Preliminary Spring Maple Brackets

[Unregistered]

BmN4AY

To the people getting after the Stars and NEFC:

Are you really serious?

What results did these U12 teams fail to get in the NEP? In 10 games against good U13 teams, the Stars went 5-4-1, they only lost to Stars West U13, NEFC South Shore U13, NEFC Central U13, and Aztecs. All of these teams are top U13 Mass teams.

NEFC South Shore U12 went 4-2-2 in 8 games, they beat Stars West U13, tied Aztecs U13 and their only losses were to NEFC South Shore U13 and NEFC Central U13.

What results did you expect them to get?

The Stars can't play in the NEP Premiership U13 league. Because Stars ECNL is entering the league, Stars will have 3 teams trying to play and that would make the league ineligible as a State Cup qualifying league. NEFC has the same issue.

So what is their option?

You can't enter MAPLE in the spring of the U13 year. Even if they did they would have to play MAPLE D3.

You could play U13 Championship, but the teams both finished near the top of the Premiership division!

The competition in the U12 Blue division will be better.

U12 MAPLE is not competitive. Results are only kept so the teams can be placed to ensure some competitive balance. There is no promotion and relegation. There are no divisions. Teams are moved up or down to ensure the games are competitive.

Becuase of this, the league has all the discretion. There is no "earning" promotion. Galway did not earn promotion. No one earned the right to play in a higher or lower division. They simply had certain results and will be placed based on how they did.

So if the two best teams in the state want to rejoin MAPLE, and there is no promotion and relegation and teams are simply grouped based on how they do, shouldn't these two teams play in the blue? They would both be top 10 or better U13 teams.

This is not about recruiting as much as people seem to think it is, this is strictly about trying to get these teams into the best atmosphere they can get into. Both clubs are looking out for all their teams.

Good post. To me, GU12 Blue MAPLE bracket means the best teams at that age level. I would think teams going into the Blue division would want to play these two teams for the competition. If you do not like the competition you shouldn't be in the top division. JMO

[ForzaAzzurri]

Good post. To me, GU12 Blue MAPLE bracket means the best teams at that age level. I would think teams going into the Blue division would want to play these two teams for the competition. If you do not like the competition you shouldn't be in the top division. JMO

Good post? Are you for real?

That post is laughable in that it is inaccurate (and preposterous) in the arguments that matter most. i.e., wherever there is any reference to MAPLE.

#1 - You can't enter MAPLE in the spring of the U13 year. Even if they did they would have to play MAPLE D3.

May I direct you to the Spring Registration Is Now Open page on the maple website, where it specifically says: "U13 - New teams will be accepted in Division 3. Division 3 sections will be randomly mixed"? Then, take a look at the current "U13 Open Divison" and you will see a handful of teams that did not play MAPLE U13 in the Fall. Yeah, they are all in the equivalent of D3...but that is exactly the point many of us have been making...those teams in D1 and D2 EARNED their place and every newcomer has to start at D3 (again, see my earlier post about Valeo).

#2 - U12 MAPLE is not competitive. Results are only kept so the teams can be placed to ensure some competitive balance. There is no promotion and relegation. There are no divisions. Teams are moved up or down to ensure the games are competitive.

Hah! This one is too funny. "MAPLE is not competitive". Ummm...isn't that one of the reasons all those clubs left MAPLE? ;) So they could focus on "development" and not have to worry about winning and losing? You know, because MAPLE is...well...too competitive? "There is no promotion and relegation". OK, this one is too easy to debunk, so let me just copy and paste straight from Article 6A with specific regard to how U12 teams are organized in the spring of U12 year: "Promote/Relegate" based on fall results". Could it be any clearer?

#3 - There is no "earning" promotion...No one earned the right to play in a higher or lower division. They simply had certain results and will be placed based on how they did.

Seriously? Seriously? This kind of irrational double-speak doesn't even deserve to be addressed for fear of lending any iota of legitimacy to it.

Again, no one is questioning the strength of these two teams. It is simply a question of being fair to teams/clubs who have "played" by the rules", as others have put it, in Maple. Decisions have consequences, and last summer these teams made some conscious decisions of their own free will---just as ALL teams did. Now, don't expect to make it someone else's problem.

[Unregistered]

So some clubs do not play by the rules. If this is news to you, you had to be born yesterday.

Stars have been re-writing the rules everywhere. NEFC has to do it to stay competitive with Stars. That is the way it is. There are examples of this everywhere. This one is just closer to home.

