Not a ref

[Unregistered]

Give me a break! The U9 players have invested about 2 seasons in a sport most will drop by 6 th grade. The SC finalists have largely invested 11years in a sport many will play in college. They deserve a ref who is equally invested in the game, not some kid with a "drivers permit" reffing to pick up some extra gas money. That ref belongs at the U9 game. Those U16 players have played 100's of games to get to that competition. Those U 9 kids are just as happy playing in the sprinkler. Satisfaction?? You gravely short sell the huge positive impact a good ref can have on a game, especially an adolescent male game. These ref are thanked by the winners AND losers after the games. Do not dismiss experience as meaningless. Next time you want surgery, try handing yourself over to that brand new resident. Might work, might not, but who cares, right? As long as they mean well and what right do you have to get someone better anyway?

Your response is all over the place. In order to become an experienced Referee, one has to participate in matches that challenge your abilities. Just as a player. Had your 16 year old boys played against , say Barcelona Youth U -16, their shortcomiings would be exposed , and the bar would be set for their improvement. The fact that in your opinion that players have " invested " more than others is irrelevent. Who decides what players investment trumps others? Every match is important to each and every player. Are you aware of the declining numbers of Referees, year to year? What do you think the most definitive influence on that decrease is? Which State cup match should be a Referee's first? Not yours, because it is your sons team?

You short sell the positive impact properly schooled and skilled players can have on their own game. The Referee is a judge of the behavior of the players. The consequences for violating the laws of the game are based on player performance, much more than a Referee's judgement.

I am not dismissing experience, on the contrary, I think it is very important. However experience alone is not the hallmark of a good Referee. I know for a fact there are younger, less expereinced Referees that are better than me. They have better fitness, have recently played the game under its current umbrella, and some may even be a lower grade. An expereinced Referee can still learn from working with and observing less experienced Referees . At the highest levels , being a Referee is sort of like an art.

The feeling of entitlement by parents involving the aprticipation of their children in games, actually can do more harm than good in the long term development of children. Let them play, stand back,let them deal with the variables without your meddling. Let them figure it out, adapt, and move forward.

[Unregistered]

To posters #10 & #11:

Poster 10: Saw the second half of the game referenced by poster #9 - my kid was playing on that field next. She WAS a disaster, made terrible calls, and had no control over the game. Yep, let's face facts - 16 year old boys are gonna need a firm ref on the field and this girl was not a good match up.

Poster 11: yes, this is YOUTH sports but the teams that make round robins and subsequent semi's and finals deserve experienced refs who are enerally going to make the right calls when they need to be made. The teams work hard to get to this point in the competition and incompetent refs demean and negate that hard work with just a few poor calls.

I get that the refs will make errors but inexperience and incompetence is just not acceptable.

Poster # 11 responding.

" deserve"
" demean"
" negate"
" right calls "
" poor calls "

"Inexperience and incompetence "

How long have you been around Youth Sports? You think what you are writing is anything new, unique ?

30 years ago , most parens's didn't care what happened during a child's game. Children went on to College, Pro ranks, became contributors to society. They played games, learned varios skills, and made it work.

Your above words are only YOUR opinion, and if that of the players, only bacause of parental influence and meddling.

My children had so many Referees that didn't meet your lofty standards, that if I listed them all , it would take most of your waking hours to read the list. Get over it. Be happy your kids are healthy and able enough to run around outside on a nice Spring day.

At the end of the day, if you are doing the right type of parenting, what you think is such a great injustice to the children, will turn out to be something to laugh about when they reach adulthood.

[Unregistered]

Give me a break! The U9 players have invested about 2 seasons in a sport most will drop by 6 th grade. The SC finalists have largely invested 11years in a sport many will play in college. They deserve a ref who is equally invested in the game, not some kid with a "drivers permit" reffing to pick up some extra gas money. That ref belongs at the U9 game. Those U16 players have played 100's of games to get to that competition. Those U 9 kids are just as happy playing in the sprinkler. Satisfaction?? You gravely short sell the huge positive impact a good ref can have on a game, especially an adolescent male game. These ref are thanked by the winners AND losers after the games. Do not dismiss experience as meaningless. Next time you want surgery, try handing yourself over to that brand new resident. Might work, might not, but who cares, right? As long as they mean well and what right do you have to get someone better anyway?

