The ECNL Sales Pitch - Fact or Fiction

[Unregistered]

Your thinking is just wrong because the journey is more like a marathon and half the battle is just having the will to finish. If your child really does have the talent to play at the D1 level the team does not matter nearly as much as the amount of access you are able to exploit. If you focus on getting to know specific coaches as opposed to getting on teams that will get into specific tournaments you will make different decisions.

our experience has clearly been different. i agree getting to know specific coaches in as intimate a setting as possible, provided your child has the talent and plays well in these situations, is a huge advantage. team and level of play do matter though. for example, a kid that is far superior and can run by or through weak opposition never is forced to develop guile and game intelligence and an off foot. many coaches use the level of play as a first sort. if you say i'm on the club's b team, playing maple 2, often the d1 door shuts immediately. where you play is the FIRST question a coach asks when you visit. i've known kids that visited colleges and couldn't even get a 10 minute sit down, even writing letters and e-mails, because they didn't play regularly at a high enough competitive level to interest the coaching staff. coaches have thousands of players to whittle down to a handful, so fair or not, the team and level of play impact whether they will expend valuable time and effort on your child. this in part explains why top teams place more players, when we all know kids on lesser teams that are equal or even better players.

[Unregistered]

Your bias is showing because we have never had a bad experience with small clinics. They are what they are. We go for the access and exposure. Generally they are cheap too. Most of the schools now sponsor recruit clinics which are usually small tryouts. You don't get overlooked at those and if you have what they want, things work out fine. Micro showcases work as well. These are the small 3-4 team round robins that coaches put together for their players. There might not be 50-60 coaches on the sidelines but the ones that are there are going to be interested and will be able to pick your player out of the crowd. The bottom line is if you have the talent these small venues give you all the exposure you need.

I wasnt trying to hide my bias, but rather show my experience. At clinics my daughter had usually been on the main field with the head coach, but there are usually a couple of field of kids that are getting zero exposure.

It is important to catch at least a little of the coaches eye before you go to a clinic or camp for exposure purposes otherwise you can easily be overlooked.

This is no different than at showcases. If you don't contact coaches ahead of time, they aren't likely to do a drive by and suddenly notice how wonderful you are. Neither approach is a magic bullet. If you can attend the camps of the 3-4 schools you are interested in and qualified for then that is probably more effective. If your list has 10-15 schools, you will probably have more luck with showcases.

There is no one answer that is right for everyone.

DYOR

[Unregistered]

I have friends that have had children involved in nearly every organized child activity. Soccer is unique, in that one of the principle aspects of the game itself is a high tension level. In addition, behavior by parents is unique in soccer because of the explosion of Club soccer, which has developed rivalry and even hatred among parents. I hate to make this anaolgy, but organized youth sports like soccer have become a sort of Roman Empire equiv. of the Gladiator Games, without the violent outcomes. Parents plot and place their children in situations that by nature, encourage more and more competition at younger and younger ages. They are looking for the edge,and the means to project their child to the top of the heap of their specific agenda. ECNL now has Junior ECNL. DAP now has " pre-Academy ", starting at age 12. Very stressful for parents to start making decisions about 12 year old children just kicking a ball around, it has become so much more complicated. More life draining. Many parents don't realize it because the ego boost and adreniline rush of seeing their child excel is almost intoxicating.

The children battle it out, and the parents stand in judgement , thumbs up, thumbs down, for the victors, that being those on the " best " Club, " best " league , " best " coach, etc. etc. What was once just a trophy and gold chase has morphed into an evironment well beyond the mere match competition, and many times not the bonifide positive overall development for children that many seek.

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. I still think that the hockey & baseball parents can be just as bad, though.

Anyway, a lot of what you describe is also dependent on the club and the parents. Parents can have a huge influence on making sure that the kids have a positive experience and also one that is not necessarily high pressure. The club has a huge influence as well. We've been at two different clubs with three different kids. At club "A", the parents were much more involved and parent politics were prevalent. Trainers and coaches werre susceptible to parents that kissed up to them. The atmosphere wasn't the best. At club "B", parent politics are frowned upon. If a parent gets too weird, they'll give the family the players card and tell them to find a new club along with telling them something like "thisclub is not the best fit for you." Club "B" is a great environment and the stress and pressure are a lot less than that at club "A" are.

[Unregistered]

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. I still think that the hockey & baseball parents can be just as bad, though.

Anyway, a lot of what you describe is also dependent on the club and the parents. Parents can have a huge influence on making sure that the kids have a positive experience and also one that is not necessarily high pressure. The club has a huge influence as well. We've been at two different clubs with three different kids. At club "A", the parents were much more involved and parent politics were prevalent. Trainers and coaches werre susceptible to parents that kissed up to them. The atmosphere wasn't the best. At club "B", parent politics are frowned upon. If a parent gets too weird, they'll give the family the players card and tell them to find a new club along with telling them something like "thisclub is not the best fit for you." Club "B" is a great environment and the stress and pressure are a lot less than that at club "A" are.

