The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

This comment is really ....stupid. We aren't talking cut-throat...you saying this is what is wrong with the sport of soccer....fairness, no politics, developing skills, nothing else should matter...people like you whoever you are are what people are upset wit. Straight forward fairness communication between players with honesty...this is what is needed in the league....

I was pointing out the bipolar nature of the populus on this board. Some people think the clubs are too quick to cut kids as soon as someone better comes along, and the poster I responded to is thinking that these teams never cut anyone.

I think you'll agree that both of these can't be true at the same time, right?

My opinion (not that you care) is that there is very little politics as you call it in ECNL roster spots. The best players who want the spots get them. If a player comes along who deserves a spot, they will get on the roster. Either someone will be replaced, or they go win 19 (or 20), and a bunch of people lose playing time.

These teams go out to put the best team on the field they can. Everyone on these teams understands that and that is why they are there. These kids want to be in that environment.

[Unregistered]

You are missing the point....if ECNL is for the best, then the players that lose interest should be downgraded....their is no guarantee that a player who was good at 14 will stay and improve at 18

Who says that this doesn't happen. On every team my child has been on, at least a few have been cut (or left) and a few have been added each year. Seems natural.

[Unregistered]

Here is a copy of the Scorpions sales pitch inviting players to their tryouts. It is like many other such emails clubs send out at this time of year. In it the Scorpions make several statements that I believe should be challenged as quite misleading. Specifically:

1-The 3 areas they say are crucial for 'ELITE' player development - The assumption seems to be that simply playing on one of their teams qualifies the player as "ELITE" and nowhere do they seem to suggest that actual talent is needed or that hard work is required.

2- The idea that the ECNL represents the highest level of competition in the country and that simply partaking in that competition will elevate a player to "the next level". The assumption clearly is that the ECNL is the only place where competitive games get played.

3- The idea that the ECNL represents some unique opportunity to be included in the US National team. The notion being sold is that the ECNL will give a player a better shot at making it to the US National team than all of the other venues out there.

4- The idea the the majority of college recruiting takes place at ECNL events. The inference is that showcases are the only place where college coaches recruit and that the ECNL showcases are the only showcases that they actually attend.

5- The idea that the club deserves more credit for a player earning a soccer scholarship than the player themselves. The claim that obviously is being made is the Scorpions created the player's success and can replicate that success for another player.

When you read this sort of email it is quite easy to understand why there is so much division between the ECNL and Non clubs. At the very least these statements have to be looked upon as controversial. Many would argue that they really stretch the boundaries of truth. What say you?

Non ECNL parent of a rising HS senior here - Fact: As we have gone through the college recruiting/marketing process over the past 12-18 months, the message has been clear (though rarely explicit) from the most competitive collegiate coaches: The overwhelming majority of them are looking at ECNL events first. This is not to say that they ignore everything else but if you are an ECNL player, you are simply getting more exposure. It is still up to the individual player to show well but our daughter has been frustrated by the fact that she does not have an ECNL pedigree. Indeed, her best exposure and greatest response from coaches has been generated from tournament matches where she has played against Scorps. Given what she has seen/experienced during the process, she definitely wishes that she had gone the ECNL route - irrespective of the relative merits of the 2 MA clubs that participate.

[Unregistered]

Non ECNL parent of a rising HS senior here - Fact: As we have gone through the college recruiting/marketing process over the past 12-18 months, the message has been clear (though rarely explicit) from the most competitive collegiate coaches: The overwhelming majority of them are looking at ECNL events first. This is not to say that they ignore everything else but if you are an ECNL player, you are simply getting more exposure. It is still up to the individual player to show well but our daughter has been frustrated by the fact that she does not have an ECNL pedigree. Indeed, her best exposure and greatest response from coaches has been generated from tournament matches where she has played against Scorps. Given what she has seen/experienced during the process, she definitely wishes that she had gone the ECNL route - irrespective of the relative merits of the 2 MA clubs that participate.

The problem IS the ECNL rosters don't change that much from U14 - U18 so the chances of getting into one of these clubs at the top team level is VERY VERY small. Which is why this whole discussion is POINTLESS. I wouldn't burn a bridge at a top team nonECNL comparative club to go try out for a pipedream unless you had a guaranteed spot. If your daughter was offered that, I can understand her frustration. If not, then you probably are faring as well or better than you would have.