And how many of the SC finalists will still be playing in 5 years? The games are important today and in a week nobody cares who won or lost.

[Unregistered]

inexperience and incompetence is just not acceptable.

Nice description of your parenting skills.

[Unregistered]

Poster # 11 responding.

" deserve"
" demean"
" negate"
" right calls "
" poor calls "

"Inexperience and incompetence "

How long have you been around Youth Sports? You think what you are writing is anything new, unique ?

30 years ago , most parens's didn't care what happened during a child's game. Children went on to College, Pro ranks, became contributors to society. They played games, learned varios skills, and made it work.

Your above words are only YOUR opinion, and if that of the players, only bacause of parental influence and meddling.

My children had so many Referees that didn't meet your lofty standards, that if I listed them all , it would take most of your waking hours to read the list. Get over it. Be happy your kids are healthy and able enough to run around outside on a nice Spring day.

At the end of the day, if you are doing the right type of parenting, what you think is such a great injustice to the children, will turn out to be something to laugh about when they reach adulthood.

I've been reffin long enough that I actually know numerous college players and even a couple of pros that I reffed when they were kids. One even made it to Serie-A. Can't think of a single instance where they talk about a youth ref negatively impacting their current situation. Not even close.

On the other hand, every player I have EVER met, including those kids, can instantly name any number of game-changing situations where they think the ref got it WAY wrong and killed the game for them. So. It's a game. A kid's game. Everyone does their best, and we shake hands afterwards. Done.

[Unregistered]

I have watched a lot of soccer games and while i have seen a lot of good ones and a some bad ones, here is some questions to ponder and how to fix them. I am the first one to say that i don't have the answers, but here it goes.

u-8/u-10 parents yelling at 12 to 14 year old refs
u-11 to -14 boys coaches yelling at refs to let boys play because they are not girls until it gets out of hand
u-12 to u-16 girls going shoulder to shoulder one falls and parents start yelling for foul on smaller player

How are you going to train younger refs especially girls when you have some coaches that intimidate a younger ref before the game even starts, please don;t say it doesn't happen i've seen it a plenty of times.

Also noticed that reffing at younger ages for young referees is a lot harder because coaches seem to micro manage their team more and are a lot harder on younger refs.

So my question is how is this solved i don't know the answer.

PLEASE NO REF BASHING BUT MAYBE WE COULD START A DECENT DIALOG

THANK G** I AM NOT A REF

"u-8/u-10 parents yelling at 12 to 14 year old refs"
I have worked at 3 different youth leagues. With some coaching education and one adult to monitor the work of the youth refs, this is VERY solvable. I've done it, and I'm no genius. It is very easy to train a youth ref to say
EITHER
"Coach, please remove that parent or I will have to leave"
OR
"Tell the kids to get a drink. I'm going to get the field marshall."
(P.S. any league that allows youth refs without adult field marshalls should be prosecuted for child endangerment)

"u-11 to -14 boys coaches yelling at refs to let boys play because they are not girls until it gets out of hand"
U11-u14 is a HUGE range. I'm going to guess that you are worried that things are getting too physical at the expense of artful play. So, I will respond that, for any reasonably serious level of competitive play, coaches should not say ANYTHING to the refs. Competitive refs have to be able to live the spirit (if not the letter) of that law.

"u-12 to u-16 girls going shoulder to shoulder one falls and parents start yelling for foul on smaller player"
Seriously, what the parents say??? who cares?
Again, I'm going to guess that what you are saying is that the referee is being influenced by something other than the LOTG at the expense of good soccer. See previous answer.



Bottom line, u-baby referees need on-site support. After that, they need to be strong enough to manage the game. If not, they need to be trained and/or replaced.

[Unregistered]

Can't think of a single instance where they talk about a youth ref negatively impacting their current situation. Not even close.

On the other hand, every player I have EVER met, including those kids, can instantly name any number of game-changing situations where they think the ref got it WAY wrong and killed the game for them.

I am so confused. Don't these two statements totally contradict each other?