Thanks for your response. Absolutely there are bad parents in nearly every children's activity today. I was lucky, the teams my children were on had mostly level headed parents ( there were exceptions ) , but they didn't play in anything near the structure that exists today. I kind of feel sorry for today's parents. It was much easier just a few years ago. I actually gave advice to the parent of a player I knew, based on that parent's knowledge of the skills of one of my own children, so he asked me for my advice. That parent's player actually ended up playing as a pro.

[Unregistered]

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. I still think that the hockey & baseball parents can be just as bad, though.

Anyway, a lot of what you describe is also dependent on the club and the parents. Parents can have a huge influence on making sure that the kids have a positive experience and also one that is not necessarily high pressure. The club has a huge influence as well. We've been at two different clubs with three different kids. At club "A", the parents were much more involved and parent politics were prevalent. Trainers and coaches werre susceptible to parents that kissed up to them. The atmosphere wasn't the best. At club "B", parent politics are frowned upon. If a parent gets too weird, they'll give the family the players card and tell them to find a new club along with telling them something like "thisclub is not the best fit for you." Club "B" is a great environment and the stress and pressure are a lot less than that at club "A" are.

Would you mind identifying "Club B"? (I'm interested in your more positive experience, so identifying "Club A" isn't necessary.) Though I will give our family's current club at least another year, I'm tiring of the environment there--and would like to be ready to explore other options.

[Unregistered]

Would you mind identifying "Club B"? (I'm interested in your more positive experience, so identifying "Club A" isn't necessary.) Though I will give our family's current club at least another year, I'm tiring of the environment there--and would like to be ready to explore other options.

Be careful with this because there is a big difference between when coaches are accessible and intolerant and inaccessible and intolerant. Contrary to the opinion of many coaches on this forum, parents do have the right to be involved. They are footing the bill and no one is ever going to be more invested in a player than their parents. That is a good thing. Like anything in life though if that right is abused then it should be lost but there needs to be dialogue involved because coaches are not always right. Coaches miss on more players than they hit.

[Unregistered]

Contrary to the opinion of many coaches on this forum, parents do have the right to be involved. They are footing the bill and no one is ever going to be more invested in a player than their parents. That is a good thing. Like anything in life though if that right is abused then it should be lost but there needs to be dialogue involved because coaches are not always right. Coaches miss on more players than they hit.

No disagreement from me about any of this.

What baffles me is how the coach perspective you describe could represent a sustainable business practice in girls' soccer. Objectively, the stakes for girls are not very high. Is hope for a soccer scholarship so desperate--and why, for families who apparently can afford to spend thousands per year, per kid, for years, for club fees and travel? As for glory, would playing on a national team or for Anson Dorrance clearly be an optimal outcome in the larger scheme of a young student-athlete's life? Why should parents with talented girls submissively put themselves at the mercy of coaches, club or college, for the opportunity to play and be "identified"? Don't good coaches (for their livelihoods) need higher-end talent more than good players need higher-end coaches? Or is elite girls' soccer basically an irrational market--where the various costs and the intensity of competition generally seem disproportionate in relation to the rewards?

I was simply inquiring about the poster's positive observations/experience, since I'd like to be ready to explore a relatively saner approach to this endeavor.

[Unregistered]

I don't think that but the strength of some of those Stars teams suggest that it's been one heck of a draw whether you agree with it or not, and whether you like it or not, and note that the statement was qualified with (especially at older age groups).

The world of youth soccer has changed dramtically over the last two years and the forces that created those older Stars teams no longer actually exist. If your child is a U17 or older they had much fewer options and basically were forced in the direction of the team that could recruit the strongest base of players. Once that team started to standout and winning things like state cups it was virtually impossible for other teams to catch them and since the state cup path was really the only game in town and everyone had to go through them to get anything else done they could sustain a virtual lock on the top talent in the state. The scenario the younger players face is completely different because there are now so many choices that can go in a bunch of different directions. That is why you have these threads about the younger age groups exploding like they have because the landscape has completely changed and as much as some people want to claim there is, there really isn't any clear cut "best" way to go about things any longer. Now it is all about finding the right fit and that is completely subjective. So if you really understand what is going on at the younger ages then you will know that what a club's older teams did to establish themselves are nowhere near relavant today.

This was posted in the ECNL Preview thread. It speaks to the very real paradigm shift that is occurring in youth soccer. It was just a few years ago that there was only one road to go down and coaches/clubs could pretty much dictate their terms everyone. If your player had talent and aspirations to pursue soccer into college they really had no other option but to go play for whomever was the top dog team in the state. There really just wasn't many ways around that top dog team and the way the system was structured only one team reaped all of the exposure. That is not the way things work now. We now have multiple roads teams can follow and that has turned youth soccer into much more of a buyers market. The sad this is all of those roads are pretty watered down so no one is really able to deliver the type of prestige many are claiming they can deliver and without that prestige there won't be much exposure. Parents will figure this all out. As a result coaches who can't cater to the whims of demanding parents are going to find themselves sitting in a corner with just the desperate parents who will believe anything. Typically that is not the profile of parent with a high end soccer player. Nowadays those parents know too much and don't have to take the crap like their predecessors did.

