL clubs, NEFC being a prime example, just don't subscribe to the same belief system when it comes down to recruiting that they do and so their parents don't value a trip to San Diego in the same way that an ECNL parent does. The non-ECNL clubs like NEFC simply approach recruiting in a more targeted way and so their parents just don't believe that sort of trip is necessary in order for their player to end up where they want to go. None of the approaches to recruiting are actually wrong because they all do work.

When you boil all of the rhetoric down there really is no difference between where an ECNL player and non-ECNL player ends up in college because functionally recruiting all comes down to the level of the player's talent. If a club team's roster is comprised of all low level D1 and D3 players pointing to a list of commitments that shows those players going to low level D1 and D3 soccer programs doesn't say anything at all about the quality of the league the team plays in because truthfully those exact sorts of results are being produced by all of the leagues at this point. Those that think that the other leagues are not producing the exact same results simply don't understand the levels of talent in those other leagues. None of the leagues have cornered the talent market and the truth is the talent is pretty evenly dispersed at this point.

Quality spin from NEFC ! Got to laugh. Basically don't play for NEFC if you want to play D1?? Strange message.

[Unregistered]

Quality spin from NEFC ! Got to laugh. Basically don't play for NEFC if you want to play D1?? Strange message.

Reading comprehension must not be your strong suit. Not the message at all. The message was that all of the leagues will deliver a player to the level their talent destines them to go. The big difference is in the club philosophies on how to get there. The ECNL clubs see it one way, the non ECNL clubs see it a different way. Just because a club doesn't pimp their players names out on a commitment list that doesn't mean their players are not committing to colleges that are appropriate for their level of talent. If you don't think that NEFC has players committing to D1 programs then you don't actually know the level of talent they have in their club.

[Unregistered]

The only people who actually want NEFC in the ECNL are the ECNL people. Since NEFC has factually become the regional presence that they have become the ECNL actually NEEDS NEFC to be in their league if they want to have any shot at others continuing to believing their marketing hype that they sit at the top of the youth soccer world. The ECNL's problem is NEFC has clearly figured out that to date THEY haven't needed the ECNL to become a strong regional presence and are not likely to just alter their course because a spot opens up. If you have been following them at all you would know that they are actually betting that the NPL is going to end up being the top of they youth soccer pyramid.

Whether a club publishes their commitment lists or not is really a philosophical issue that not every club agrees with so there are very few conclusions that can be drawn from one club's commitment list, let alone judging an entire league. A big issue that the ECNL crowd never seems to grasp is the non-ECNL clubs, NEFC being a prime example, just don't subscribe to the same belief system when it comes down to recruiting that they do and so their parents don't value a trip to San Diego in the same way that an ECNL parent does. The non-ECNL clubs like NEFC simply approach recruiting in a more targeted way and so their parents just don't believe that sort of trip is necessary in order for their player to end up where they want to go. None of the approaches to recruiting are actually wrong because they all do work.

When you boil all of the rhetoric down there really is no difference between where an ECNL player and non-ECNL player ends up in college because functionally recruiting all comes down to the level of the player's talent. If a club team's roster is comprised of all low level D1 and D3 players pointing to a list of commitments that shows those players going to low level D1 and D3 soccer programs doesn't say anything at all about the quality of the league the team plays in because truthfully those exact sorts of results are being produced by all of the leagues at this point. Those that think that the other leagues are not producing the exact same results simply don't understand the levels of talent in those other leagues. None of the leagues have cornered the talent market and the truth is the talent is pretty evenly dispersed at this point.

They don't value going to CA but they go to Las Vegas? Makes no sense.

None of the leagues have cornered the talent market? Totally false.

Talent is evenly dispersed? Local game standings for the past 2 years prove this wrong.

The NEFC parents need to start thinking, but they better be quick because the college recruiting window is short for good D1 schools. You can't wait til you are 17 to make the move. That's too late. That's why I believe the U17 NEFC team is not visible. The club knows it's late so they have removed the parents and players to a different venue. Actually a smart move on their part...out of sight, out of mind.