[Unregistered]

So some clubs do not play by the rules. If this is news to you, you had to be born yesterday.

Stars have been re-writing the rules everywhere. NEFC has to do it to stay competitive with Stars. That is the way it is. There are examples of this everywhere. This one is just closer to home.

Forza coaches boys, so I'm not sure that this issue is any "closer to home" for him than for anyone else. Fairness and playing by the rules are overarching issues about which many are concerned.

[Unregistered]

Forza,

You aren't accurate. You did point out one thing wrong in my post, but that's it.

Good post? Are you for real?

That post is laughable in that it is inaccurate (and preposterous) in the arguments that matter most. i.e., wherever there is any reference to MAPLE.

#1 - You can't enter MAPLE in the spring of the U13 year. Even if they did they would have to play MAPLE D3.

May I direct you to the Spring Registration Is Now Open page on the maple website, where it specifically says: "U13 - New teams will be accepted in Division 3. Division 3 sections will be randomly mixed"? Then, take a look at the current "U13 Open Divison" and you will see a handful of teams that did not play MAPLE U13 in the Fall. Yeah, they are all in the equivalent of D3...but that is exactly the point many of us have been making...those teams in D1 and D2 EARNED their place and every newcomer has to start at D3 (again, see my earlier post about Valeo).

This is only a year old. I'm sorry that I screwed it up. It doesn't change that the teams would have to play MAPLE U13 Division 3. This is not something these teams should be doing. Last year, MAPLE changed the rule. I blew it here.

#2 - U12 MAPLE is not competitive. Results are only kept so the teams can be placed to ensure some competitive balance. There is no promotion and relegation. There are no divisions. Teams are moved up or down to ensure the games are competitive.

Hah! This one is too funny. "MAPLE is not competitive". Ummm...isn't that one of the reasons all those clubs left MAPLE? ;) So they could focus on "development" and not have to worry about winning and losing? You know, because MAPLE is...well...too competitive? "There is no promotion and relegation". OK, this one is too easy to debunk, so let me just copy and paste straight from Article 6A with specific regard to how U12 teams are organized in the spring of U12 year: "Promote/Relegate" based on fall results". Could it be any clearer?

You conveniently dismiss the passages in the constitution and bylaws which designate U11 and U12 as developmental and not competitive. This is why the sections are colors and not divisions.

Notice how the words "Promote/Relegate" are in quotations in the bylaws. This is because in actuality, there is no technical promotion and relegation as there is in the older age groups. There is no guideline to govern how the league does this. They can use their discretion.

Look at how the U11 and U12 age groups are worded versus the specific wording of the older age groups.

#3 - There is no "earning" promotion...No one earned the right to play in a higher or lower division. They simply had certain results and will be placed based on how they did.

Seriously? Seriously? This kind of irrational double-speak doesn't even deserve to be addressed for fear of lending any iota of legitimacy to it.

Again, no one is questioning the strength of these two teams. It is simply a question of being fair to teams/clubs who have "played" by the rules", as others have put it, in Maple. Decisions have consequences, and last summer these teams made some conscious decisions of their own free will---just as ALL teams did. Now, don't expect to make it someone else's problem.

There are no rules being violated, and this is also a common practice of MAPLE.

The league places new teams to the U11 and U12 age groups from other states and other leagues in higher divisions on a consistent basis as a matter of practice when these teams warrant the placement. The league shuffles teams all the time. When a team smokes everyone in a lower division, they are likely to move up two sections. Just look in the archived standings for examples.

Initially when the Appendix was published, it actually stated that there would be four teams moved up and four teams moved down, which was impossible since the divisions are different numbers in each season (10 in the fall and 8 in the spring).

The wording has now been removed. Now they just have the words Promote/Relegate in quotes, indicating it's simply moving teams up and down based on strength.

You can't define it because the league does not define this. They do this purposely so that they can do what they need to do to group the teams. There are no guidelines, no rules for promotion and relegation, that is why they can do what they want here.

The wording is vague for U11 as well. "Re-align by strength - e.g. top 2 from each fall section in “strong” section, 3 & 4 from each fall section in 2nd level section and so on" They can't actually do that because there are so many sections they would have a top division of more than 10 teams in the spring. That's why they use e.g., exempli gratia, "for example," it's just a reference point.

In the constitution it is clear that U10-U12 is developmental. Section 8 is pretty clear with how the league treats U13 and U14 versus how they treat U11 and U12.

The verbiage that permits the league's discretion is also clear.