[Unregistered]

Be careful with this because there is a big difference between when coaches are accessible and intolerant and inaccessible and intolerant. Contrary to the opinion of many coaches on this forum, parents do have the right to be involved.

Parents might have the right to be involved but they don't have the right to meddle. Quite frankly, I don't have the time to meddle and be a "helicopter" parent. Part of the reason that I chose the club for my children that I did and entrusted the trainers there is because I totally trust them. If I find it necessary to meddle in things, my kids are at the wrong club. Clubs that permit parent politics to permeate the atmosphere are setting themselves up for failure and/or unhappy families.

[Unregistered]

Parents might have the right to be involved but they don't have the right to meddle. Quite frankly, I don't have the time to meddle and be a "helicopter" parent. Part of the reason that I chose the club for my children that I did and entrusted the trainers there is because I totally trust them. If I find it necessary to meddle in things, my kids are at the wrong club. Clubs that permit parent politics to permeate the atmosphere are setting themselves up for failure and/or unhappy families.

Totally disagree which is why I love the idea of having multiple choices. I would never let my child play for some of the self centered *****s I have run across out there. If I can't access them and discuss what they want from her I have absolutely no use for them. Different strokes for different folks.. its a good thing.

[Unregistered]

Totally disagree which is why I love the idea of having multiple choices. I would never let my child play for some of the self centered *****s I have run across out there. If I can't access them and discuss what they want from her I have absolutely no use for them. Different strokes for different folks.. its a good thing.

Choice is a good thing unless you are trying to convince everyone you have all of the answers.

[Unregistered]

If I can't access them and discuss what they want from her I have absolutely no use for them.

At some point kids need to step up and take responsibility for themselves. THe kids should know what is expected of them. How a kid performs in training and games is not the responsibility of the parents. It's the responsibility of the kids. I always crack up when parents are meddling in the play of their 15 year old, or older, kid. It's the classic "helicopter" parent syndrome. I'm even hearing stories of the parents of college graduates that want to attend job interviews with their children. Simply amazing!

[Unregistered]

At some point kids need to step up and take responsibility for themselves. THe kids should know what is expected of them. How a kid performs in training and games is not the responsibility of the parents. It's the responsibility of the kids. I always crack up when parents are meddling in the play of their 15 year old, or older, kid. It's the classic "helicopter" parent syndrome. I'm even hearing stories of the parents of college graduates that want to attend job interviews with their children. Simply amazing!

That is the problem here. You hear something and accept some urban legend as fact instead of delving in and dealing with the actual issues. Just because a parent wishes to be involved does not mean they are meddlesome. Sorry, your type of thinking is ancient and does not reflect they world we live in. Kids have advocates in today's world. Time you get over it.

[Unregistered]

At some point kids need to step up and take responsibility for themselves. THe kids should know what is expected of them. How a kid performs in training and games is not the responsibility of the parents. It's the responsibility of the kids. I always crack up when parents are meddling in the play of their 15 year old, or older, kid. It's the classic "helicopter" parent syndrome. I'm even hearing stories of the parents of college graduates that want to attend job interviews with their children. Simply amazing!

Got it. Parents should simply shut up, when not cheering respectfully from the sidelines, and write the checks (and do the driving) for their kids--who "need to step up and take responsibility for themselves." This really does make sense. Anybody who disagrees could only be a meddler-helicopter-politicker of a parent--since signing up for club soccer should mean that we "totally trust" coaches always to set aside their own interests and commit themselves thoughtfully to doing what's best for our kids as individuals. The very idea that kids might need help navigating some confusing or stressful situation is absurd.

[Unregistered]

That is the problem here. You hear something and accept some urban legend as fact instead of delving in and dealing with the actual issues. Just because a parent wishes to be involved does not mean they are meddlesome. Sorry, your type of thinking is ancient and does not reflect they world we live in. Kids have advocates in today's world. Time you get over it.

Sorry, folks.......if you find it necessary to meddle/hover and micro-manage all the details of your kids' experiences, do yourself a favor and find a new club. Me? I don't have time to do it. My line of thinking is not ancient and it has served my kids just fine and will continue to do so. Parent politics in clubs are what is ancient.

It's kind of funny that you've put yourself into a discussion that covers the ECNL. One of the tenets of the league is getting the kids to become a little more responsible for their actions and play. THe more progressive clubs in the league, when the kid get older, put the kids on a bus for the away games. Seeing that your child requires hand-holding from mommy and/or daddy, I seriously doubt if they are cut out for the league or life beyond the league - soccer and the real world of academics and a career.