The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

Totally agree with the sentiment here. One of the great benefits that my daughter has gained from playing at a high level is that she is her own advocate. On the soccer field and at school. This is so important. She would never allow me to speak to a coach or a teacher. That doesn't mean that I'm not involved. It may seem like I am just paying the bills and driving her around, but I'm there when she gets in the car to see how she is feeling. I'm available if she has something that she needs to talk about and I'll certainly work through issues with her before she decides how to proceed. For me, I can really enjoy the process more if I'm not as involved or concerned about who is playing where and what this teammate is doing or what that parent is saying. It isn't necessary to know all of that. I focus on my own child, how she is feeling and how she is playing. That's it.

[Unregistered]

Back to the original post in this topic...Do the Scorpions have multiple "levels" of teams at each age level? So, an ECNL team and others? I think this sales pitch is fine, but I'm wondering if it alienates those participating with the other teams. Is that why people are so upset with it?

[Unregistered]

Back to the original post in this topic...Do the Scorpions have multiple "levels" of teams at each age level? So, an ECNL team and others? I think this sales pitch is fine, but I'm wondering if it alienates those participating with the other teams. Is that why people are so upset with it?

Exactly. If your club is so focused on one area and one team it makes the rest of the non-ECNL teams feel like they are an afterthought. And those trying out for those teams "less than." It is very short sighted to focus all your marketing hype on a team with so few spots. The dangling carrot for your B teamers only works for so long especially if you devote your best coaches only to ECNL and the spots are continually only offered to outside talent, regardless of level of play and improvement on your lower rosters.

A club needs to shoot for the best team at all levels and sell it as a "different but not less than path.". ECNL roster spots are few and far between.

[Unregistered]

Sorry, folks.......if you find it necessary to meddle/hover and micro-manage all the details of your kids' experiences, do yourself a favor and find a new club. Me? I don't have time to do it. My line of thinking is not ancient and it has served my kids just fine and will continue to do so. Parent politics in clubs are what is ancient.

It's kind of funny that you've put yourself into a discussion that covers the ECNL. One of the tenets of the league is getting the kids to become a little more responsible for their actions and play. THe more progressive clubs in the league, when the kid get older, put the kids on a bus for the away games. Seeing that your child requires hand-holding from mommy and/or daddy, I seriously doubt if they are cut out for the league or life beyond the league - soccer and the real world of academics and a career.

There is a big difference between advocating for ones self and being left defenseless to be taken advantage of. This is not town soccer and these coaches are not just volunteer moms/dads doing the best they can. The coaches are supposed to be professionals who are being compensated for leading a team full of college hopefuls through a maze so they can attain their goals. When you look at the cost these player's families are now paying to attain those goals you have to realize that the stakes have grown quite high. This is no longer some penny ante game. Any parent who would just let their child be directed into life altering decisions (whether good or bad) by someone other than a family member without at least understanding the issues is a fool. Children cannot really advocate for themselves. That is why they can't enter into contracts. They need help to learn how to do it and you certainly don't teach lessons by making the consequences severe. If the basic idea behind the ECNL is that all the power should be vested with the coaches then I am glad I am not a part of it.

[Unregistered]

my kids have been involved in ecnl and in other clubs and leagues. smart coaches are aloof, on purpose. they don't drink beers and discuss strategy with parents. they don't allow complaining after games, but instead institute a 24 hour rule and ask that the parents, or kids when older, make an appointment. too often, stuff we parents want to discuss just doesn't rise to the level of importance we initially assign it after we cool down.

my kids have always been able to discuss important stuff with their coaches, especially if they approached it the right way. knowing how to address an emotional and touchy subject in a positive manner is an important life lesson. best to learn it now over soccer stuff. 99.99% of our kids will be earning a living in something other than soccer, and this ability will come in handy.

[Unregistered]

Totally agree with the sentiment here. One of the great benefits that my daughter has gained from playing at a high level is that she is her own advocate. On the soccer field and at school. This is so important. She would never allow me to speak to a coach or a teacher. That doesn't mean that I'm not involved. It may seem like I am just paying the bills and driving her around, but I'm there when she gets in the car to see how she is feeling. I'm available if she has something that she needs to talk about and I'll certainly work through issues with her before she decides how to proceed. For me, I can really enjoy the process more if I'm not as involved or concerned about who is playing where and what this teammate is doing or what that parent is saying. It isn't necessary to know all of that. I focus on my own child, how she is feeling and how she is playing. That's it.

The big fallacy in all of this is the situation does not have to be as one sided as is being painted. We approach our coach as though we are in a partnership. There is a fair amount of dialogue between all of us but it really is centered around understanding the roles and expectations we all are setting, then meshing them. My daughter is absolutely actively involved in all of this. She is expected to speak to the coach and completely understand what he wants from her. Right now we are working on dealing with coaching criticism. Even the most famous players have problems in their game. With kids there are plenty of problems. Improving on those problems is all about understanding criticism. There is an art to taking in criticism and being able to translate it into improvement in ones game. We don't believe that children are actually emotionally prepared to do that so we help her understand the criticism. We don't meddle but we do need to understand the criticism ourselves so we can help her understand it. That takes communication. We don't question anything related to tactics or games. That is both their jobs and we let them do their jobs. All we really want to know is what our daughter needs to work on and if she is working hard enough to get where she wants to go.

