Needham Girls HS Hazing

[Unregistered]

You are a maroon. Probably one of those dopes that would suspend a little boy from school for bring his Leggo soldier with it's Leggo gun to school. Or the little boy with the plastic knife to spread peanutbutter on his crackers. After all the policy is NO WEAPONS at school. Or the girl who takes a tylenol because she has a headache, because all medicine must have a doctor's authorization and given out by the school nurse.

Good points. For all the nitwits who think these kids should be punished by being denied entry to college or losing scholarships think about this. How would you feel if your car was repossessed because you didn't pay your electric bill.

I am reminded of something that happened a few years back to an (Andover?) student who was class President and captain of the hockey team. He got caught with a 30 rack and was stripped of his Presidency and booted off the hockey team. He then got a letter informing him that the school was notifying the Ivy league college where he had been accepted and that his college scholarship was in jeopardy. He went back to his dorm room and hung himself. Is that what you want? Do you heartless bastards want the same punishment for every indiscretion or bad decision that a 17 year old who looks like an adult but still thinks much like a child makes? If you want retribution or punishment for true crimes against society save it for the evil soulless losers like Spader and Marks. Or you could just keep posting and prove how stupid you are.

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

It amazes me that degree of denial and whining going on about the punishment. It doesn't matter who went to BZ or why. What matters is that students were breaking the rules and got caught and were punished.

The "well it's been happening for years", or "when I went to school...", etc.. statements are a joke. C O N S E Q U E N C E S, let's all say it together C O N S E Q U E N C E S for your actions. Is it too bad - Yes. If it were my child, would I be upset and worried - yes. But guess what, you cannot change what happened or minimize it by trying to excuse it.
It seems to me that most of the whining comes form folks who believe that "it's only illegal if you get caught".

You couldn't be more wrong. They merely want to live in a society where the punishment is proportionate to the indiscretion. When did Nancy Grace start posting in this forum?

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

What if the act of hazing was tarred and feather and tied naked to a flag pole? It's still just hazing; is after school detention appropriate for that as well? Should there be various levels of punishment for different forms of hazing? How about----NO HAZING period. Seems pretty simple

Are you seriously comparing tar and feather to what was done? Really??? That is pretty scary when you think that someone could make that comparison and think both case should be judged the same way. One would hope that judgements are done with some wisdom and common sense applied. That would not seem the case here. And that is why we now have no tolerance rules in today's world. Too many lack common sense and wisdom.

[Unregistered]

I think we can boil this down to the following

1) The school would not have acted if it did not feel the situation justified it. Further the school knew the community and potential for litigation and felt they were on solid ground.

2) The I-Team would not have reported it if they also did not feel pretty bulletproof from litigation. They knew they would be causing a stink in a wealthy community that no doubt had many "trigger happy" lawyers, cause as a lawyer if you will not sue for anything you do not live in communities like Needham...

3) No one has really denied this happen, just that it was "blown out of proportion" or "take out of context". Seniors (top of HS food chain) had freshman (bottom of HS food chain) blindfolded, on leash's, wearing collars and hit with some kind of pie. What context would anyone like us to take it into ? This is one group exercising abusive power over another because they can. The fact that someone did not get badly injured doesn't make it OK

4) Dope slap of the year award, parent or parents go to court. The BEST you could have hoped for is that the kids got to play and were humiliated in the press once someone caught wind of it which was guaranteed as soon as you filed papers. To you, Mr Parent of the Year Lawyer the importance of your daughter and her teammates playing in a District Game was more important that the public ridicule these misguided children have had to face. Bravo, you have the intellect of an eye-dropper !