[perspective]

Reading comprehension must not be your strong suit. Not the message at all. The message was that all of the leagues will deliver a player to the level their talent destines them to go. The big difference is in the club philosophies on how to get there. The ECNL clubs see it one way, the non ECNL clubs see it a different way. Just because a club doesn't pimp their players names out on a commitment list that doesn't mean their players are not committing to colleges that are appropriate for their level of talent. If you don't think that NEFC has players committing to D1 programs then you don't actually know the level of talent they have in their club.

I agree with your post with one huge exception....."The big difference is in the club philosophies on how to get there. The ECNL clubs see it one way, the non ECNL clubs see it a different way."

There is no big difference in philosophy, and there is no significant difference in how they see things. If there were big differences in approach then NEFC never would have tried to get in ECNL. And the reference to "pimping" players was out of line, out of bounds, and untruthful.

[Unregistered]

If you are talking about NEFC GU17 they were in Las Vegas the weekend of their own tournament playing league games. Not even a NEFC parent, but check out the facts before you bash.

Ok. I will check them out at the PDA tournament. They are going right?

[Unregistered]

The only people who actually want NEFC in the ECNL are the ECNL people. Since NEFC has factually become the regional presence that they have become the ECNL actually NEEDS NEFC to be in their league if they want to have any shot at others continuing to believing their marketing hype that they sit at the top of the youth soccer world. The ECNL's problem is NEFC has clearly figured out that to date THEY haven't needed the ECNL to become a strong regional presence and are not likely to just alter their course because a spot opens up. If you have been following them at all you would know that they are actually betting that the NPL is going to end up being the top of they youth soccer pyramid.

Whether a club publishes their commitment lists or not is really a philosophical issue that not every club agrees with so there are very few conclusions that can be drawn from one club's commitment list, let alone judging an entire league. A big issue that the ECNL crowd never seems to grasp is the non-ECNL clubs, NEFC being a prime example, just don't subscribe to the same belief system when it comes down to recruiting that they do and so their parents don't value a trip to San Diego in the same way that an ECNL parent does. The non-ECNL clubs like NEFC simply approach recruiting in a more targeted way and so their parents just don't believe that sort of trip is necessary in order for their player to end up where they want to go. None of the approaches to recruiting are actually wrong because they all do work.

When you boil all of the rhetoric down there really is no difference between where an ECNL player and non-ECNL player ends up in college because functionally recruiting all comes down to the level of the player's talent. If a club team's roster is comprised of all low level D1 and D3 players pointing to a list of commitments that shows those players going to low level D1 and D3 soccer programs doesn't say anything at all about the quality of the league the team plays in because truthfully those exact sorts of results are being produced by all of the leagues at this point. Those that think that the other leagues are not producing the exact same results simply don't understand the levels of talent in those other leagues. None of the leagues have cornered the talent market and the truth is the talent is pretty evenly dispersed at this point.

Lol

You really don't believe any of this do you?

[Unregistered]

The only reason NEFC is getting good results is because all the quality tems are in the ECNL. NEFC is a very good club but they are stuck winning thevJV league. Not bad but really??

What would they be doing against the 12 regional ECNL teams? Maybe 6-6

[Unregistered]

The only reason NEFC is getting good results is because all the quality tems are in the ECNL. NEFC is a very good club but they are stuck winning thevJV league. Not bad but really??

What would they be doing against the 12 regional ECNL teams? Maybe 6-6

Don't forget that last summer, NEFC beat a host of top ECNL team en-route to a 3rd place finish at Nationals. They tied the team that eventually won (which I believe was an ECNL team), so my guess is they would do better than you think.

[Unregistered]

That's 1 team.

[Unregistered]

The only people who actually want NEFC in the ECNL are the ECNL people. Since NEFC has factually become the regional presence that they have become the ECNL actually NEEDS NEFC to be in their league if they want to have any shot at others continuing to believing their marketing hype that they sit at the top of the youth soccer world. The ECNL's problem is NEFC has clearly figured out that to date THEY haven't needed the ECNL to become a strong regional presence and are not likely to just alter their course because a spot opens up. If you have been following them at all you would know that they are actually betting that the NPL is going to end up being the top of they youth soccer pyramid.