Since we know we have the right of decision we believe we have all the control in the relationship. We don't worry about getting cut or losing playing time because those situations are what they are. Coaches don't bench or cut players they are happy with. You really don't change a coaches view of a player by meddling. The only one who can change a coaches view is the player. They either work to meet the coach's expectations or they don't. The trick is clearly understanding those expectations so you can meet them. Shame on any parent who doesn't clearly understand where their child stands on the team and why they play the amount they play. Your job is clarifying those expectations with your child so they can be successful with that coach. If you disagree with the coaches assessment of your player or their expectations for them you have the right to move them to another team. Advocating for them or trying to discredit the evaluation does nothing but create turmoil on the team. That is the wrong thing to do. If your player is not doing what the coach wants and is not working towards meeing their expectationgs then you all get what you get. That is where the concept of produce of perish comes in. There is always going to be someone out there who will meet the coach's expectations. Now when those expectations don't produce results, that is when everyone leaves the coach. Everyone will find that it works out pretty simply when everyone understands the expectations.

[Unregistered]

Excellent post. Applies to many areas and teams, not just ECNL.

[Unregistered]

Sorry, folks.......if you find it necessary to meddle/hover and micro-manage all the details of your kids' experiences, do yourself a favor and find a new club....

You might familiarize yourself with the concept of a strawman argument.

[Unregistered]

Back to the original post in this topic...Do the Scorpions have multiple "levels" of teams at each age level? So, an ECNL team and others? I think this sales pitch is fine, but I'm wondering if it alienates those participating with the other teams. Is that why people are so upset with it?

This is the one of the differences when comparing the Stars to the Scorpions. The Stars provide great coaching and opportunities to all levels of teams. The Scoprions have a hard time keep the B level teams filled as they are an after thought with respect to getting good coaches, practice time and advancement opportunities once they are over U12.

I am a parent of 2 current scorpion players one on an ECNL team and the other on a 2nd team. I have not been thrilled with either team when talking about coaching.

[Unregistered]

There is a big difference between advocating for ones self and being left defenseless to be taken advantage of. This is not town soccer and these coaches are not just volunteer moms/dads doing the best they can. The coaches are supposed to be professionals who are being compensated for leading a team full of college hopefuls through a maze so they can attain their goals. When you look at the cost these player's families are now paying to attain those goals you have to realize that the stakes have grown quite high. This is no longer some penny ante game. Any parent who would just let their child be directed into life altering decisions (whether good or bad) by someone other than a family member without at least understanding the issues is a fool. Children cannot really advocate for themselves. That is why they can't enter into contracts. They need help to learn how to do it and you certainly don't teach lessons by making the consequences severe. If the basic idea behind the ECNL is that all the power should be vested with the coaches then I am glad I am not a part of it.

And what on what high level team is the power not vested inthe coaches? Seems commonplace to me, ECNL or not.

[Unregistered]

This is the one of the differences when comparing the Stars to the Scorpions. The Stars provide great coaching and opportunities to all levels of teams. The Scoprions have a hard time keep the B level teams filled as they are an after thought with respect to getting good coaches, practice time and advancement opportunities once they are over U12.

I am a parent of 2 current scorpion players one on an ECNL team and the other on a 2nd team. I have not been thrilled with either team when talking about coaching.

Enough so to explore other club options? I get that geography can be a real detriment to branching out, but does there come a time that leaving is seriously considered, or in the end do you just grin and bear it?

[Unregistered]

Enough so to explore other club options? I get that geography can be a real detriment to branching out, but does there come a time that leaving is seriously considered, or in the end do you just grin and bear it?

E - Ever
C - Changing
N – Never
L - Leading

[Unregistered]

This is the one of the differences when comparing the Stars to the Scorpions. The Stars provide great coaching and opportunities to all levels of teams. The Scoprions have a hard time keep the B level teams filled as they are an after thought with respect to getting good coaches, practice time and advancement opportunities once they are over U12.

I am a parent of 2 current scorpion players one on an ECNL team and the other on a 2nd team. I have not been thrilled with either team when talking about coaching.

The goal of any of the 'destination' clubs should be to provide great opportunities and coaching at both their A and B team levels and train them such that there is only a modicum of difference between skill sets on both teams. The mindset should be that if an ECNL player is injured and there is no backfill on the current roster, you reach into your B team and fill the spot with the confidence that you will get equal coverage in the position. While this is a pipedream for some clubs, it is not for others.

[Unregistered]

The goal of any of the 'destination' clubs should be to provide great opportunities and coaching at both their A and B team levels and train them such that there is only a modicum of difference between skill sets on both teams. The mindset should be that if an ECNL player is injured and there is no backfill on the current roster, you reach into your B team and fill the spot with the confidence that you will get equal coverage in the position. While this is a pipedream for some clubs, it is not for others.

this is great in theory, but very difficult to accomplish. there are typically only a few players even close to ready to make the jump to the A team, and if the a team carries a full roster, these players are unlikely to be moved up anyway.

the only situation where i see this sort of work is when geography is the factor that keeps a player on a b squad. players train with their area stars west, scorps west or nefc regional team, and move to the a team for games.

[Unregistered]

And what on what high level team is the power not vested inthe coaches? Seems commonplace to me, ECNL or not.

Then you have never been on a high level team and must not be familiar with the term "coach killer". The only players who give coaches that much control over them are the ones who have something to fear. High level teams have high level players. High level teams lose when their high level players don't play up to their ability. Human nature being what it is, you can't just command a player to perform. Especially with today's athletes. You need them to buy in to what the team is trying to do. That takes communication. If a player doesn't buy in they don't try perform what the team is trying to do. That is when teams lose. When players with talent don't perform the coach always gets blamed. Usually they get fired, hence the term "coach killer". The problem many of you don't seem to see is that actual high level players are not all that common in this youth environment so when a coach does have one they can't really afford to just take a "my way or the highway" attitude with them because they know that they have plenty of options and there are no contractural obligations to bind them to a team. They will just leave. If you are in such an austere environment what they says is the coach doesn't care if you leave and that means your kid just aint that good.