5) We will never know the level of complicity of Mr. T but it is apparent that he will be back next year. And we are all wondering why the team is rallying around there comrades and coach. Fail to do so and "Kiss your keestier goodbye" if you think you are playing HS soccer again in Needham. Please note the delay (a few days) in the full throttle support for coach and teammates, took a bit for the message to get through and the wagons to be circled. More importantly, once the Administration stated the coach was not suspended but on "paid leave" and had provided Needham with "A decade of service" everyone knew...wink wink...coach T is coming back. I better not be seen as someone who is not in full support of him and team. PLEASE >>>> To me this is about as genuine as most of figures from the waist up on the mothers on the Needhams sidelines. Want a real feeling for the pulse of how people feel, fire the coach. Then people can speak without fear of retribution.

6) The Coaches biggest and most vocal supporter is his Assn Coach and Business partner. No conflict of interest there. This is supposed to make these two look better ??? Grab a mike and proclaim his innocence, no one will figure out I have a vested interest. He should have been the FIRST PERSON to STFU, not seen as the one rallying the troops. But he has the genuine concerns for the parents and children at heart, assuming his heart has been transplanted with a wallet. He insults our intelligence and makes the whole thing look more pathetic.

My daughter is a freshman on her varsity squad and she has been through the club grind, has had coaches speak to her in ways that would not be acceptable outside of a sports venue. Believe me she is no "shrinking violet". I got as far as the leashes and she said "Yeah dad, I would tell them to "F" off and if they tried to force it we would go to blows. If that is the cost of staying on the team, their loss.."

We could also have a great discussion on why we allow our children to be treated by coaches and within sports so entirely differently that we would EVER accept outside sports, but that is a rant for another day.

At the end of the day, this was stupid squared, the children were stupid, the parents who sued were even more stupid, the coach not making any statement at all is stupid (hoping it will blow over...how is that working for you), the school administration is stupid (if you want the truth, fire the coach..no one talks freely as long as he is there, for right or wrong) and of course, the Darwin was proven wrong award of the year goes to the parent or parent who filed suit. Any hope you had for your kids staying under the radar died the minute you did.

All for a HS district soccer game. What a sad measure of your life and its priorities !

[Unregistered]

You are a maroon. Probably one of those dopes that would suspend a little boy from school for bring his Leggo soldier with it's Leggo gun to school. Or the little boy with the plastic knife to spread peanutbutter on his crackers. After all the policy is NO WEAPONS at school. Or the girl who takes a tylenol because she has a headache, because all medicine must have a doctor's authorization and given out by the school nurse.

And we wonder why our public schools are in such bad shape! Thank God I've been able to afford to get mine out.

[Unregistered]

Good points. For all the nitwits who think these kids should be punished by being denied entry to college or losing scholarships think about this. How would you feel if your car was repossessed because you didn't pay your electric bill.

I am reminded of something that happened a few years back to an (Andover?) student who was class President and captain of the hockey team. He got caught with a 30 rack and was stripped of his Presidency and booted off the hockey team. He then got a letter informing him that the school was notifying the Ivy league college where he had been accepted and that his college scholarship was in jeopardy. He went back to his dorm room and hung himself. Is that what you want? Do you heartless bastards want the same punishment for every indiscretion or bad decision that a 17 year old who looks like an adult but still thinks much like a child makes? If you want retribution or punishment for true crimes against society save it for the evil soulless losers like Spader and Marks. Or you could just keep posting and prove how stupid you are.

- Cujo

You're right Cujo, the 30 rack should have gone unpunished and maybe the next 30 rack could have resulted in him killing someone else. Get a clue

[Unregistered]

Every participating athlete in an MIAA school is instructed as to code of conduct and that hazing will not be tolerated. How any sane person can argue that the incident was not hazing is beyond me. The girls broke the rules, school has authority to hand down punishment and did. The end.

[Unregistered]

It amazes me that degree of denial and whining going on about the punishment. It doesn't matter who went to BZ or why. What matters is that students were breaking the rules and got caught and were punished.