The league went to non competitive for U12 and younger at the same time Mass Youth Soccer stopped sponsoring a State Cup for U12. The decision was made that U12 and younger was developmental, that such a crucial competition with advancement to a regional competition was a bad idea for kids this age.

You might want to argue that there should be a U12 State Cup. You might want to argue that there should be a specific policy for promotion and relegation for U12. But in actuality, there is no such thing. There is no U12 State Cup, and there is no legal policy for promotion and relegation for U12. They will "promote' teams that do well in lower sections by moving them up for better tests and they will "relegate" teams that struggle because clearly they don't belong.

Any team can enter at U12, and it is at the discretion of the league where they are placed. At U13, these teams must be placed in D3. At U12, it's the league's decision.

Nobody is breaking any rules, the league is not breaking or bending any rules to allow Stars and NEFC to allow these two U12 Girls teams to play in the Blue division.

Because these divisions are developmental, U10-U12, no team has earned promotion or relegation. They simply will be placed in the appropriate sections, league play being the primary information for the decision, and the league's opinion is all that matters.

Both teams have strong MAPLE play to back up standing. The last time Stars was in the league, they played in the blue division and their Goal difference was 31. The next best goal difference was 3. The NEFC team played in the Irwin Cup last spring and qualified for the quarterfinals. These will be the best two teams in MAPLE when they enter.

No one is rewriting any rules. Nobody is playing by the rules any more than anyone else. The rules are clear, it's just posters who have no idea about them.

[Unregistered]

Too bad all around

Biggest issue if I'm on of those two teams is spring MAPLE will largely be a waste of time, with the exception of the week when those two play each other. There is no one else listed that will be competitive with them. Really, it's too bad for the kids' development. All they have to look forward to now is the Irwin Cup final, where they will surely play each other. Besides that it's a lost season.

[Unregistered]

Biggest issue if I'm on of those two teams is spring MAPLE will largely be a waste of time, with the exception of the week when those two play each other. There is no one else listed that will be competitive with them. Really, it's too bad for the kids' development. All they have to look forward to now is the Irwin Cup final, where they will surely play each other. Besides that it's a lost season.

Yes, but it goes back to this. As good as those clubs are, it is not about the development that they promise. They are not striving to challenge themselves or for the kids to get better by playing better competition. That is evident by the fact that the parents are on these boards bashing the other competition they will see in MAPLE (yet, they want to play there, puzzling). Do I think its the best thing for the kids not to challenge themselves ? No. The one thing I do see here is that it makes the most sound financial decision for MAPLE. It may not be the most ethical one, but it is the most business savvy one. You don't want to tick off the Stars or NEFC, they are huge and pay a chunk of the bills. So let the parents gripe, we all know the decision will be made based on finance, not ethics when all is said and done.

[Unregistered]

Biggest issue if I'm on of those two teams is spring MAPLE will largely be a waste of time, with the exception of the week when those two play each other. There is no one else listed that will be competitive with them. Really, it's too bad for the kids' development. All they have to look forward to now is the Irwin Cup final, where they will surely play each other. Besides that it's a lost season.

Let me say, I'm not a parent or coach of either one of these teams Stars or NEFC. There are alot of valid points on this Thread. It seems like for maybe one of these teams or both, playing GU13 in NEP was competitive but took its toll on players physically. Some on this Thread would have them play GU13 NEP in the Spring and who cares if a smaller player gets hurts it's their problem. It seems the parents had a say and wanted their daughters to play their own age bracket. NEP doesn't have a GU12 11v11 bracket MAPLE does. I think parents/coaches that have players on a BLUE DIVISION team would want to play these two teams. If they do not, they shouldn't be in the top division.

[Unregistered]

Let me say, I'm not a parent or coach of either one of these teams Stars or NEFC. There are alot of valid points on this Thread. It seems like for maybe one of these teams or both, playing GU13 in NEP was competitive but took its toll on players physically. Some on this Thread would have them play GU13 NEP in the Spring and who cares if a smaller player gets hurts it's their problem. It seems the parents had a say and wanted their daughters to play their own age bracket. NEP doesn't have a GU12 11v11 bracket MAPLE does. I think parents/coaches that have players on a BLUE DIVISION team would want to play these two teams. If they do not, they shouldn't be in the top division.

They chose to play up I cannot believe that parents coaches etc did not realize that older players might be bigger. They also chose to leave Maple and should get no preferential treatment especially at the expense of teams that stayed in and played by the rules. Sometimes in life you make bad decisions and you suffer the consequences. I think that would be a great life lesson for all concerned.

