The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

not at all. i realize there are still a couple strong teams per age group in r1. penn strikers is a great example. that team is awesome. one of the best, most complete girls teams i've ever seen play.

if mass wants teams that can compete with teams of the caliber of the strikers, talent has to consolidate. a team of this level benefits all these players. all one has to do is look at the 19 stars, scorps and rovers, or 18 stars to see the positive impact a team of this level has on college placement for the entire roster. players that wouldn't get a second look on the 3rd best team in the state are committed to college programs. the current u17 kids, ecnl or otherwise, have not consolidated their talent sufficiently to benefit entire rosters.

r1 is nowhere near as strong as it was prior to the ecnl teams, a few of which were typically in the top echelon, withdrawing from the league.

it is self servingly disingenuos to tell players and parents the team they play and practice with doesn't matter in the college process. it does.

[Unregistered]

not at all. i realize there are still a couple strong teams per age group in r1. penn strikers is a great example. that team is awesome. one of the best, most complete girls teams i've ever seen play.

if mass wants teams that can compete with teams of the caliber of the strikers, talent has to consolidate. a team of this level benefits all these players. all one has to do is look at the 19 stars, scorps and rovers, or 18 stars to see the positive impact a team of this level has on college placement for the entire roster. players that wouldn't get a second look on the 3rd best team in the state are committed to college programs. the current u17 kids, ecnl or otherwise, have not consolidated their talent sufficiently to benefit entire rosters.

r1 is nowhere near as strong as it was prior to the ecnl teams, a few of which were typically in the top echelon, withdrawing from the league.

it is self servingly disingenuos to tell players and parents the team they play and practice with doesn't matter in the college process. it does.

No it doesn't matter, you only believe that it does because your club must beat you over the head telling you it does. There is more than ample evidence over the recent years of players from even the lowest level teams going on to play at the D1 level if you are willing to open your eyes and see what actually has happened. If a player has talent and puts the work in to reach that potential and then does their part to then seek them out, the college coaches will find them. It is all on the player and the team actually helps a lot less than is being contstantly portrayed. Simply being a part of a team that plays a national schedule does not automatically mean that a player is something special or destined to play at a particular level in the college game. The way things are divided right now most of that is just about the parent's ability to pay.

[Unregistered]

Here is a list of their destinations to get things started:

Aztecs

Decareau, Casey D Haverhill, MA Georgetown HS LESLEY
Gildein, Lucy M Topsfield, MA Masconomet SACRED HEART
Keroack, Mary M Marblehead, MA Marblehead HS CORNELL


Blackwatch Premier SC

Quintiliani, Brianna D Norwood, MA Norwood HS ROANOKE (Mass resident playing for RI club)


CFC United (Connecticut club)

McCarthy, Kate M Longmeadow, MA Loomis-Chafee BOSTON COLLEGE (Mass resident playing for CT club)


Crusaders United FC

Burke, Caitlin F Duxbury, MA Duxbury HS DARTMOUTH COLLEGE
Flaherty, Siobhan M Braintree, MA Braintree HS ST. ANSELM
Follette, Shana F Plymouth, MA Plymouth North BRYANT
Leahy, Lizzy M Hingham, MA Hingham HS HOLY CROSS
Martyniak, Carley D Foxboro, MA Foxborough HS BABSON


Mass Premier Soccer Renegades

Baker, Mariah, Haverford College
Bates, Andrea Assumption College
Banco, Darcy, Washington University (MO)
Dee, Carly, Colby College
Friday, Samantha, Dickinson College
Heinsohn, Danielle GK Norfolk, MA FAIRLEIGH DICKINSON
Leonard, Stephanie F Framingham MA Framingham HS PROVIDENCE
Newman, Elizabeth, Haverford College
Pierce, Wally, Bates College
Ruggieri, Christina, Washington University (MO) ?
Skagerlind, Jenna D Holden MA Wachusetts HS UMASS
Sweeney, Sarah M Southborough, MA Rivers HIGH POINT


MPS Crusaders

Andrew, Meghan, Babson College
Clooney, Kimberly, Framingham State College
Goldberg, Ariana F East Bridgewater, MA East Bridgewater HS BRYANT
Kelley, Maura, St Anselm College
Kilduff, Lauren, Salem State College
Lipinski, Hayley D Bridgewater, MA Notre Dame MAINE
Matthews, Casey, Stonehill College
Michel, Casandre, Port University
Ryan, Emily, Sacred Heart University
Spiegel, Sydney, Bentley University
Stefanik, Kara, Bates College


