Needham Girls HS Hazing

[Unregistered]

I am a college coach and the NCAA does identify any behavior (including making fresh carry equipment or having to shave their heads, which is often done in hockey and football) as hazing. While I don't agree with all of it, here is my 2 cents on the topic at least in the college setting:

1) People who accept it as a "rite of passage" are probably people, like myself, who were hazed. What happens is you get hazed and then can't wait to pay it forward to the next class of freshmen...the cycle continues with the "well, I had to go through it" mindset, and it usually gets worse year to year. As a player I agreed with that, but now as a coach and athletics administrator I totally get why that thinking is flawed.

2) People assume that the "hazers" will always use common sense. Most incidents in college involve alcohol, with people making worse decisions as the night goes on. The reason the NCAA jumped all over this subject a few years ago was due to the rash of injuries and deaths involving these incidents.

3) You never know what "hidden harm" hazing could cause. Let's say it's having a group of freshmen girls stand in their bikinis...maybe one has an eating disorder, maybe one was abused, maybe they are just terribly self-conscious. May seem harmless, but you really never know what could cause a lot of emotional pain for these kids.

4) The "voluntary" hazing argument is the same as "voluntary" workouts - you don't show up, it's held against you. Everyone knows it, everyone therefore shows up.

5) Lastly and most importantly, most of the teams involved in hazing say it's for "team bonding", and yet most of the activities do just the opposite. We don't have freshmen do anything that upperclassmen don't do, including carrying equipment. Why? Because we don't want them to act like freshmen, we want them to act like teammates. We can't treat them like they are freshmen off the field but then expect them to step up and play like upperclassmen on it. Here's a task for coaches: have your players write down what their goals for the team are on an index card prior to the season starting. Put them up on the board, and then ask them what hazing has to do with advancing those goals.

With all that said, I don't think the Needham case is criminal, but agree with the suspensions. And the kids who are committed to colleges will have some explaining to do, although I doubt any would now lose their opportunity to play.

I was pleased to see there is someone in coaching that gets it. The sad part is there are parents and coaches out there that don't.

[Unregistered]

As someone who has been heavily involved in youth sports or almost a decade now I can tell you this was totally and completely WRONG and I can also tell you that it will have it supporters using the excuse of "team bonding", "normal ritual of sports"...etc ! Accepting this as "part of sports" is like calling rape "rough sex". Do not accept this in your children's lives even as they become young adults, there is no place for this in any relationships we as young or older adults have in our lives.

But we should look at the larger issues. Why are we surprised that the parents went to court, they raised kids (or so it would appear) that think THIS IS OK ...so we are surprised the looked for an injunction. Why ?

Here is what I find way past distrubing .... the coach knew about the incident, his daughter who he raised and instill the values to think this was OK was one of the players involved in the hazing and he was one of the parents that went to court to get the suspension lifted for his daughter and other 4 players.

His kid was one of the ones who did it, he tried to hide it and then he went to court to get her back on the field (in effect accepting her and her teammates actions as not at all serious).

I come to two conclusions and I think all and all they are not debateable

1) Why are we surprised his daughter was involved...he may be a good coach but how can you not see that his moral compass is non - existant.

2) Is this the kind of role model we want...EVER .. coaching at any level, High school, Club, whatever.

So again we have another high profile coach that is not at all worth the trust and respect we have given.

I am not sure which is worse, the knuckleheads who think this is OK or the incredibly small pool of coaches we seem to have left anymore that deserve to be role models to our CHILDREN, because like it or not when you take that job you ARE a role model and you better be up to the task, it is another and probably MOST important part of the job.

Soapbox ended...draw your own opinions...

[Unregistered]

As someone who has been heavily involved in youth sports or almost a decade now I can tell you this was totally and completely WRONG and I can also tell you that it will have it supporters using the excuse of "team bonding", "normal ritual of sports"...etc ! Accepting this as "part of sports" is like calling rape "rough sex". Do not accept this in your children's lives even as they become young adults, there is no place for this in any relationships we as young or older adults have in our lives.

But we should look at the larger issues. Why are we surprised that the parents went to court, they raised kids (or so it would appear) that think THIS IS OK ...so we are surprised the looked for an injunction. Why ?

Here is what I find way past distrubing .... the coach knew about the incident, his daughter who he raised and instill the values to think this was OK was one of the players involved in the hazing and he was one of the parents that went to court to get the suspension lifted for his daughter and other 4 players.

His kid was one of the ones who did it, he tried to hide it and then he went to court to get her back on the field (in effect accepting her and her teammates actions as not at all serious).

I come to two conclusions and I think all and all they are not debateable

1) Why are we surprised his daughter was involved...he may be a good coach but how can you not see that his moral compass is non - existant.

2) Is this the kind of role model we want...EVER .. coaching at any level, High school, Club, whatever.

So again we have another high profile coach that is not at all worth the trust and respect we have given.