The "well it's been happening for years", or "when I went to school...", etc.. statements are a joke. C O N S E Q U E N C E S, let's all say it together C O N S E Q U E N C E S for your actions. Is it too bad - Yes. If it were my child, would I be upset and worried - yes. But guess what, you cannot change what happened or minimize it by trying to excuse it.
It seems to me that most of the whining comes form folks who believe that "it's only illegal if you get caught".

It doesn't matter that WBZ was how the school came to know about the incident? NOT the parents of the "hazed" freshmen making a complaint??? You must be the dope who suspends kids for carrying a Lego gun to school to have even posted that post.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2...ge6173680x.jpg

WHAT MATTERS IS THAT STUDENT WAS BREAKING THE RULES AND GOT CAUGHT AND WAS PUNISHED!

[Unregistered]

Every participating athlete in an MIAA school is instructed as to code of conduct and that hazing will not be tolerated. How any sane person can argue that the incident was not hazing is beyond me. The girls broke the rules, school has authority to hand down punishment and did. The end.

I would agree, but 2-5 days suspension of 12 or 13 girls for this incident???? That's where we diverge in our agreement.

[Unregistered]

Good points. For all the nitwits who think these kids should be punished by being denied entry to college or losing scholarships think about this. How would you feel if your car was repossessed because you didn't pay your electric bill.

I am reminded of something that happened a few years back to an (Andover?) student who was class President and captain of the hockey team. He got caught with a 30 rack and was stripped of his Presidency and booted off the hockey team. He then got a letter informing him that the school was notifying the Ivy league college where he had been accepted and that his college scholarship was in jeopardy. He went back to his dorm room and hung himself. Is that what you want? Do you heartless bastards want the same punishment for every indiscretion or bad decision that a 17 year old who looks like an adult but still thinks much like a child makes? If you want retribution or punishment for true crimes against society save it for the evil soulless losers like Spader and Marks. Or you could just keep posting and prove how stupid you are.

- Cujo

Holy mackerel, Cujo! You are so right on this one!!

[Unregistered]

I think we can boil this down to the following

1) The school would not have acted if it did not feel the situation justified it. Further the school knew the community and potential for litigation and felt they were on solid ground.

2) The I-Team would not have reported it if they also did not feel pretty bulletproof from litigation. They knew they would be causing a stink in a wealthy community that no doubt had many "trigger happy" lawyers, cause as a lawyer if you will not sue for anything you do not live in communities like Needham...

3) No one has really denied this happen, just that it was "blown out of proportion" or "take out of context". Seniors (top of HS food chain) had freshman (bottom of HS food chain) blindfolded, on leash's, wearing collars and hit with some kind of pie. What context would anyone like us to take it into ? This is one group exercising abusive power over another because they can. The fact that someone did not get badly injured doesn't make it OK

4) Dope slap of the year award, parent or parents go to court. The BEST you could have hoped for is that the kids got to play and were humiliated in the press once someone caught wind of it which was guaranteed as soon as you filed papers. To you, Mr Parent of the Year Lawyer the importance of your daughter and her teammates playing in a District Game was more important that the public ridicule these misguided children have had to face. Bravo, you have the intellect of an eye-dropper !

5) We will never know the level of complicity of Mr. T but it is apparent that he will be back next year. And we are all wondering why the team is rallying around there comrades and coach. Fail to do so and "Kiss your keestier goodbye" if you think you are playing HS soccer again in Needham. Please note the delay (a few days) in the full throttle support for coach and teammates, took a bit for the message to get through and the wagons to be circled. More importantly, once the Administration stated the coach was not suspended but on "paid leave" and had provided Needham with "A decade of service" everyone knew...wink wink...coach T is coming back. I better not be seen as someone who is not in full support of him and team. PLEASE >>>> To me this is about as genuine as most of figures from the waist up on the mothers on the Needhams sidelines. Want a real feeling for the pulse of how people feel, fire the coach. Then people can speak without fear of retribution.