Whether a club publishes their commitment lists or not is really a philosophical issue that not every club agrees with so there are very few conclusions that can be drawn from one club's commitment list, let alone judging an entire league. A big issue that the ECNL crowd never seems to grasp is the non-ECNL clubs, NEFC being a prime example, just don't subscribe to the same belief system when it comes down to recruiting that they do and so their parents don't value a trip to San Diego in the same way that an ECNL parent does. The non-ECNL clubs like NEFC simply approach recruiting in a more targeted way and so their parents just don't believe that sort of trip is necessary in order for their player to end up where they want to go. None of the approaches to recruiting are actually wrong because they all do work.

When you boil all of the rhetoric down there really is no difference between where an ECNL player and non-ECNL player ends up in college because functionally recruiting all comes down to the level of the player's talent. If a club team's roster is comprised of all low level D1 and D3 players pointing to a list of commitments that shows those players going to low level D1 and D3 soccer programs doesn't say anything at all about the quality of the league the team plays in because truthfully those exact sorts of results are being produced by all of the leagues at this point. Those that think that the other leagues are not producing the exact same results simply don't understand the levels of talent in those other leagues. None of the leagues have cornered the talent market and the truth is the talent is pretty evenly dispersed at this point.

Thoughtful post. I'd simply concede that the ECNL has more talent per capita and offers maximum exposure--and that if those issues are critical for a player, then it's the place to be, other things being equal.

P and others: Not sure why what a club did a few years ago indicates its approach going forward. A few years ago, a club might reasonably have feared that joining the ECNL would be necessary to continue to attract and retain top players and field top teams. Obviously, that has been shown not to be the case, to put the point mildly.

Nothing seems to bother ECNL people more than the possibility that many non-ECNL parents really don't care about joining the ECNL. Some us with very good players on top teams would actually prefer that our non-ECNL club not join, if that were (doubtfully) to become an option. This doesn't mean that we would leave over the issue. It simply means that we prefer relatively less travel (and cost) and a more targeted approach to recruiting. And this is not to begrudge ECNL parents for being on the road they're on, given their own circumstances and priorities.

[perspective]

Thoughtful post. I'd simply concede that the ECNL has more talent per capita and offers maximum exposure--and that if those issues are critical for a player, then it's the place to be, other things being equal.

P and others: Not sure why what a club did a few years ago indicates its approach going forward. A few years ago, a club might reasonably have feared that joining the ECNL would be necessary to continue to attract and retain top players and field top teams. Obviously, that has been shown not to be the case, to put the point mildly.

Nothing seems to bother ECNL people more than the possibility that many non-ECNL parents really don't care about joining the ECNL. Some us with very good players on top teams would actually prefer that our non-ECNL club not join, if that were (doubtfully) to become an option. This doesn't mean that we would leave over the issue. It simply means that we prefer relatively less travel (and cost) and a more targeted approach to recruiting. And this is not to begrudge ECNL parents for being on the road they're on, given their own circumstances and priorities.

You know that I am sympathetic towards and respectful of your posting. I appreciate when we disagree and even when you try to call me out, so to speak, because I do believe you are attempting to contribute on the level. You have charged that my performance in your view deteriorates when we get into these areas (and none of the times have I initiated into these areas because I really have no interest in them). At any rate, perhaps you might consider that the same happens to you. Your one area of commonality with our friend apparently is that your kid or kids aren't with ECNL (and presumably are doing quite well regardless). That's fine by me. I never argued kids can't make it other ways, whatever that means. But you show a sensitivity in this area and perhaps share a belief that the ECNL folks are wildly trying to sway minds on TS. Back in the day, very pre-ECNL, I saw some of that with the Scorps. Ironically enough, BB and PM were right in the thick of that. To be honest, I've hardly ever seen it with Stars, who I think probably have been told to stay away and otherwise have been catch-22ed by the allegations of their presence so if they ever do post that's taken as some great evidence when volume-wise it is nothing.