Sachems

Favorito, Julia M Winchester, MA Winchester HS MIDDLEBURY
Savoy, Hillary M Winchester, MA Winchester HS NORTHEASTERN


Soccer Domain

Alfonsi, Shaena M Pittsfield, MA Pittsfield HS AMERICAN


Stars of Mass

Berk, Ellery, MIDDLEBURY
Blain, Kailey M Merrimack, NH Merrimack High School GEORGETOWN (NH resident playing for Mass club)
Brock, Hayley F Acton, MA Acton-Boxborough PENN STATE
Desrosiers, Jacquelyn D Providence, RI LaSalle Academy PROVIDENCE (RI resident playing for Mass club)
Devoy, Siobhan F Attleboro, MA Bishop Feehan COLGATE
Farina, Anika, COLORADO
Furlong, Sarah, JOHNS HOPKINS
Garufi, Ericka D Milton, MA Milton HS STONY BROOK
Giglio, Patricia D Acton, MA Acton-Boxborough HOLY CROSS
Harris, Jamie, LASELL
Leon, Beverly F Weymouth, MA Milton COLUMBIA
Mackevicius, Claire, CHICAGO
McSweeney, Shannon D, Stow, MA Rivers YALE
Moschitto, Marina M Andover, MA Brooks DARTMOUTH
Raymond, Rebecca D Lowell MA Lowell HS WHEATON
Remy, Kyle, EMORY
Ronan, Erin GK Millbury, MA Millbury HS ST. PETER'S
Sale, Rebecca D Stow, MA Middlesex BATES
Sisk, Kate M Sudbury, MA Lincoln-Sudbury AMHERST
St. Martin, Alexa D Westford, MA Westford Academy (HS) GEORGETOWN
Vettori, Patrice M Dedham, MA Dedham HS BOSTON COLLEGE
Wingrove, Emily M, MA Nobles BROWN


Western Mass Junior Pioneers

Brochu, Sarah D Wilbraham, MA Minnechaug SOUTHERN CT STATE
Fitzsimmons, Alison D West Springfield, MA Cathedral RHODE ISLAND

Here is a partial list of commitments from the 2010 high school graduation class from a very old thread. This class would have been 18's when the ECNL first started. Notice that the Stars were not the only ones who put players into the college game. Also it should be noted that the Scorpions didn't even have a team in this age group because it imploded at U15.

[Unregistered]

Here is a partial list of commitments from the 2010 high school graduation class from a very old thread. This class would have been 18's when the ECNL first started. Notice that the Stars were not the only ones who put players into the college game. Also it should be noted that the Scorpions didn't even have a team in this age group because it imploded at U15.

Notice that there is no comparison in terms of depth and quality for Stars vs. all the others.

Take the 2011 year with both Stars and Scorps and you will see even greater disparity.

Can a player make it from another team or another level of play? Of course, but odds are better in general from one of the ECNL teams, in part because of bias selection (best players tend to migrate to these teams). Also, there may be other factors at play when a non-ECNL player "makes it," especially to a top-tier school academically and/or athletically. For example, a very strong student from a strong high school may need ECNL less than another. If you are willing to play anywhere then your chances are greater in general. That strategy doesn't always work out since college tends to be about a lot more than the soccer. In terms of quality of schools, and the players actually playing in college at an impact level, you really have to stretch to avoid giving Stars and Scorps their due.

[Unregistered]

The other point to note is that similar or better players from mid to lower level teams don't place as high as they would otherwise. This could be a result of academic results and interests, but soccer pedigree has an impact.

[Unregistered]

To follow up on my post (2 above), it also is worth noting that btdt is often correct about one particular point or even set of points, but he consistently draws the wrong conclusions, partly because of rigidity and/or errors in thinking, and in part because he is determined to make arguments that will tautologically support his decisions.

