The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

Things have changed since you went through the process. U15 ECNL players are being actively recruited. More than 30 coaches on our sidelines at PDA, similar numbers at SD.

Unofficial visits have taken place, commitments will be made over the summer and fall.

You don't have to believe it but it is true.

Buddy, having coaches on the sideline watching games and doing unofficial visits has been the same for years. Nothing has changed. The timeline advanced several years ago. That is not recruiting. That is coaches watching players and coaches being happy to meet with players who call and set up an appointment, or have their coach call to set up the appointement. Players at U15 and early U16 are NOT getting recruited or getting offers unless they are really something special - ie national pool or regional pool. And no matter what club they are on if they are that good they are going to get recruited because they are the well known player who will have an impact in college. The rest of the girls are being seen and being evaluated. That's all.

Look at the commiment website (I know it is not fully accurate or all inclusive) and see how many 2015 are committed. That is the age you are talking about. I do not recall seeing one of them. The website does not even give an option to sort players by that year.

Look at how many 2014 are committed. There are 92 2014's committed right now. Those are U16 players who just finished their sophomore year. Almost everyone fits into one of three catagories - national team experience, local kid going to the local school or committed to a big time program (which means they are impact players). And btw have you looked at the list of players committing to these top programs? It's a who's who of the soccer world and their experiences are off the chart. Look at how many players a Duke or Notra Dame takes without serious ODP travel or All tournament selection at a major showcase, etc.

Show me where the trend is that the common everyday player on even the Stars or PDA or any club in or out of the ECNL is committed that early. You are seriously fooling yourself and every single person here that you are trying to convince.

Facts are tough to take when they refute your ridiculous assertions.

[Unregistered]

Buddy, having coaches on the sideline watching games and doing unofficial visits has been the same for years. Nothing has changed. The timeline advanced several years ago. That is not recruiting. That is coaches watching players and coaches being happy to meet with players who call and set up an appointment, or have their coach call to set up the appointement. Players at U15 and early U16 are NOT getting recruited or getting offers unless they are really something special - ie national pool or regional pool. And no matter what club they are on if they are that good they are going to get recruited because they are the well known player who will have an impact in college. The rest of the girls are being seen and being evaluated. That's all.

Look at the commiment website (I know it is not fully accurate or all inclusive) and see how many 2015 are committed. That is the age you are talking about. I do not recall seeing one of them. The website does not even give an option to sort players by that year.

Look at how many 2014 are committed. There are 92 2014's committed right now. Those are U16 players who just finished their sophomore year. Almost everyone fits into one of three catagories - national team experience, local kid going to the local school or committed to a big time program (which means they are impact players). And btw have you looked at the list of players committing to these top programs? It's a who's who of the soccer world and their experiences are off the chart. Look at how many players a Duke or Notra Dame takes without serious ODP travel or All tournament selection at a major showcase, etc.

Show me where the trend is that the common everyday player on even the Stars or PDA or any club in or out of the ECNL is committed that early. You are seriously fooling yourself and every single person here that you are trying to convince.

Facts are tough to take when they refute your ridiculous assertions.

2014's are rising Juniors. Some of them have been committed for months. Start researching some of the 2014's that have committed. 11 out of the top 25 players listed on TopDrawer for the class have already committed and they have JUST finished their sophomore year.

[Unregistered]

Buddy, having coaches on the sideline watching games and doing unofficial visits has been the same for years. Nothing has changed. The timeline advanced several years ago. That is not recruiting. That is coaches watching players and coaches being happy to meet with players who call and set up an appointment, or have their coach call to set up the appointement. Players at U15 and early U16 are NOT getting recruited or getting offers unless they are really something special - ie national pool or regional pool. And no matter what club they are on if they are that good they are going to get recruited because they are the well known player who will have an impact in college. The rest of the girls are being seen and being evaluated. That's all.

Look at the commiment website (I know it is not fully accurate or all inclusive) and see how many 2015 are committed. That is the age you are talking about. I do not recall seeing one of them. The website does not even give an option to sort players by that year.

Look at how many 2014 are committed. There are 92 2014's committed right now. Those are U16 players who just finished their sophomore year. Almost everyone fits into one of three catagories - national team experience, local kid going to the local school or committed to a big time program (which means they are impact players). And btw have you looked at the list of players committing to these top programs? It's a who's who of the soccer world and their experiences are off the chart. Look at how many players a Duke or Notra Dame takes without serious ODP travel or All tournament selection at a major showcase, etc.

Show me where the trend is that the common everyday player on even the Stars or PDA or any club in or out of the ECNL is committed that early. You are seriously fooling yourself and every single person here that you are trying to convince.

Facts are tough to take when they refute your ridiculous assertions.

I am going to add to this and again point out the next stage of reality.