Do you have any evidence that NEFC stopped applying to ECNL? When did that occur? And in any event, do you truly believe NEFC has a radically different philosophy regarding youth soccer than Stars (or Scorps)? Do you truly believe families with the top NEFC teams (who apparently are strongly encouraged to also do things like ODP) are comparatively benefiting from substantial savings? If you're open to a real and honest discussion, then let's have one.

And btw, one specific area where I think your own bias is showing is the speculation that ECNL families care how non-ECNL families feel. I've seen NO evidence of that, unless you count them objecting to being bashed once in a while. Is there ever some effort of a friend to get a friend to join her team, or something similar between close parents who are a little overboard? I'm sure that happens regularly. But that dynamic is not specific to any clubs or any leagues. That's been happening forever.

[Unregistered]

...But you show a sensitivity in this area and perhaps share a belief that the ECNL folks are wildly trying to sway minds on TS....

Do you have any evidence that NEFC stopped applying to ECNL? When did that occur? And in any event, do you truly believe NEFC has a radically different philosophy regarding youth soccer than Stars (or Scorps)? Do you truly believe families with the top NEFC teams (who apparently are strongly encouraged to also do things like ODP) are comparatively benefiting from substantial savings? If you're open to a real and honest discussion, then let's have one.

And btw, one specific area where I think your own bias is showing is the speculation that ECNL families care how non-ECNL families feel. I've seen NO evidence of that....

1) I do believe that there is mainly parent-driven ECNL hype here. They get it from the ECNL clubs. Since some of us non-ECNLers have "tipped our caps" about the league's relative superiority (not sure why cap tipping generally is important to you), one would think ECNLers could just go off and be part of the greatest.

2) I have no evidence what NEFC execs are now doing re the ECNL. Do you? Or were you going off of what is widely believed about the situation a few years ago? Anyway, I've been clear that regardless of what the club execs are doing, some of us would prefer not to join the ECNL.

3) I haven't heard NEFC coaches promoting ODP, even though quite a few girls there participate.

4) I have no specific idea about "substantial savings" due to not being in the ECNL. I've merely got common sense. A trip to San Diego would seem considerably more expensive than driving to, say, NJ or Bethesda. Maybe ECNL parents are specially connected to airlines or travel agents and can get super deals not available to the general public. (Merely knowing a travel schedule well in advance does not reduce the cost of air travel to almost the level of car travel.) But maybe, as some suggest, the ECNL truly is the best of all possible worlds--and involves no downside trade offs of any significance. What "honest discussion" would you want with me about this and why, since you claim to be a disinterested, uninvolved party?

5) My view is let the ECNLers go be the greatest, whether in their own minds or in some reality. I thought we had agreed to disagree about what is currently the main source of hype and instigation re that league. You've never read me hyping NEFC, the NYNPL, or anything else. While I'm satisfied overall with our situation and course, I always acknowledge that there are other, no less reasonable ways to go about things (and that if I were satisfied overall with an ECNL team, I would stay that course). Where's my "bias" in this? I'm not one who foolishly believes or proclaims that a certain league has a near monopoly of the talent, somehow transforms a player, or is almost the only venue for strong teams and players to be seen and recruited.

I hope I have satisfactorily addressed your many questions and concerns. More importantly, I hope you've been able to enjoy this very nice day.

[perspective]

1) I do believe that there is mainly parent-driven ECNL hype here. They get it from the ECNL clubs. Since some of us non-ECNLers have "tipped our caps" about the league's relative superiority (not sure why cap tipping generally is important to you), one would think ECNLers could just go off and be part of the greatest.

2) I have no evidence what NEFC execs are now doing re the ECNL. Do you? Or were you going off of what is widely believed about the situation a few years ago? Anyway, I've been clear that regardless of what the club execs are doing, some of us would prefer not to join the ECNL.

3) I haven't heard NEFC coaches promoting ODP, even though quite a few girls there participate.