To take just one example, I think he is absolutely correct that travel and exposure are not as critical as he claims is claimed by his competitors (as I'm not sure very many actually make the claims he claims when he argues). It is wrong, though, to then conclude that there is no merit in playing for Stars or Scorps. Playing with the best generally means you are one of the best, as does being accepted by the clubs playing the highest level available. They players don't play there in general because they are snookered about recruiting and exposure. They play there to compete and train against and with the best players (and good coaches). There are always exceptions, but exceptions are exceptions for a reason....by definition an exception is an exception relative to some more general pattern and most likely way of doing something.

[Unregistered]

not at all. i realize there are still a couple strong teams per age group in r1. penn strikers is a great example. that team is awesome. one of the best, most complete girls teams i've ever seen play.

if mass wants teams that can compete with teams of the caliber of the strikers, talent has to consolidate. a team of this level benefits all these players. all one has to do is look at the 19 stars, scorps and rovers, or 18 stars to see the positive impact a team of this level has on college placement for the entire roster. players that wouldn't get a second look on the 3rd best team in the state are committed to college programs. the current u17 kids, ecnl or otherwise, have not consolidated their talent sufficiently to benefit entire rosters.

r1 is nowhere near as strong as it was prior to the ecnl teams, a few of which were typically in the top echelon, withdrawing from the league.

it is self servingly disingenuos to tell players and parents the team they play and practice with doesn't matter in the college process. it does.

Your theory about "consolidating talent helping the best players" is not proven. It is what leagues like the ECNL want you to believe, but in reality, it always always comes down to the coach. And ECNL doesn't guaranteed good coaching at every age group in a club. If you put 26 of the best players in an area on one team...then a good 10 of these may never see the field...and this is good for those players HOW? Time in a game situation is what makes a better player, in addition to training and coaching. So finding the best coach, with the most successful team for your player is what is the ticket to reaching potential. Frankly, finding a team with a good core 18 on the roster is the best..and having many of these in the area will help many more players reach their potential. If that is with an ECNL club, then all good, but don't compromise if there is a better team that can compete with scorpions and stars, but has a better coach.

[Unregistered]

Your theory about "consolidating talent helping the best players" is not proven. It is what leagues like the ECNL want you to believe, but in reality, it always always comes down to the coach.

it's not about ecnl, although they're currently the strongest teams. it's about the amount of talent available. there is only enough for a couple regional - nationally competitive teams per age group and it assumes and requires a consolidation of talent. when the consolidation happens the two teams place 40 kids in college, most in d1, plus another 15 or so from secondary teams. when it doesn't, there are typically far fewer total girls committing to D1 programs. compare the current u19 group, with talent consolidated at an early age on three teams with the current 18's or 17's, where other than the u18 stars ecnl team, talent has not really consolidated and you should see what i mean.

[Unregistered]

Notice that there is no comparison in terms of depth and quality for Stars vs. all the others.

Take the 2011 year with both Stars and Scorps and you will see even greater disparity.

Can a player make it from another team or another level of play? Of course, but odds are better in general from one of the ECNL teams, in part because of bias selection (best players tend to migrate to these teams). Also, there may be other factors at play when a non-ECNL player "makes it," especially to a top-tier school academically and/or athletically. For example, a very strong student from a strong high school may need ECNL less than another. If you are willing to play anywhere then your chances are greater in general. That strategy doesn't always work out since college tends to be about a lot more than the soccer. In terms of quality of schools, and the players actually playing in college at an impact level, you really have to stretch to avoid giving Stars and Scorps their due.

You are really quite incorrect in your thinking. That 2010 Stars group was a product of its time and everyone on it thought they were headed to a D1 soccer career just like the families that buy into today's ECNL do. That is precisely why they were on the the team, their parent thought it would give their children a leg up getting them to the college level. That team played in Red Bull which was the precusor to the ECNL. There was almost as much hype surrounding that league as there has been for the ECNL. What is important to recognize though is ultimately the decisions that those kids made with respect to their college choice was much more a function of their academic expectations than their soccer expectations. Soccer actually did not make as much of a difference as that group of parents would have originally though. The really humurous thing is is posters like this person above always want to skip over this group and talk about the year that follows because not enough of them went to impressive enough soccer programs. The reality is the kids in that Stars group actually did extremely well and parlayed their soccer into some very prestigous college admissions. The thing about that though is everyone recognized after the fact that they didn't really need to do Red Bull to make those impressive admissions happen. Their parents spent a small fortune and it didn't really matter.