6) The Coaches biggest and most vocal supporter is his Assn Coach and Business partner. No conflict of interest there. This is supposed to make these two look better ??? Grab a mike and proclaim his innocence, no one will figure out I have a vested interest. He should have been the FIRST PERSON to STFU, not seen as the one rallying the troops. But he has the genuine concerns for the parents and children at heart, assuming his heart has been transplanted with a wallet. He insults our intelligence and makes the whole thing look more pathetic.

My daughter is a freshman on her varsity squad and she has been through the club grind, has had coaches speak to her in ways that would not be acceptable outside of a sports venue. Believe me she is no "shrinking violet". I got as far as the leashes and she said "Yeah dad, I would tell them to "F" off and if they tried to force it we would go to blows. If that is the cost of staying on the team, their loss.."

We could also have a great discussion on why we allow our children to be treated by coaches and within sports so entirely differently that we would EVER accept outside sports, but that is a rant for another day.

At the end of the day, this was stupid squared, the children were stupid, the parents who sued were even more stupid, the coach not making any statement at all is stupid (hoping it will blow over...how is that working for you), the school administration is stupid (if you want the truth, fire the coach..no one talks freely as long as he is there, for right or wrong) and of course, the Darwin was proven wrong award of the year goes to the parent or parent who filed suit. Any hope you had for your kids staying under the radar died the minute you did.

All for a HS district soccer game. What a sad measure of your life and its priorities !

Great line!

[Unregistered]

Once again, there is NO evidence of this. The only evidence is that a parent of one of the hazed freshman went to court. So it would seem that you are among those escalating the problem through misinformation.

Some anonymous poster appears to be a Needham parent who likes digging a deeper hole. On the other hand, if the anonymous poster is trying to lampoon a Needham parent, then this last post is brilliant.

The parents of the five students went to court Monday to fight the suspensions, but Judge Barbara Dortch-Okara denied the injuction Tuesday morning, ruling “the plaintiffs have not shown a likelihood of success on the merits at trial.”

Until I can find the petition for an injunction on line, I will go with the local news report, which reads parents of...

I still claim nobody would be talking about this outside of Needham without somebody filing a petition for an injunction. Somebody, who was smart enough to hire a lawyer, or smart enough to be a lawyer himself, filed without thinking about the impact it would have.

This anonymous poster has an ax to grind: I am tired of rich people manipulating bureaucracies to their advantage. Your attempt to carve out special treatment for your children failed horribly this time. Admit your failure and move on.

Poor Brockton, they probably wanted to play a competitive match.

[Unregistered]

I would agree, but 2-5 days suspension of 12 or 13 girls for this incident???? That's where we diverge in our agreement.

You would have done what instead?

[Unregistered]

Cujo is right. Punishment should fit the crime. Getting caught with a 30 pack is wrong. Unfortunately, most teenagers sneak around and drink beer. If this was a kids first offense, noticing their colleges is excessive. Warning them, placing them on probation, assigning them to structured study hall or a school work detail, sitting them in sports for a couple games, or limiting their weekend leaves, (which is where the majority of drinking happens) are all better punishments. Warn them that next time they screw up for anything the school is required to notify colleges and kick them out.

[Unregistered]

I would agree, but 2-5 days suspension of 12 or 13 girls for this incident???? That's where we diverge in our agreement.

I don't disagree that the punishment may or may not be too harsh. But that is an issue to take up with the school administration, and it may vary from girl to girl depending on individual circumstances. I work closely as a parent coordinator with the principal of our public high school and see the struggle and hours and hours of work he puts in to make sure every aspect of student discipline is investigated and fair. I have no idea how the Needham high school system works but it's ultimately up to them. There is no doubt, however, that every girl on the team has been informed of the anti-hazing policies.

And the way the gossip mill works, believe me, the administration would have heard about this incident by means other than the press.

As an aside, the coach has a responsibility to know about this stuff and to discuss the rules and regs prior to the season; he should be gone IMO.