Not a ref

[Unregistered]

I have watched a lot of soccer games and while i have seen a lot of good ones and a some bad ones, here is some questions to ponder and how to fix them. I am the first one to say that i don't have the answers, but here it goes.

u-8/u-10 parents yelling at 12 to 14 year old refs
u-11 to -14 boys coaches yelling at refs to let boys play because they are not girls until it gets out of hand
u-12 to u-16 girls going shoulder to shoulder one falls and parents start yelling for foul on smaller player

How are you going to train younger refs especially girls when you have some coaches that intimidate a younger ref before the game even starts, please don;t say it doesn't happen i've seen it a plenty of times.

Also noticed that reffing at younger ages for young referees is a lot harder because coaches seem to micro manage their team more and are a lot harder on younger refs.

So my question is how is this solved i don't know the answer.

PLEASE NO REF BASHING BUT MAYBE WE COULD START A DECENT DIALOG

THANK G** I AM NOT A REF

[Unregistered]

Not a ref

I have watched a lot of soccer games and while i have seen a lot of good ones and a some bad ones, here is some questions to ponder and how to fix them. I am the first one to say that i don't have the answers, but here it goes.

u-8/u-10 parents yelling at 12 to 14 year old refs
u-11 to -14 boys coaches yelling at refs to let boys play because they are not girls until it gets out of hand
u-12 to u-16 girls going shoulder to shoulder one falls and parents start yelling for foul on smaller player

How are you going to train younger refs especially girls when you have some coaches that intimidate a younger ref before the game even starts, please don;t say it doesn't happen i've seen it a plenty of times.

Also noticed that reffing at younger ages for young referees is a lot harder because coaches seem to micro manage their team more and are a lot harder on younger refs.

So my question is how is this solved i don't know the answer.

PLEASE NO REF BASHING BUT MAYBE WE COULD START A DECENT DIALOG

THANK G** I AM NOT A REF

[Unregistered]

In my humble opinion it would be really, really helpful if the powers that be could use good judgement when it comes to assigning refs. At SC these past few weekends, I noticed a total disconnect between age and experience of refs and age and experience of players. Older, more experienced players need older, more experienced refs to control the game. Younger less experienced players can use the younger, less experienced refs. Not only was this not the case at SC, but it was STATE CUP, which means ALL the refs should be older more experienced. Too much effort has gone into arriving at the SC games for any of these teams to get young, inexperienced refs. So why did I see so many of them? It isn't fair to the young refs to be put in a pressure cooker like this, and it certainly isn't right or fair for any of the teams at SC to be the training ground for novice refs.

Just a little decent judgement and planning would be great when it comes to the more important tournaments, that's all.

[Unregistered]

in my humble opinion it would be really, really helpful if the powers that be could use good judgement when it comes to assigning refs. At sc these past few weekends, i noticed a total disconnect between age and experience of refs and age and experience of players. Older, more experienced players need older, more experienced refs to control the game. Younger less experienced players can use the younger, less experienced refs. Not only was this not the case at sc, but it was state cup, which means all the refs should be older more experienced. Too much effort has gone into arriving at the sc games for any of these teams to get young, inexperienced refs. So why did i see so many of them? It isn't fair to the young refs to be put in a pressure cooker like this, and it certainly isn't right or fair for any of the teams at sc to be the training ground for novice refs.

Just a little decent judgement and planning would be great when it comes to the more important tournaments, that's all.

right on!!!!!

[Unregistered]

OK, I have two kids who referee and I also ref.

I can tell you my kids will not referee MAPLE. To many abusive coaches, lack of -0- tolerance rules and psycho parents allowed and in some cases encouraged to be totally out of control by head coaches who do not make any attempt to help or assist. They both referee town, are booked each week with as many games as they want and can handle and make very good money.

I also referee, will be at Lancaster for MTOC and will no longer referee MAPLE either (see above)...

I used to do a lot of State Cup games but no longer do those either. Back when my local assignor had state cup games he would send out the time, field, age group and gender. I am not 20 anymore and I am not physically fit enough to do U-16 and above and I know that. I would not accept the games I could not handle. Since the death of our local assignor, the new assignor has a "you are available or not" attitude. You get the field and time but not the age or gender. I have not done a state cup game all year.