[Unregistered]

Non ECNL parent of a rising HS senior here - Fact: As we have gone through the college recruiting/marketing process over the past 12-18 months, the message has been clear (though rarely explicit) from the most competitive collegiate coaches: The overwhelming majority of them are looking at ECNL events first. This is not to say that they ignore everything else but if you are an ECNL player, you are simply getting more exposure. It is still up to the individual player to show well but our daughter has been frustrated by the fact that she does not have an ECNL pedigree. Indeed, her best exposure and greatest response from coaches has been generated from tournament matches where she has played against Scorps. Given what she has seen/experienced during the process, she definitely wishes that she had gone the ECNL route - irrespective of the relative merits of the 2 MA clubs that participate.

From an exposure standpoint though, only the starters are getting that level. Unlikely that the remaining 12 are being looked at as seriously as perhaps your daughter is, especially if she is in the top 6-12 on her team.

[Unregistered]

They made a league with great competition but the truth is, kids rostered on ECNL who are given college scholarships would have achieved this without the ECNL label. It makes one stop shopping easier for college recruiting purposes, but I am not convinced that if you followed 10 players of EQUAL club status, caliber, talent, drive and aspirations to play in college that ECNL would have any more or less players committed at the end of the day. The kid still has to do the homework, contact the coach, keep academics a priority, etc. etc. etc.

May not be true for the smaller clubs but for clubs of equal size and ranking -- I'm betting it is a wash.

This is absolutely true. ECNL has created a series of tournaments that coaches attend. Those same coaches attend multiple national, regional and local tournaments that are not ECNL events as well. These include the major showcases, ODP events, USYSA Championship series events and Regional leagues. You have to also realize that ECNL teams ALSO attend major showcase tournaments and even local tournaments as well (Stars and Scorpions attend their own tournaments locally as do other ECNL clubs at their home tournaments).

The college opportunities for the 6th ranked team in a state like MA are going to be far more limited than those for the top ranked team in the state - that is obvious as the talent level is significantly different between those two teams. However, if the number two and three teams in the state is ranked in the top 50 nationally then they will get the same looks at tournaments as a top ECNL team and to be ranked that high the team has to have talent level that includes multiple D1 players and some special players that are game changers. These players will make it to good colleges and top programs. In some cases these players will do better in the college recruiting because they will be a real standout on a top 50 team instead of a core player on a top 20 team.

The reality is though that a D1 player on a top 100 team nationally will attain the appropriate level of play in college for her provided she does the recruiting process properly regardless of whether the team is an ECNL team or not. Additionally being on an ECNL team will not make that same player a better prospect for college than being on a non ECNL team. The top player on an ECNL team that goes to a top 20 college program is doing so because of her overall resume which includes ODP national team or regional team experience, not because of her ECNL team participation. There are plenty of examples of girls locally and nationally who play for lower level club teams who have the National ODP exeriences who end up on top 20 college programs and there are plenty of examples locally and nationally of top 100 teams that place the majority of their players in D1 programs and virtually all of their players on college rosters.

ECNL is just another approach. It is far from the only approach. Each player and each club and team need to build their own resume and find their own level of play.

[Unregistered]

The problem IS the ECNL rosters don't change that much from U14 - U18 so the chances of getting into one of these clubs at the top team level is VERY VERY small. Which is why this whole discussion is POINTLESS. I wouldn't burn a bridge at a top team nonECNL comparative club to go try out for a pipedream unless you had a guaranteed spot. If your daughter was offered that, I can understand her frustration. If not, then you probably are faring as well or better than you would have.

ECNL rosters change constantly. Especially at these ages when players change dramatically due to physical, emotional, social and focus changes.

[Unregistered]

From an exposure standpoint though, only the starters are getting that level. Unlikely that the remaining 12 are being looked at as seriously as perhaps your daughter is, especially if she is in the top 6-12 on her team.

Here's the real story folks. This is dead on target.

ECNL team is focused on winning. The spread of talent is just as deep as any other team, simpy this team may have the top 3-4 impact players in the state. Those girls are not getting taken off the field. The backs are not being taken off the field (unless its a blow-out). That means there are 3 psition players who are somewhat interchangable and perhaps 3 bench players will rotate with the 3 starters.

So, lets break this down in reality. 14 players get minutes regularly and 4 to 6 players rarely play. Do those players get exposure? No. Do those players end up at better programs because they are ECNL players? No. Do they get onto a better college rsater as a practice player than a starter at a non ECNL team starter? No, not if that non ECNL team is a top team in the state - typically NEFC, MPS or AZTEC in MA presently at U16, 17 or 18.

