2012 Boys Soccer Verbal Commitments

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Many parents (some who have even posted in this forum using their own name) steer their kids toward a certain college based on status and prestige. In their cocktail party/country club circles, higher end NESCAC schools like Williams & Amherst carry as much perceived status ast Harvard, Princeton, or Yale. IN fact, there is a feeling that the Williams, for example is harder to get into than Harvard, Princeton, or Yale necause they are smaller, more exclusive, and depend on wealthier family and legact donations.

So while many of us agree that s kid should pick a school based on fit, need, and academic, social, and sporting goals, there is an arrogant element out there that just doesn't care about those things for their kids.

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So while many of us agree that s kid should pick a school based on fit, need, and academic, social, and sporting goals, there is an arrogant element out there that just doesn't care about those things for their kids.

You lost me. You mean kids are going to Amherst and Williams because their parents want them to go there and not because of fit, need, academic/social/sporting goals? But the ones who go to Harvard, Yale and Princeton actually want to go to those schools based on the criteria mentioned? Also, are you saying that parents aren't interested in Harvard, Yale, Princeton?

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LOL at anybody who thinks Amherst/Williams is better than Harvard/Yale/Princeton.

[Unregistered]

LOL at anybody who thinks Amherst/Williams is better than Harvard/Yale/Princeton.

And give me Swarthmore, U Chicago, Carleton, Hopkins and Wash U over Williams and Amherst any day.... more intellectual schools that aren't weighted down trying to win the Sears Cup every year.

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And give me Swarthmore, U Chicago, Carleton, Hopkins and Wash U over Williams and Amherst any day.... more intellectual schools that aren't weighted down trying to win the Sears Cup every year.

wow - can you say intellectual elitism? You think athletes at these schools are taking basket weaving courses and dropping out before graduation? Oh, and by the way, last year Swarthmore was ranked #1 in D3 for a good part of the year - you going to try to say those kids appeared out of nowhere on their campus? Reality is that all of these schools are extremely strong academically and any kids there are there b/c they can also do the work. Get a clue.

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The recent rise in Harvard B-Ball and football can in a lot of ways be tied to the change in the cost of going to Harvard. Good Students, Good Players who may have chosen a non ivey Div 1 school are giving the Ivies a second look. Harvard (and other wealthier Ivies) have decided to invest more in students than buildings (although they may have built all the buildings they can) I think the income level below which a student goe to Harvard for $0.00 is $80K and above that it is 10% of income. This needs based help is a great recruiting tool especially for students in the midwest and south. It cuts a lot of the scholarship BS right out of the equation. It also is pushing alot marginal ISL students out of the running.

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wow - can you say intellectual elitism? You think athletes at these schools are taking basket weaving courses and dropping out before graduation? Oh, and by the way, last year Swarthmore was ranked #1 in D3 for a good part of the year - you going to try to say those kids appeared out of nowhere on their campus? Reality is that all of these schools are extremely strong academically and any kids there are there b/c they can also do the work. Get a clue.

Are you contesting that the NESCACs and Williams in particular are not more athletically-oriented than the competition academically elsewhere in D3? You are wrong. Do you know the % of varsity athletes at Williams? Not saying the Williams kids are not as smart, at least in the usual measured ways, but it is not as intellectual as some of the others mentioned. And any decent college guidebook will tell you that.

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Harvard, Princeton, Amherst, Williams. Isn't this kind of like arguing over which tastes better, the pheasant or the quail?

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Are you contesting that the NESCACs and Williams in particular are not more athletically-oriented than the competition academically elsewhere in D3? You are wrong. Do you know the % of varsity athletes at Williams? Not saying the Williams kids are not as smart, at least in the usual measured ways, but it is not as intellectual as some of the others mentioned. And any decent college guidebook will tell you that.

It's the use of the phrase "weighted down" that's so incredibly off-putting and elitist sounding.

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It's the use of the phrase "weighted down" that's so incredibly off-putting and elitist sounding.

I think you're overreacting to that wording. Do you not agree that Williams puts more emphasis on athletics as an institution than most of the others named? You are accusing me of out-eliting Williams? I understand the perennial rankings that Williams and Amherst maintain, along with the overall outstanding reputation of the NESCACs in general, which are certainly well-deserved but the perception is (and I think to some extent true) that they are more cookie-cutter New England-style boarding schoolish than the out of region D3 elites with, yes, a heavier emphasis on athletics (and consistent with the constant theme on this site about the quality of NESCAC soccer and the alleged number of D1 level players who frequent the rosters).

[Unregistered]

And give me Swarthmore, U Chicago, Carleton, Hopkins and Wash U over Williams and Amherst any day.... more intellectual schools that aren't weighted down trying to win the Sears Cup every year.

Perhaps they just are not as good at recruiting the academically gifted athletes as Amherst and Williams or perhaps the more academically gifted athletes are seeking out Amherst and Williams more than the schools you would take any day.

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Harvard, Princeton, Amherst, Williams. Isn't this kind of like arguing over which tastes better, the pheasant or the quail?

Well put.

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Perhaps they just are not as good at recruiting the academically gifted athletes as Amherst and Williams or perhaps the more academically gifted athletes are seeking out Amherst and Williams more than the schools you would take any day.

Nice try, and it's true that these schools sometimes outperform the NESCACs in soccer, but they do not take as many academically gifted athletes. They are not as athlete-focused in admissions. That's the difference. And except in New England, the others can draw just as well as the NESCACs.

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Harvard, Princeton, Amherst, Williams. Isn't this kind of like arguing over which tastes better, the pheasant or the quail?

Cornish game hen. Any day.

[Unregistered]

Nice try, and it's true that these schools sometimes outperform the NESCACs in soccer, but they do not take as many academically gifted athletes. They are not as athlete-focused in admissions. That's the difference. And except in New England, the others can draw just as well as the NESCACs.

But not often. JHU, U Chicago & Wash U all proudly tout their Learfield Directors' Cup performance on their websites so somebody is focused on it. Wash U considers itself a "leader and pioneer in the world of student athletics" and you can be certain JHU men's and women's lacrosse has the pull it wants in admissions. They did not become great schools without an athletic game plan. With enrollments of 5000, 6000 and 7000 they are considerably larger than the NESCACs. Last year Wash U and JHU joined Williams, Middlebury, Amherst, Bowdoin and Tufts in the top 25 of the Director's Cup. No accident.