Also, I hear complaints that Maple games are not being assigned until Friday....By then, we are all booked with town, NEP and MASC games. Sorry but we are not waiting around to see IF we get games from MAPLE...we want to work when we can and go to whoever ask's first.

Lastly....when I look at some of the coaches that would be at state cup last weekend (and I ran into a few of them) they are abusive from the opening whistle and its not worth it to me (or a number of my friends) anymore. You know who they are, they have been discussed here more than once. Yup, your going to get some inexperience referees cause the rest of us are wise to their (and their parents) ways and find a reason to be elsewhere.

Maple and all leagues need to require referee feedback as part of the game report and act on it. Maybe a 1-5 scale, a warning for multiple unacceptable ratings, red card equivalent for 3 or more. I guarantee you the worse offenders would not last a 7 game season.

We are going to make mistakes and believe me, we feel as bad as you do when we make them. If you want good referee's, have a coach and a sideline that gives them respect. Believe me, we will know who you are and take your games anytime we see them.

Sorry but as the number of games and opportunity's to work increase and the pool of referees are driven away, it becomes supply and demand and we will, like any employee, follow the vale for the money equation. And at some point, no amount of money is worth it and we we may rapidly be reaching that point.

[Unregistered]

I have watched a lot of soccer games and while i have seen a lot of good ones and a some bad ones, here is some questions to ponder and how to fix them. I am the first one to say that i don't have the answers, but here it goes.

u-8/u-10 parents yelling at 12 to 14 year old refs
u-11 to -14 boys coaches yelling at refs to let boys play because they are not girls until it gets out of hand
u-12 to u-16 girls going shoulder to shoulder one falls and parents start yelling for foul on smaller player

How are you going to train younger refs especially girls when you have some coaches that intimidate a younger ref before the game even starts, please don;t say it doesn't happen i've seen it a plenty of times.

Also noticed that reffing at younger ages for young referees is a lot harder because coaches seem to micro manage their team more and are a lot harder on younger refs.

So my question is how is this solved i don't know the answer.

PLEASE NO REF BASHING BUT MAYBE WE COULD START A DECENT DIALOG

THANK G** I AM NOT A REF

----------------------------------------

u-8/u-10 parents yelling at 12 to 14 year old refs

I could not agree more. Can I come to your house and yell at your kid for doing something wrong and making mistakes trying something new to them they are trying to learn. Is that OK ???

u-11 to -14 boys coaches yelling at refs to let boys play because they are not girls until it gets out of hand

If the referee does, he will not do it more than once or twice till he gets wise. That is referee suicide.

u-12 to u-16 girls going shoulder to shoulder one falls and parents start yelling for foul on smaller player.

I had this happen last weekend..it was called against me but same exact play not called for me. It is a bad call (Tell me what the foul is by the LOTG ...?) but if you are going to call at least be consistent, that is more the maddening part

[Unregistered]

OK, I have two kids who referee and I also ref.

I can tell you my kids will not referee MAPLE. To many abusive coaches, lack of -0- tolerance rules and psycho parents allowed and in some cases encouraged to be totally out of control by head coaches who do not make any attempt to help or assist. They both referee town, are booked each week with as many games as they want and can handle and make very good money.

I also referee, will be at Lancaster for MTOC and will no longer referee MAPLE either (see above)...

I used to do a lot of State Cup games but no longer do those either. Back when my local assignor had state cup games he would send out the time, field, age group and gender. I am not 20 anymore and I am not physically fit enough to do U-16 and above and I know that. I would not accept the games I could not handle. Since the death of our local assignor, the new assignor has a "you are available or not" attitude. You get the field and time but not the age or gender. I have not done a state cup game all year.

Also, I hear complaints that Maple games are not being assigned until Friday....By then, we are all booked with town, NEP and MASC games. Sorry but we are not waiting around to see IF we get games from MAPLE...we want to work when we can and go to whoever ask's first.