Playing time on a good team is what matters. Being an impact player - a leader on the field - is what matters. Being an impact player on a team that never goes to a major showcase tournament is not getting you into a D1 program (unless you have serious ODP experience like regional or national team experience). Being the 18th player on an ECNL team will not give you playing time and will not get you to a playing position on a college roster.

[Unregistered]

Non ECNL parent of a rising HS senior here - Fact: As we have gone through the college recruiting/marketing process over the past 12-18 months, the message has been clear (though rarely explicit) from the most competitive collegiate coaches: The overwhelming majority of them are looking at ECNL events first. This is not to say that they ignore everything else but if you are an ECNL player, you are simply getting more exposure. It is still up to the individual player to show well but our daughter has been frustrated by the fact that she does not have an ECNL pedigree. Indeed, her best exposure and greatest response from coaches has been generated from tournament matches where she has played against Scorps. Given what she has seen/experienced during the process, she definitely wishes that she had gone the ECNL route - irrespective of the relative merits of the 2 MA clubs that participate.

I would be curious as to what team your daughter plays for because the only likely tournaments she would have played against a Scorps ECNL team in past couple years would have been local ones like the MPS Thanksgiving event or Scorpion Bowl and neither is a hot bed for recruiting by “the most competitive collegiate coaches”.

I think the exposure issue may not be an ECNL vs. non-ECNL issue, but more of an issue of the level of play of your daughter’s current team and their ability to get into better showcases (or in decent brackets) or into R1PL.

Perhaps your daughter has also not done enough individually to attract coaches to come see her play (such as through ODP participation, achievements in high school, attending college clinics and camps). As to your regret for not choosing the ECNL path, how can you be sure she would have kept her spot on an ECNL team or received meaningful playing time (I assume she must have been offered a roster spot at some point for you to be so regretful)?

I also think if you were to speak to the top 12-15 players from MPS and Aztec U-18’s and NEFC U-17 teams, they will tell you they have had plenty of exposure to college coaches over past couple years, although no doubt the local ECNL teams in these age brackets received more attention and at an earlier point in time.

However, participation in the ECNL was not likely major factor in recruiting for teams like Stars U-18 and Scorps U-17’s. Those teams were the best in Region 1, or among the best in Region 1, and players on national stage even before ECNL came into existence. Many of those kids also made regional ODP teams or national camps and they would have attracted attention if those teams continued to play at a high level outside of the ECNL.

[Unregistered]

You are missing the point....if ECNL is for the best, then the players that lose interest should be downgraded....their is no guarantee that a player who was good at 14 will stay and improve at 18

I here what you're saying but getting rid of players and replacing them with players that are not much better isn't going to get the club anywhere. Parents will claim their is no loyalty. If you can get a potential starter then I agree with cutting player 18. It does start with the selection process at 15. The ECNL club should never have a kid on the team that they dread putting on the field.

[Unregistered]

The problem IS the ECNL rosters don't change that much from U14 - U18 so the chances of getting into one of these clubs at the top team level is VERY VERY small. Which is why this whole discussion is POINTLESS. I wouldn't burn a bridge at a top team nonECNL comparative club to go try out for a pipedream unless you had a guaranteed spot. If your daughter was offered that, I can understand her frustration. If not, then you probably are faring as well or better than you would have.

Actually, she was approached by one of the sides thru her school coach and via Facebook by the players several times and decided not to follow up. Now she's regretting it.

[Unregistered]

I would be curious as to what team your daughter plays for because the only likely tournaments she would have played against a Scorps ECNL team in past couple years would have been local ones like the MPS Thanksgiving event or Scorpion Bowl and neither is a hot bed for recruiting by “the most competitive collegiate coaches”.

I think the exposure issue may not be an ECNL vs. non-ECNL issue, but more of an issue of the level of play of your daughter’s current team and their ability to get into better showcases (or in decent brackets) or into R1PL.

Perhaps your daughter has also not done enough individually to attract coaches to come see her play (such as through ODP participation, achievements in high school, attending college clinics and camps). As to your regret for not choosing the ECNL path, how can you be sure she would have kept her spot on an ECNL team or received meaningful playing time (I assume she must have been offered a roster spot at some point for you to be so regretful)?

I also think if you were to speak to the top 12-15 players from MPS and Aztec U-18’s and NEFC U-17 teams, they will tell you they have had plenty of exposure to college coaches over past couple years, although no doubt the local ECNL teams in these age brackets received more attention and at an earlier point in time.