To this point the girls you are saying are being recruited have received some basic emails at times from coaches they emailed to that invite them to a camp, or provide some basic school data. Maybe they have received a nice email that says thanks for writing to me but I cannot write back other than to tell you XXXXX. Again, that is not being recruited. That is being a good coach being responsive and keeping the kid interested in the coaches' school because right now they have not one conclusion about the kid other than maybe I should keep the kid on my list.

The U16's that just finished their year and are rising juniors (class of 2014) can receive emails from coaches about them on September 1. In the meantime that is it. Maybe a coach will send info on the school and say that they saw a U16 play at X tournament and here's more information on my school after PDA or Vegas. That's starting to get to recruited, but it is a borderline violation as well.

The real first steps for the common player are this summer's camps as a U16. Now coaches are really interested and evaluating. And while on campus the coach can talk with the girl. Maybe the girl gets a call from her club coach this summer saying the coach at X college wants her to call him/her. That's real recruiting. The calls and emails starting September 1 will include being invited for an unofficial overnight. Now we're really talking about being recruited. And that is fall of junior year.

One caution though, all of this outlined above does not mean the girl gets an offer. It means she is one of the top 4-5 the coach is interested in for a specific position on the college team. If suzy from Texas pushes and gets an offer and accepts the offer on October 1 for the same position that your daughter wants to play then guess what? Your daughter is out of luck for that school. Great communication, great recruiting, great interest, great visit, but that does not mean the offer is coming.

It is a tough process and it has not changed at all in years. The timeline and the rules are the same. It is a dance and it takes time.

The typical player in MA will not be playing college soccer.

Typically in MA there will be between 40 and 50 players going D1 a year and about half will come from the two ECNL clubs. Virtually all the rest are from the next two or three top teams in the state.

Typically in MA there will be about 200 players going D2 or D3 a year and about 40 or so are from the top four to five teams in the state.

[Unregistered]

2014's are rising Juniors. Some of them have been committed for months. Start researching some of the 2014's that have committed. 11 out of the top 25 players listed on TopDrawer for the class have already committed and they have JUST finished their sophomore year.

You just made my point. There are only 92 players committed out of the 2014's at this point. There are about 2,000 D1 positions that will be filled by the time these girls go to college. As you stated 11 of the top 25 on TopDrawer (not the best indicator of talent but I will go with it as you have) players are on that list. The U16 players that are being recruited and committed are only the top players, not the run of the mill players who are what the posters are talking about.

[Unregistered]

One of the things that is changing and pushing the recruiting timeline earlier is ODP is making an effort to identify players earlier. If you doubt this do a little research. The fact that ODP is doing more identifying, evaluating and tracking of players is actually one of the reasons cited behind the new change in the U14 GNT training camp program they are implementing this year. As soon as you start putting players on lists like this college coaches are going to start reaching out to them. The reason that kids don't commit as soon as they first start getting contacted sure isn't because the college coaches won't accept the commitment, it is because the kids are just too young to actually make the decision. It doesn't really cost a coach to acknowledge a commitment. The risk is all on the players side.

[Unregistered]

I am going to add to this and again point out the next stage of reality.

To this point the girls you are saying are being recruited have received some basic emails at times from coaches they emailed to that invite them to a camp, or provide some basic school data. Maybe they have received a nice email that says thanks for writing to me but I cannot write back other than to tell you XXXXX. Again, that is not being recruited. That is being a good coach being responsive and keeping the kid interested in the coaches' school because right now they have not one conclusion about the kid other than maybe I should keep the kid on my list.

The U16's that just finished their year and are rising juniors (class of 2014) can receive emails from coaches about them on September 1. In the meantime that is it. Maybe a coach will send info on the school and say that they saw a U16 play at X tournament and here's more information on my school after PDA or Vegas. That's starting to get to recruited, but it is a borderline violation as well.

The real first steps for the common player are this summer's camps as a U16. Now coaches are really interested and evaluating. And while on campus the coach can talk with the girl. Maybe the girl gets a call from her club coach this summer saying the coach at X college wants her to call him/her. That's real recruiting. The calls and emails starting September 1 will include being invited for an unofficial overnight. Now we're really talking about being recruited. And that is fall of junior year.

One caution though, all of this outlined above does not mean the girl gets an offer. It means she is one of the top 4-5 the coach is interested in for a specific position on the college team. If suzy from Texas pushes and gets an offer and accepts the offer on October 1 for the same position that your daughter wants to play then guess what? Your daughter is out of luck for that school. Great communication, great recruiting, great interest, great visit, but that does not mean the offer is coming.

It is a tough process and it has not changed at all in years. The timeline and the rules are the same. It is a dance and it takes time.

The typical player in MA will not be playing college soccer.