Lastly....when I look at some of the coaches that would be at state cup last weekend (and I ran into a few of them) they are abusive from the opening whistle and its not worth it to me (or a number of my friends) anymore. You know who they are, they have been discussed here more than once. Yup, your going to get some inexperience referees cause the rest of us are wise to their (and their parents) ways and find a reason to be elsewhere.

Maple and all leagues need to require referee feedback as part of the game report and act on it. Maybe a 1-5 scale, a warning for multiple unacceptable ratings, red card equivalent for 3 or more. I guarantee you the worse offenders would not last a 7 game season.

We are going to make mistakes and believe me, we feel as bad as you do when we make them. If you want good referee's, have a coach and a sideline that gives them respect. Believe me, we will know who you are and take your games anytime we see them.

Sorry but as the number of games and opportunity's to work increase and the pool of referees are driven away, it becomes supply and demand and we will, like any employee, follow the vale for the money equation. And at some point, no amount of money is worth it and we we may rapidly be reaching that point.

Excellent post. I think what we need is some sort of feedback both for refs and by refs. The incompetent refs need to be shut down. They ruin it for the competent ones. The abusive coaches/parents need to be warned and then sanctioned. They ruin it for the rest of us as well. There needs to be trust and respect between refs and the teams they are reffing. Something has really taken a turn for the worst here, and it should be turned around. Blindly assigning which ever ref shows up to what ever game needs coverage, especially at a tournament as important as SC, is only going to make matters worse for all involved.

[Unregistered]

I saw a Nep game this weekend and it was worse than any maple game that i have seen in the last 8 years. U-13 boys at least 5 maybe 6 yellows.

I think ref was good, coach should been gone and maybe 2 reds for his players
So please don't make this a league thing and say you only gonna ref different leagues and Maple is worse because if i am correct the refs doing Maple, Nep, region one, are all one just different hats that day.

Nep is the same as any league no different from Maple was curios to see game because of zero policy (what a laugh).

After game opposing coach told ref to report the other coach to league.

But topic was how to teach our younger generation to be better refs.

[Unregistered]

OK, I have to speak up here though am certain I'll regret it. I am a recently certified Grade 8 ref, older adult male, parent of two players who played MAPLE for a total of 15 years. Began referring this spring. I will tell you that assignors are extremely aware of WHO they assign and to WHICH games they are assigning.

I felt fortunate to be assigned to an Andre Cup playdown game for crying out loud.
At a U18 G semifinal, the junior AR (thats the ref opposite the benches who has the fewest responsibilities) was a Grade 5 (and if you have no idea what that implies in terms of experience and ability, be quiet). In the final game the center ref was a young man whom I've watched manage several high level male games and who is very impressive though non-referees would have probably have been oblivious and not taken notice.

Your own negative observations, I feel safe in stating, were more a function of your personal investment in the games you saw and/or naivete in regard to your knowledge of the game and its laws. I would agree that there may have been an instance where a ref may have had a "difficult" game but your broad brush characterizations are out of line.

[Unregistered]

OK, I have to speak up here though am certain I'll regret it. I am a recently certified Grade 8 ref, older adult male, parent of two players who played MAPLE for a total of 15 years. Began referring this spring. I will tell you that assignors are extremely aware of WHO they assign and to WHICH games they are assigning.

I felt fortunate to be assigned to an Andre Cup playdown game for crying out loud.
At a U18 G semifinal, the junior AR (thats the ref opposite the benches who has the fewest responsibilities) was a Grade 5 (and if you have no idea what that implies in terms of experience and ability, be quiet). In the final game the center ref was a young man whom I've watched manage several high level male games and who is very impressive though non-referees would have probably have been oblivious and not taken notice.

Your own negative observations, I feel safe in stating, were more a function of your personal investment in the games you saw and/or naivete in regard to your knowledge of the game and its laws. I would agree that there may have been an instance where a ref may have
had a "difficult" game but your broad brush characterizations are out of line.