[Unregistered]

You are really quite incorrect in your thinking. That 2010 Stars group was a product of its time and everyone on it thought they were headed to a D1 soccer career just like the families that buy into today's ECNL do. That is precisely why they were on the the team, their parent thought it would give their children a leg up getting them to the college level. That team played in Red Bull which was the precusor to the ECNL. There was almost as much hype surrounding that league as there has been for the ECNL. What is important to recognize though is ultimately the decisions that those kids made with respect to their college choice was much more a function of their academic expectations than their soccer expectations. Soccer actually did not make as much of a difference as that group of parents would have originally though. The really humurous thing is is posters like this person above always want to skip over this group and talk about the year that follows because not enough of them went to impressive enough soccer programs. The reality is the kids in that Stars group actually did extremely well and parlayed their soccer into some very prestigous college admissions. The thing about that though is everyone recognized after the fact that they didn't really need to do Red Bull to make those impressive admissions happen. Their parents spent a small fortune and it didn't really matter.

Assuming of course the play in redbull had nothin to do with the players developing to the level that they eventually developed to.

[Unregistered]

Here is a partial list of commitments from the 2010 high school graduation class from a very old thread. This class would have been 18's when the ECNL first started. Notice that the Stars were not the only ones who put players into the college game. Also it should be noted that the Scorpions didn't even have a team in this age group because it imploded at U15.

And besides that, a lot of these "committed" players never played for these colleges.

[Unregistered]

You are really quite incorrect in your thinking. That 2010 Stars group was a product of its time and everyone on it thought they were headed to a D1 soccer career just like the families that buy into today's ECNL do. That is precisely why they were on the the team, their parent thought it would give their children a leg up getting them to the college level. That team played in Red Bull which was the precusor to the ECNL. There was almost as much hype surrounding that league as there has been for the ECNL. What is important to recognize though is ultimately the decisions that those kids made with respect to their college choice was much more a function of their academic expectations than their soccer expectations. Soccer actually did not make as much of a difference as that group of parents would have originally though. The really humurous thing is is posters like this person above always want to skip over this group and talk about the year that follows because not enough of them went to impressive enough soccer programs. The reality is the kids in that Stars group actually did extremely well and parlayed their soccer into some very prestigous college admissions. The thing about that though is everyone recognized after the fact that they didn't really need to do Red Bull to make those impressive admissions happen. Their parents spent a small fortune and it didn't really matter.

Thanks btdt for providing yet another brilliantly vivid example of your poor thinking. Did it occur to you that those parents got exactly what they expected and more? Only you could turn an incredible overall outcome into proof of something negative about your apparent foes. The next year's group also had very impressive academic admissions, as did the Scorps 2011s. Need I repeat....Harvard, Yale, Georgetown,, BC, UCLA, etc, etc.

[Unregistered]

P.S. Nice job on doing what I said was a real stretch...avoiding giving the Stars and Scorps their due.

And you of all folks critiquing the "consolidation" theme. Here we go with the duplicity again.

[Unregistered]

P.S. Nice job on doing what I said was a real stretch...avoiding giving the Stars and Scorps their due.

And you of all folks critiquing the "consolidation" theme. Here we go with the duplicity again.

This is for the fanatic who keeps repeating "Harvard, Yale, Georgetown,, BC, UCLA, etc, etc." Why does the club or league deserves more credit than the player themselves and their family? Aren't those players are the real star of the story? It was their talent and hardwork after all that earned them those commitments.

[Unregistered]

This is for the fanatic who keeps repeating "Harvard, Yale, Georgetown,, BC, UCLA, etc, etc." Why does the club or league deserves more credit than the player themselves and their family? Aren't those players are the real star of the story? It was their talent and hardwork after all that earned them those commitments.

The only thing that smacks of fanaticism is your abject refusal to give ANY credit to the clubs in question. No amount of data would be enough for you, because your arguments are ENTIRELY about your own agendas. One week you are screaming for consolidation and the next you are condemning it. One week you cry foul that college commitments list are unfair and/or irrelevant, and the next they are key and you twist yourself in a knot to say that the commitments are too academic. The Scorps having the only team to win a regional doesn't count because the U19 year doesn't count. And if your club had "Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, etc" you would be the first person shouting that out in neon lights. Why can't you just be happy with your own choices and tip your cap once in a while? You are a joke and a complete charlatan.