Typically in MA there will be between 40 and 50 players going D1 a year and about half will come from the two ECNL clubs. Virtually all the rest are from the next two or three top teams in the state.

Typically in MA there will be about 200 players going D2 or D3 a year and about 40 or so are from the top four to five teams in the state.

Some u15s are 2014's.

[Unregistered]

Some u15s are 2014's.

You so commically miss the point.

[Unregistered]

Typically in MA there will be between 40 and 50 players going D1 a year and about half will come from the two ECNL clubs. Virtually all the rest are from the next two or three top teams in the state.

Typically in MA there will be about 200 players going D2 or D3 a year and about 40 or so are from the top four to five teams in the state.

I agree the majority of the players come predominently from the two ECNL clubs, secondarily from the next couple top teams, followed by a top player or so from the remaining clubs. 50 D1 players a year seems a bit inflated though.

[Unregistered]

You so commically miss the point.

I did - really?

The conversation went as follows...

ECNL is about showcasing
some are in it for the competition
ECNL teams don't play the best schedule
Really? Look at how many great teams stars u15s have played
u15s don't get recruited
yes they do
no they don't
...
2015 u15s definately dont get recruited, 2014s are being recruited now
some u15s are 2014s.

This summary brought to you by the letters S, H and G

[Unregistered]

The typical player in MA will not be playing college soccer.

Typically in MA there will be between 40 and 50 players going D1 a year and about half will come from the two ECNL clubs. Virtually all the rest are from the next two or three top teams in the state.

Typically in MA there will be about 200 players going D2 or D3 a year and about 40 or so are from the top four to five teams in the state.

It is my impression that the numbers of MA girls (that is what we're talking about, right?) playing college soccer is increasing - perhaps because MA soccer players are improving in relation to the rest of the country.

[Unregistered]

One of the things that is changing and pushing the recruiting timeline earlier is ODP is making an effort to identify players earlier. If you doubt this do a little research. The fact that ODP is doing more identifying, evaluating and tracking of players is actually one of the reasons cited behind the new change in the U14 GNT training camp program they are implementing this year. As soon as you start putting players on lists like this college coaches are going to start reaching out to them. The reason that kids don't commit as soon as they first start getting contacted sure isn't because the college coaches won't accept the commitment, it is because the kids are just too young to actually make the decision. It doesn't really cost a coach to acknowledge a commitment. The risk is all on the players side.

Just the opposite. We have been told by every college coach it is ECNL that is driving the earlier comits because of the level and intensity of play. They are seeing sooner and sooner in true game situations what players can deliver for college teams- taking the doubts away. Not a good player on a so so team playing an OK team which may take years to see what a college coach is looking for.
Every coach is looking for team and ECNL is providing.

[Unregistered]

Just the opposite. We have been told by every college coach it is ECNL that is driving the earlier comits because of the level and intensity of play. They are seeing sooner and sooner in true game situations what players can deliver for college teams- taking the doubts away. Not a good player on a so so team playing an OK team which may take years to see what a college coach is looking for.
Every coach is looking for team and ECNL is providing.

Here is the problem with early commits. Seems that coaches want to make it later but the NCAA seems to want to make it easier and earlier. Who is pushing them?

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/ecnl-...e-dame_vid3129

[Unregistered]

college coaches say one thing, yet do another. the current system is in their favor. they can target kids early and lock them up, all while not needing to respond to player inquiries. most top programs fill their rosters way before the coach can legally call anyone from that specific class. talented players that wait will find they have few options.

blame the coaches. if they wanted to fix the current situation they could.

[Unregistered]

Just the opposite. We have been told by every college coach it is ECNL that is driving the earlier comits because of the level and intensity of play. They are seeing sooner and sooner in true game situations what players can deliver for college teams- taking the doubts away. Not a good player on a so so team playing an OK team which may take years to see what a college coach is looking for.
Every coach is looking for team and ECNL is providing.

No what they are looking for are players tested by other high level players in settings like a national camp or inter regional competitions. The rank and file player in the ECNL is not viewed to be at this level ( largely becsuse their clubs discourage them from participating) and therefore the league doesn't have the drawing power this poster asserts. The truth is a high level R1 team will always have more credibility than a mid level ECNL team because the R1 team will have earned their standing on the field whereas the ECNL only gets credibility by association. That has always been the flaw in this posters argument.

[Unregistered]

No what they are looking for are players tested by other high level players in settings like a national camp or inter regional competitions. The rank and file player in the ECNL is not viewed to be at this level ( largely becsuse their clubs discourage them from participating) and therefore the league doesn't have the drawing power this poster asserts. The truth is a high level R1 team will always have more credibility than a mid level ECNL team because the R1 team will have earned their standing on the field whereas the ECNL only gets credibility by association. That has always been the flaw in this posters argument.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/ecnl-...e-dame_vid3129