4) I have no specific idea about "substantial savings" due to not being in the ECNL. I've merely got common sense. A trip to San Diego would seem considerably more expensive than driving to, say, NJ or Bethesda. Maybe ECNL parents are specially connected to airlines or travel agents and can get super deals not available to the general public. (Merely knowing a travel schedule well in advance does not reduce the cost of air travel to almost the level of car travel.) But maybe, as some suggest, the ECNL truly is the best of all possible worlds--and involves no downside trade offs of any significance. What "honest discussion" would you want with me about this and why, since you claim to be a disinterested, uninvolved party?

5) My view is let the ECNLers go be the greatest, whether in their own minds or in some reality. I thought we had agreed to disagree about what is currently the main source of hype and instigation re that league. You've never read me hyping NEFC, the NYNPL, or anything else. While I'm satisfied overall with our situation and course, I always acknowledge that there are other, no less reasonable ways to go about things (and that if I were satisfied overall with an ECNL team, I would stay that course). Where's my "bias" in this? I'm not one who foolishly believes or proclaims that a certain league has a near monopoly of the talent, somehow transforms a player, or is almost the only venue for strong teams and players to be seen and recruited.

I hope I have satisfactorily addressed your many questions and concerns. More importantly, I hope you've been able to enjoy this very nice day.

You chose to read and respond in a fairly narrow fashion. As you sometimes say to me, you're smarter than that.

1) I don't recall that we agreed to disagree about who started what or who is punching back more or whatever. But I guess we do (wildly) disagree about that. Every time a thread finally dies down and then a new one like Propaganda Wars pops up I don't see that ECNL parents are the ones initiating. "Tipping caps" is a phrase and I never suggested anyone do that about a league...but more so when a club and more often a team or individual accomplishes something that relatively speaking is pretty cool regardless of who it is. I think you know who that primarily has been directed to, and I hope I don't need to go further there.

2) No, I don't have inside info about when or if NEFC stopped going for ECNL. That wasn't the point for me. The claim has been made that NEFC enjoys some wildly different philosophical orientation with respect to club soccer. I question that, but if true would love to hear more about it.

3) You know darn well that someone has made a HUGE issue out of some clubs discouraging ODP and the lament (as though there is real concern for the rival families) that kids aren't maxing out on all of their "path" options available to them. My point is that would cost more money, so that would have to be factored into some relative cost analysis. Additionally, one would need to understand that if NEFC really does do recruiting differently then how does the add-on of ODP impact that. Can one still claim a substantial difference or would things be pretty even at least at that point?

4) See #3. And there has been talk the last couple of days about a NEFC older team being out West somewhere. Maybe that's not true. I don't claim to be an expert on the relative travel schedules, but in any case I doubt many families are making their decisions ultimately based upon variable costs. In this demographic, I would think giving up more time and flexibility might be more relevant, or in the case of the boys with DAP, giving up something like HS soccer.

5) See #1. While you may have enough integrity to be technically fair in these discussions clearly you are not affiliated in a way to give any benefit of the doubt to the other side. Other than a few posts here and there that no one would take seriously, I just don't see it.

Part of what I think I am learning is that we (and others) are seeing these things from very different perspectives, and perhaps that is where me not having a kid who could be potentially in the crosshairs between these clubs is a positive or a negative, again depending upon point of view. I am not nearly as focused on the leagues, and maybe that's why I don't see how the now ECNL clubs were motivated to hugely hype beginning several years ago or in 2009 or 2010 or whatever. I just see the clubs, including in their historical contexts. Back then Stars and Scorps undebatedly had the strongest clubs on the girls side and generally ran the table at state cup (or state events) from U11 through U18 or U19. So they didn't need to join or create ECNL to "hype," and maybe that's why I don't question their motives at least in that narrow regard (which is different from whether they are all great people or whatever). Presumably there were people who believed it would actually be good for elite level players and for training. It did roughly parallel the DAP stuff about development and not too many games relative to training and the whole 9 yards. So that's why I don't get stuck on the so-called "alphabet soup" deal. The clubs were what they were and now are what they are. Scorps stumbled but not necessarily because of anything to do with ECNL. Stars have maintained. NEFC rose, for whatever reason (and in my view by ironically given what is suggested here on TS by being a big marketing and acquisition company). Ans so you could argue that ECNL has hurt those clubs, but my point is that even if ECNL died tomorrow Stars would still be a top club.