And can all the ref defenders please stop with the lame "it's life" thing when it comes to inappropriate ref assignments. Bad reffing is unfair and awful for the kids playing a state championship game.

The refs in the regular season all blend together for the most part, but the championship games where a bad call, say, hands out a PK out that wins a game, are never forgotten. That kind of unfair leaves scars, and it is definitely worth at least trying to avoid.

Don't use lousy refs at championship games. I don't care how old they are, I don't care what they look like or what gender they are. Hire the good ones. You know who they are. Just do it!

[Unregistered]

I am so confused. Don't these two statements totally contradict each other?

And can all the ref defenders please stop with the lame "it's life" thing when it comes to inappropriate ref assignments. Bad reffing is unfair and awful for the kids playing a state championship game.

The refs in the regular season all blend together for the most part, but the championship games where a bad call, say, hands out a PK out that wins a game, are never forgotten. That kind of unfair leaves scars, and it is definitely worth at least trying to avoid.

Don't use lousy refs at championship games. I don't care how old they are, I don't care what they look like or what gender they are. Hire the good ones. You know who they are. Just do it!

Inappropriate Ref assignments are not the fault of the Referee. Fair is an elusive concept.


" leaves scars "



" hands out a PK out that wins a game , are never forgotten "
Are :
Players called offside when having a scoring opportunity never forgotten, because they might have been too lazy to follow the defenders line back?
Shots missed on goal on open nets ,never forgotten?
Shots made high, wide , off the goal never forgotten?
Missed critical tactical asignments allowing the other team to score never forgotten?
Missed tackles never forgotten?
Incorrect or slow decision making never forgotten?

Any scars form the above instances?

[Unregistered]

Can't think of a single instance where they talk about a youth ref negatively impacting their current situation. Not even close.

On the other hand, every player I have EVER met, including those kids, can instantly name any number of game-changing situations where they think the ref got it WAY wrong and killed the game for them.



I am so confused. Don't these two statements totally contradict each other?

Well, we are getting somewhere. You are paying attention! Good!

No, they are not contradictory. That's precisely why I posted them. To point out that BOTH are simultaneously true.

In 40 yrs of playing and 20 of coaching and 15 yrs of reffing, I have met relatively few referees who just didn't give a cr@p. Same for assignors. Most try very hard to do a good job. Of course there are bad games. EVERYONE regrets them.

The participants who go on to other successes (in soccer or whatever) are usually able to take these things in stride and see them for what they are.

In the US, we used to have to worry about the 50 yr old wannabe who is still wearing his high school letter jacket and telling high school football war stories about what could have been down at the Y. Now that guy has been replaced by a well-heeled parent in an SUV down at the club soccer field. In a way it's even sadder.

[Unregistered]

Well, we are getting somewhere. You are paying attention! Good!

No, they are not contradictory. That's precisely why I posted them. To point out that BOTH are simultaneously true.

In 40 yrs of playing and 20 of coaching and 15 yrs of reffing, I have met relatively few referees who just didn't give a cr@p. Same for assignors. Most try very hard to do a good job. Of course there are bad games. EVERYONE regrets them.

The participants who go on to other successes (in soccer or whatever) are usually able to take these things in stride and see them for what they are.

In the US, we used to have to worry about the 50 yr old wannabe who is still wearing his high school letter jacket and telling high school football war stories about what could have been down at the Y. Now that guy has been replaced by a well-heeled parent in an SUV down at the club soccer field. In a way it's even sadder.

And don't forget the soccer moms sitting in their chairs protesting the calls of the AR. If I hadn't experienced it myself a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have believed it. I can't belive such arrogance could be rooted from extreme ignorance.

[Unregistered]

And don't forget the soccer moms sitting in their chairs protesting the calls of the AR. If I hadn't experienced it myself a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have believed it. I can't belive such arrogance could be rooted from extreme ignorance.

People get emotional about their kids, and this shocks you? Is this your first soccer game? Your first sporting event? Have you seen what fans in England do when Man U looses? Are you from Mars????

[Unregistered]

And don't forget the soccer moms sitting in their chairs protesting the calls of the AR. If I hadn't experienced it myself a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have believed it. I can't belive such arrogance could be rooted from extreme ignorance.