However, participation in the ECNL was not likely major factor in recruiting for teams like Stars U-18 and Scorps U-17’s. Those teams were the best in Region 1, or among the best in Region 1, and players on national stage even before ECNL came into existence. Many of those kids also made regional ODP teams or national camps and they would have attracted attention if those teams continued to play at a high level outside of the ECNL.

A couple of responses for you:
You hit the nail on the head with the comment about ECNL teams getting attention earlier in the process - in particular from coaches outside of the Northeast. She is on one of the teams that you reference so tournament visibility has been there. Agreed that the Scorpion/MPS tournaments that are not draws for the most elite coaches - they are local tournaments. Actually, the elite tournaments with ECNL and non-ECNL tracks are pretty enlightening when you look at where coaches from the highest level college teams spend their time. ODP and HS exposure/accolades are kinda superfluous unless you are doing an id2 camp (which she didn't do) but college camps have proven very fruitful.

[Unregistered]

College Coach List from ECNL finals. Still to be updated on 6/27

American University
American University
American University
American University
Arizona State University
Auburn University
Auburn University
Azusa Pacific University
Azusa Pacific University
Baldwn Wallace University
Ball State University
Boston College
Boston University
Bowling Green State University
Buena Vista University
Cal Poly
Campbell University
Canisius College
Cedarville University
Central Michigan University
Central Michigan University
Clarke University
Clemson University
Colgate University
College of Charleston
College of Charleston
Colorado Christian University
Concordia University, Irvine
Creighton
Dartmouth College
Dominican University
Drake University
Drexel University
Duke University
Duquesne University
East Carolina University
Eastern New Mexico University
elmhurst college
FIU
Fort Hays State University
George Mason University
George Mason University
Georgia State University
Georgia State University
Goshen College
Hofstra University
Hofstra University
Houston Baptist University
Howard University
Illinois Wesleyan University
Indiana university
Iowa State University
Jacksonville University
James Madison University
Kalamazoo College
Lafayette College
Lafayette College
Lafayette College
Lehigh University
Liberty University
Liberty University
Lindenwood University-Belleville
LSU
Macalester College
Manhattan College
Marquette University
Marquette University
Metro State- Denver
Michigan State University
Middle Tennessee State University
Minnesota State University Moorhead
Mississippi State University
Missouri State University
National Scouting Report
NC State Univ
Newman University
NJIT
North Dakota State University
North Dakota State University
Northern Illinois University
Northern Illinois University
Northern Kentucky University
Northern Kentucky University
Northwestern State University
Oakland University
Ohio University
oklahoma state university
Old Dominion University
Ole Miss
Oral Roberts University
Penn State University
Penn State University
Pepperdine University
Post University
Purdue University Calumet
Purdue University Calumet
Regis University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rice University
Rice University
Rider University
Saint Louis University
Saint Mary’s College - CA
Saint Mary’s College of California
Saint Rose
Saint Rose
Samford
San Jose State University
Seattle Pacific University
SMU
SMU
South Dakota State University
South Dakota State University
Southern IL Edwardsville
St. John’s University
St. Olaf College
Stony Brook University
Syracuse University
Tennessee Tech University
Tennessee Tech University
Texas A&M
Texas A&M University- Corpus Christi
Texas State University
Texas Tech University
The University of Kentucky
The University of Wyoming
The University of Wyoming
Towson
Trinity International University
UNC Chapel Hill
UNCG
UNCG
United States Air Force Academy
University at Albany
University of Alabama
University of Arizona
University of Bridgeport
University of Central Arkansas
University of Central Florida
University of Central Missouri
University of Cincinnati
University of Colorado
University of Colorado
University of Colorado
University of Connecticut
University of Dayton
University of Denver
University of Evansville
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Houston
University of Illinois
University of Kansas
University of Kansas
University of Kentucky
University of Louisville
University of Maine
University of Maine
University of Massachusetts
University of Memphis
University of Miami
University of Miami
University of Michigan
University of Montana
University of Nevada Las Vegas
University of New Hampshire
University of Northern Colorado
University of Northern Iowa
University of Notre Dame
University of Oklahoma
University of Oklahoma
University of Pittsburgh
University of Pittsburgh
University of San Francisco
University of South Dakota
University of Southern Mississippi
University of Tennessee
University of Texas at El Paso
University of Texas at San Antonio
University of Vermont
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Wyoming
University of Wyoming
Utah
Utah State Universtiy
Vanguard University
Wake Forest
Wake Forest
Washington U. in St. Louis
West Virginia University
Western Kentucky University
Western Washington University
Wheaton Coll. (Mass.)
William & Mary
Yale