[Unregistered]

Thoughtful post. I'd simply concede that the ECNL has more talent per capita and offers maximum exposure--and that if those issues are critical for a player, then it's the place to be, other things being equal

Why would you concede that point? At least around here there is no evidence to support that at all. My bet is that you know as well the next guy that those loons have been telling everyone they are the best for the past several years and there isn't a single shred of evidence out there to support those claims. Placating them just so Perspective shuts up gets old. He really doesn't know squat about anything that is going on right now.

[Unregistered]

You chose to read and respond in a fairly narrow fashion. As you sometimes say to me, you're smarter than that.

1) I don't recall that we agreed to disagree about who started what or who is punching back more or whatever. But I guess we do (wildly) disagree about that. Every time a thread finally dies down and then a new one like Propaganda Wars pops up I don't see that ECNL parents are the ones initiating. "Tipping caps" is a phrase and I never suggested anyone do that about a league...but more so when a club and more often a team or individual accomplishes something that relatively speaking is pretty cool regardless of who it is. I think you know who that primarily has been directed to, and I hope I don't need to go further there.

2) No, I don't have inside info about when or if NEFC stopped going for ECNL. That wasn't the point for me. The claim has been made that NEFC enjoys some wildly different philosophical orientation with respect to club soccer. I question that, but if true would love to hear more about it.

3) You know darn well that someone has made a HUGE issue out of some clubs discouraging ODP and the lament (as though there is real concern for the rival families) that kids aren't maxing out on all of their "path" options available to them. My point is that would cost more money, so that would have to be factored into some relative cost analysis. Additionally, one would need to understand that if NEFC really does do recruiting differently then how does the add-on of ODP impact that. Can one still claim a substantial difference or would things be pretty even at least at that point?

4) See #3. And there has been talk the last couple of days about a NEFC older team being out West somewhere. Maybe that's not true. I don't claim to be an expert on the relative travel schedules, but in any case I doubt many families are making their decisions ultimately based upon variable costs. In this demographic, I would think giving up more time and flexibility might be more relevant, or in the case of the boys with DAP, giving up something like HS soccer.

5) See #1. While you may have enough integrity to be technically fair in these discussions clearly you are not affiliated in a way to give any benefit of the doubt to the other side. Other than a few posts here and there that no one would take seriously, I just don't see it.

Part of what I think I am learning is that we (and others) are seeing these things from very different perspectives, and perhaps that is where me not having a kid who could be potentially in the crosshairs between these clubs is a positive or a negative, again depending upon point of view. I am not nearly as focused on the leagues, and maybe that's why I don't see how the now ECNL clubs were motivated to hugely hype beginning several years ago or in 2009 or 2010 or whatever. I just see the clubs, including in their historical contexts. Back then Stars and Scorps undebatedly had the strongest clubs on the girls side and generally ran the table at state cup (or state events) from U11 through U18 or U19. So they didn't need to join or create ECNL to "hype," and maybe that's why I don't question their motives at least in that narrow regard (which is different from whether they are all great people or whatever). Presumably there were people who believed it would actually be good for elite level players and for training. It did roughly parallel the DAP stuff about development and not too many games relative to training and the whole 9 yards. So that's why I don't get stuck on the so-called "alphabet soup" deal. The clubs were what they were and now are what they are. Scorps stumbled but not necessarily because of anything to do with ECNL. Stars have maintained. NEFC rose, for whatever reason (and in my view by ironically given what is suggested here on TS by being a big marketing and acquisition company). Ans so you could argue that ECNL has hurt those clubs, but my point is that even if ECNL died tomorrow Stars would still be a top club.

Apparently, I'm not nearly as smart as you think-- since I really couldn't follow all or even most of that. I can only speak for myself, my views, and what I've observed. I have no idea what you found objectionable "narrow," let alone objectionable, in my comments.

(You can review the threads to see that we did agree to disagree on the point in question.)