[Unregistered]

Let me say, I'm not a parent or coach of either one of these teams Stars or NEFC. There are alot of valid points on this Thread. It seems like for maybe one of these teams or both, playing GU13 in NEP was competitive but took its toll on players physically. Some on this Thread would have them play GU13 NEP in the Spring and who cares if a smaller player gets hurts it's their problem. It seems the parents had a say and wanted their daughters to play their own age bracket. NEP doesn't have a GU12 11v11 bracket MAPLE does. I think parents/coaches that have players on a BLUE DIVISION team would want to play these two teams. If they do not, they shouldn't be in the top division.

I believe that most teams in blue would welcome the challenge. Most people it seems have a problem with the way these two clubs dictate terms and conditions of where they play. If indeed the switch was driven by safety concerns for the players I applaud the decision to play in an age appropriate division. I do not believe that nefc is as dominant at 11v11 as they were at 8v8. I also believe that the Stars have surpassed nefc in terms of talent. Jmo

[Unregistered]

I believe that most teams in blue would welcome the challenge. Most people it seems have a problem with the way these two clubs dictate terms and conditions of where they play. If indeed the switch was driven by safety concerns for the players I applaud the decision to play in an age appropriate division. I do not believe that nefc is as dominant at 11v11 as they were at 8v8. I also believe that the Stars have surpassed nefc in terms of talent. Jmo

The posters on this thread are by far the least informed.

The teams had to move out of the U13 Premiership in NEP because of the fact that you can't have three teams from one club in the same division if a league is going to be a State Cup qualifying league.

Both teams did just fine in U13 Premiership. The other choices are the U13 Championship division, which is not strong at all, or MAPLE U13 Division 3, also not strong. So instead of playing up, they are playing in their own age group.

How hard is that to understand?

[Unregistered]

The posters on this thread are by far the least informed.

The teams had to move out of the U13 Premiership in NEP because of the fact that you can't have three teams from one club in the same division if a league is going to be a State Cup qualifying league.

Both teams did just fine in U13 Premiership. The other choices are the U13 Championship division, which is not strong at all, or MAPLE U13 Division 3, also not strong. So instead of playing up, they are playing in their own age group.

How hard is that to understand?

They knew all about state cup qualifications before they decided to join NEP. I also believe that by virtue of NEFC BB finish in the Irwin cup they could have played U13 D1. They chose to leave now be accountable for your actions. I know accountability is a dirty word these days.

[Unregistered]

The posters on this thread are by far the least informed.

The teams had to move out of the U13 Premiership in NEP because of the fact that you can't have three teams from one club in the same division if a league is going to be a State Cup qualifying league.

Both teams did just fine in U13 Premiership. The other choices are the U13 Championship division, which is not strong at all, or MAPLE U13 Division 3, also not strong. So instead of playing up, they are playing in their own age group.

How hard is that to understand?

It is not hard to understand, it is just that no one outside the organization involved cares what situation brought them here. It is not our problem, the organization knew about these guidelines before it went to the NEP, no? The organization also knew about what divisions in MAPLE were strong/not strong before leaving, no? They also assumed that they would come back and push aside whoever they need to in order to be a State Cup qualifying league. We all get it, ethics are not a factor for the organization or for the league. The team will play where it wants, when it wants. The parents of the teams involved have made their morals very clear on this thread. I UNDERSTAND. POINT TAKEN, I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.

[Unregistered]

It is not hard to understand, it is just that no one outside the organization involved cares what situation brought them here. It is not our problem, the organization knew about these guidelines before it went to the NEP, no? The organization also knew about what divisions in MAPLE were strong/not strong before leaving, no? They also assumed that they would come back and push aside whoever they need to in order to be a State Cup qualifying league. We all get it, ethics are not a factor for the organization or for the league. The team will play where it wants, when it wants. The parents of the teams involved have made their morals very clear on this thread. I UNDERSTAND. POINT TAKEN, I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.

The parameters changed.

The league thought it was following Mass Youth guidelines by creating a two age division, making all teams eligible. Mass Youth complained, but is allowing NEP to fix for the Spring.

A lot of conjecture and complaining on this thread, but very little information.

[Unregistered]

I'd rather place high in Blue knowing those teams were in the mix than to win blue because they (NEFC and Stars D) were artificially placed in a lower division to accommodate some complaining parents.

Either way having those teams come back to Maple is good for Maple, it's good for the competition level, and it's good for the players.

Let the tests be on the field...not on this forum.

NSU parent