[Unregistered]

American University
American University
American University
American University
Arizona State University
Auburn University
Auburn University
Azusa Pacific University
Azusa Pacific University
Baldwn Wallace University
Ball State University
Boston College
Boston University
Bowling Green State University
Buena Vista University
Cal Poly
Campbell University
Canisius College
Cedarville University
Central Michigan University
Central Michigan University
Clarke University
Clemson University
Colgate University
College of Charleston
College of Charleston
Colorado Christian University
Concordia University, Irvine
Creighton
Dartmouth College
Dominican University
Drake University
Drexel University
Duke University
Duquesne University
East Carolina University
Eastern New Mexico University
elmhurst college
FIU
Fort Hays State University
George Mason University
George Mason University
Georgia State University
Georgia State University
Goshen College
Hofstra University
Hofstra University
Houston Baptist University
Howard University
Illinois Wesleyan University
Indiana university
Iowa State University
Jacksonville University
James Madison University
Kalamazoo College
Lafayette College
Lafayette College
Lafayette College
Lehigh University
Liberty University
Liberty University
Lindenwood University-Belleville
LSU
Macalester College
Manhattan College
Marquette University
Marquette University
Metro State- Denver
Michigan State University
Middle Tennessee State University
Minnesota State University Moorhead
Mississippi State University
Missouri State University
National Scouting Report
NC State Univ
Newman University
NJIT
North Dakota State University
North Dakota State University
Northern Illinois University
Northern Illinois University
Northern Kentucky University
Northern Kentucky University
Northwestern State University
Oakland University
Ohio University
oklahoma state university
Old Dominion University
Ole Miss
Oral Roberts University
Penn State University
Penn State University
Pepperdine University
Post University
Purdue University Calumet
Purdue University Calumet
Regis University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rice University
Rice University
Rider University
Saint Louis University
Saint Mary’s College - CA
Saint Mary’s College of California
Saint Rose
Saint Rose
Samford
San Jose State University
Seattle Pacific University
SMU
SMU
South Dakota State University
South Dakota State University
Southern IL Edwardsville
St. John’s University
St. Olaf College
Stony Brook University
Syracuse University
Tennessee Tech University
Tennessee Tech University
Texas A&M
Texas A&M University- Corpus Christi
Texas State University
Texas Tech University
The University of Kentucky
The University of Wyoming
The University of Wyoming
Towson
Trinity International University
UNC Chapel Hill
UNCG
UNCG
United States Air Force Academy
University at Albany
University of Alabama
University of Arizona
University of Bridgeport
University of Central Arkansas
University of Central Florida
University of Central Missouri
University of Cincinnati
University of Colorado
University of Colorado
University of Colorado
University of Connecticut
University of Dayton
University of Denver
University of Evansville
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Houston
University of Illinois
University of Kansas
University of Kansas
University of Kentucky
University of Louisville
University of Maine
University of Maine
University of Massachusetts
University of Memphis
University of Miami
University of Miami
University of Michigan
University of Montana
University of Nevada Las Vegas
University of New Hampshire
University of Northern Colorado
University of Northern Iowa
University of Notre Dame
University of Oklahoma
University of Oklahoma
University of Pittsburgh
University of Pittsburgh
University of San Francisco
University of South Dakota
University of Southern Mississippi
University of Tennessee
University of Texas at El Paso
University of Texas at San Antonio
University of Vermont
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Wyoming
University of Wyoming
Utah
Utah State Universtiy
Vanguard University
Wake Forest
Wake Forest
Washington U. in St. Louis
West Virginia University
Western Kentucky University
Western Washington University
Wheaton Coll. (Mass.)
William & Mary
Yale

Agree, but look at the number of coaches at the Disney tournament and also at Regionals...I just saw a really extensive list at the Region II Michigan regionals as even my daughters east coach future coach is at Michigan regionals this week. And if there are few ECNL clubs there.

[Unregistered]

Agree, but look at the number of coaches at the Disney tournament and also at Regionals...I just saw a really extensive list at the Region II Michigan regionals as even my daughters east coach future coach is at Michigan regionals this week. And if there are few ECNL clubs there.

It was a short trip to Orlando from Sanford. Why not kill 2 birds with one stone? Then again, it seems that there are a few notables who decided to head home rather than wait around.