I watched a BU16 SC game reffed by a young female ref that was a disaster. The winning and loosing teams were equally horrified. She was incompetent. The older line ref was 10x better. He tried to guide her. It did not work. Why was this lost child assigned to this game? There was NO perceivable thought put into this assignment.

[Unregistered]

I watched a BU16 SC game reffed by a young female ref that was a disaster. The winning and loosing teams were equally horrified. She was incompetent. The older line ref was 10x better. He tried to guide her. It did not work. Why was this lost child assigned to this game? There was NO perceivable thought put into this assignment.

The problem with a post like this is:
-it could be spot on
OR
-it could be just typical ignorant whining

15 years of reffing tell me that great refs have bad games.
And great refs have good games that non-referees THINK are bad games.

I also know that most assignors observe the basic rule of assigning the best resources they have. Why would they invite problems upon themselves? Nevertheless, they are sometimes constrained to put someone in an undesirable situation. At which point, people have to remember this is YOUTH sports and not the WC. Take a pill.
In my experience, SC assignments are quite competitive, but the weekends are also quite busy.

Having said all that, I also acknowledge that a very few high level assignors are simply filling in names and cashing checks. Those people need to be removed.

[Unregistered]

I watched a BU16 SC game reffed by a young female ref that was a disaster. The winning and loosing teams were equally horrified. She was incompetent. The older line ref was 10x better. He tried to guide her. It did not work. Why was this lost child assigned to this game? There was NO perceivable thought put into this assignment.

How did you learn how to drive on an Interstate Highway @ 65 MPH ? Most likely you didn't learn by driving 30 MPH on side roads.

Compare the first time or two or 5 times that you drove on an Interstate Highway , compared with your 25th, or 50th time.

" horrified" . If both teasm play good soccer, the Referee should not even be an issue. It is only when players start breaking the LOTG , that the Referee is really needed.

I always wondered why Youth Soccer has the " highest level games", as those that need the most experienced Referees. If it is such a high level, shouldn't the players be highly skilled, and have the least amount of conflicts with the LOTG ? Could it possibly be that the parent imposed need for wins, glory and chest out ego fufillment is the real culprit, and not the Referee?

Please don't equate higher level professional match's need for skilled Referees. That's a no brainer.

Which is the higher level match? A U 16 boys club game with 4 cautions, and 15-20 fouls a game, or a Travel type U - 19 boys game with no cautions and barely 5 fouls?

Which players are getting the most satisfaction out of the game?

[Unregistered]

Give me a break! The U9 players have invested about 2 seasons in a sport most will drop by 6 th grade. The SC finalists have largely invested 11years in a sport many will play in college. They deserve a ref who is equally invested in the game, not some kid with a "drivers permit" reffing to pick up some extra gas money. That ref belongs at the U9 game. Those U16 players have played 100's of games to get to that competition. Those U 9 kids are just as happy playing in the sprinkler. Satisfaction?? You gravely short sell the huge positive impact a good ref can have on a game, especially an adolescent male game. These ref are thanked by the winners AND losers after the games. Do not dismiss experience as meaningless. Next time you want surgery, try handing yourself over to that brand new resident. Might work, might not, but who cares, right? As long as they mean well and what right do you have to get someone better anyway?

[Unregistered]

I watched a BU16 SC game reffed by a young female ref that was a disaster. The winning and loosing teams were equally horrified. She was incompetent. The older line ref was 10x better. He tried to guide her. It did not work. Why was this lost child assigned to this game? There was NO perceivable thought put into this assignment.

Your team lost, huh?

[Unregistered]

To posters #10 & #11:

Poster 10: Saw the second half of the game referenced by poster #9 - my kid was playing on that field next. She WAS a disaster, made terrible calls, and had no control over the game. Yep, let's face facts - 16 year old boys are gonna need a firm ref on the field and this girl was not a good match up.

Poster 11: yes, this is YOUTH sports but the teams that make round robins and subsequent semi's and finals deserve experienced refs who are enerally going to make the right calls when they need to be made. The teams work hard to get to this point in the competition and incompetent refs demean and negate that hard work with just a few poor calls.

I get that the refs will make errors but inexperience and incompetence is just not acceptable.