This soccer mom never sits in a chair. Shocked at the unbelievable reffing this year at State Cup. Between games we walked over to the little players and saw officials who were so obese they could not keep up with the play. Huffing and puffing along, some not even trying to keep up. It looked like town high school officiating. I witnessed a game of young men who were subjected to a totally inexperienced and intimidated child referee who would not pay any attention to the fantastic AR trying to help. Then again, I have seen some wonderful young refs this year, male and female. Just wish that they were the norm at State Cup. Quite an accomplishment to get there.

[Unregistered]

This soccer mom never sits in a chair. Shocked at the unbelievable reffing this year at State Cup. Between games we walked over to the little players and saw officials who were so obese they could not keep up with the play. Huffing and puffing along, some not even trying to keep up. It looked like town high school officiating. I witnessed a game of young men who were subjected to a totally inexperienced and intimidated child referee who would not pay any attention to the fantastic AR trying to help. Then again, I have seen some wonderful young refs this year, male and female. Just wish that they were the norm at State Cup. Quite an accomplishment to get there.

Yes that totally intimidated child ref with the great AR was a real treat. One of the worst reffing jobs I've ever seen. Not a very inspiring thing to do to a bunch of 16-years old boys who have worked their butts off to get there.

[Unregistered]

People get emotional about their kids, and this shocks you? Is this your first soccer game? Your first sporting event? Have you seen what fans in England do when Man U looses? Are you from Mars????

Big difference between parents and soccer holligans.

The soccer fans are going out with the purpose of having a few beers, getting roudy trying to create a hostile atmosphere for the opponents, having fun, and supporting their side.

Soccer parents are supposed to be role models for their children. How can you attempt to teach them self control when you can't manage to control your behavior for more than 1.5 hours.

Its ok to be unhappy with the officiating, I'll even go so far as to say it okay to let an occasional excited utterance in their direction escape your mouth, but as a parent it is completely unacceptable to be yelling and screaming at the officials. Period. There should be no debate about this.

Zero tolerance need to be implemented - AND ENFORCED.

[Unregistered]

This soccer mom never sits in a chair. Shocked at the unbelievable reffing this year at State Cup. Between games we walked over to the little players and saw officials who were so obese they could not keep up with the play. Huffing and puffing along, some not even trying to keep up. It looked like town high school officiating. I witnessed a game of young men who were subjected to a totally inexperienced and intimidated child referee who would not pay any attention to the fantastic AR trying to help. Then again, I have seen some wonderful young refs this year, male and female. Just wish that they were the norm at State Cup. Quite an accomplishment to get there.

So obese. What percentage of the American population are obese ? I'll round up 100 soccer parents, and let's put them on a track. If you are insisting that only the very fittest , non-obese people should be Referees, you will be having hundreds of games without them. I'll run against parents 10-15 years younger than me, and run them into the ground. So will many other REferees. Do you have any idea the mental and physical demands that beiing an " in demand " Refereee has on you? 3-4 games in 85 degree heat? Both weekend days, and most of us work ful ltime jobs?

I wasn't at State Cup , so I am not talking about that situation. If you feel REferees are not qualified for a particular match, that is to be put on the desk of the assignor, not the Referee.

I am speaking about MY expereince. My experience ,as an extremely fit, knowledgable and capable Referee is such that I have so many out of shape soccer moms, and to some extent dads, questioning me, screaming at me. If they feel they have the right to scream at me, I feel very sorry for the young people that are trying to get game expereince. When should a young Referee get their first Sate Cup match or final ? I get it, only if it doesn't involve, your kid, or your team.

I am so sick and tired of the growing sense of entitlement today's parents have regarding their children's activities. It is like a U 16 State cup game is life or death. The horror ! A " bad " call , a missed offside, oh my God.

The dynamics of every day life offer many injustices, bias, discrimination, nepotism, favoritism, politics, etc. When you place your child's activity at the very front of the line of importance, you actually do more harm then good developing the child. Keep yelling for that pound of flesh every time you feel denied something, and in the end run, you will end up raising children that are self centered and lacking coping and relationship skills. Then we will have another generation of Soccer parents similar to many that we have, and a notch ot two worse.