I am not sure which is worse, the knuckleheads who think this is OK or the incredibly small pool of coaches we seem to have left anymore that deserve to be role models to our CHILDREN, because like it or not when you take that job you ARE a role model and you better be up to the task, it is another and probably MOST important part of the job.

Soapbox ended...draw your own opinions...

Think NEFC will have anything to do with him now?

[Unregistered]

As someone who has been heavily involved in youth sports or almost a decade now I can tell you this was totally and completely WRONG and I can also tell you that it will have it supporters using the excuse of "team bonding", "normal ritual of sports"...etc ! Accepting this as "part of sports" is like calling rape "rough sex". Do not accept this in your children's lives even as they become young adults, there is no place for this in any relationships we as young or older adults have in our lives.

But we should look at the larger issues. Why are we surprised that the parents went to court, they raised kids (or so it would appear) that think THIS IS OK ...so we are surprised the looked for an injunction. Why ?

Here is what I find way past distrubing .... the coach knew about the incident, his daughter who he raised and instill the values to think this was OK was one of the players involved in the hazing and he was one of the parents that went to court to get the suspension lifted for his daughter and other 4 players.

His kid was one of the ones who did it, he tried to hide it and then he went to court to get her back on the field (in effect accepting her and her teammates actions as not at all serious).

I come to two conclusions and I think all and all they are not debateable

1) Why are we surprised his daughter was involved...he may be a good coach but how can you not see that his moral compass is non - existant.

2) Is this the kind of role model we want...EVER .. coaching at any level, High school, Club, whatever.

So again we have another high profile coach that is not at all worth the trust and respect we have given.

I am not sure which is worse, the knuckleheads who think this is OK or the incredibly small pool of coaches we seem to have left anymore that deserve to be role models to our CHILDREN, because like it or not when you take that job you ARE a role model and you better be up to the task, it is another and probably MOST important part of the job.

Soapbox ended...draw your own opinions...

New to this area but this post is DEAD ON. Curious as to whether there were any hazing incidents in prior years wiht this coach/team? And why did the hazing take place at the end of the season? I would think any sort of actions like this would have been done in the pre season?

[Unregistered]

Is this something the college coach decides or is it admissions?

Depends on the college, but it is probably the coach that would decide. If this is not criminal and just an athletic incident, admissions would never learn of it. The coach probably would though.

[Unregistered]

I am a college coach and the NCAA does identify any behavior (including making fresh carry equipment or having to shave their heads, which is often done in hockey and football) as hazing. While I don't agree with all of it, here is my 2 cents on the topic at least in the college setting:

1) People who accept it as a "rite of passage" are probably people, like myself, who were hazed. What happens is you get hazed and then can't wait to pay it forward to the next class of freshmen...the cycle continues with the "well, I had to go through it" mindset, and it usually gets worse year to year. As a player I agreed with that, but now as a coach and athletics administrator I totally get why that thinking is flawed.

2) People assume that the "hazers" will always use common sense. Most incidents in college involve alcohol, with people making worse decisions as the night goes on. The reason the NCAA jumped all over this subject a few years ago was due to the rash of injuries and deaths involving these incidents.

3) You never know what "hidden harm" hazing could cause. Let's say it's having a group of freshmen girls stand in their bikinis...maybe one has an eating disorder, maybe one was abused, maybe they are just terribly self-conscious. May seem harmless, but you really never know what could cause a lot of emotional pain for these kids.

4) The "voluntary" hazing argument is the same as "voluntary" workouts - you don't show up, it's held against you. Everyone knows it, everyone therefore shows up.

5) Lastly and most importantly, most of the teams involved in hazing say it's for "team bonding", and yet most of the activities do just the opposite. We don't have freshmen do anything that upperclassmen don't do, including carrying equipment. Why? Because we don't want them to act like freshmen, we want them to act like teammates. We can't treat them like they are freshmen off the field but then expect them to step up and play like upperclassmen on it. Here's a task for coaches: have your players write down what their goals for the team are on an index card prior to the season starting. Put them up on the board, and then ask them what hazing has to do with advancing those goals.

With all that said, I don't think the Needham case is criminal, but agree with the suspensions. And the kids who are committed to colleges will have some explaining to do, although I doubt any would now lose their opportunity to play.

The return of coachgg? Sounds like her to me. If so, welcome back.

[Unregistered]

New to this area but this post is DEAD ON. Curious as to whether there were any hazing incidents in prior years wiht this coach/team? And why did the hazing take place at the end of the season? I would think any sort of actions like this would have been done in the pre season?

Excellent point. Maybe what happened were the girls were brought up to Varsity from JV's for the playoffs.

[Unregistered]

Unless you personlly know this man and his family,or were involved in this please be quiet. What should he have done? I am sure that you are such a fine example you can tell us the right way to have handeled this.

I think many of us would have told our daughters they were stupid and wrong and would have to pay the consequences; we would not have gone to court.

[Unregistered]

Excellent point. Maybe what happened were the girls were brought up to Varsity from JV's for the playoffs.

Two of the three freshman were on varisty since the start of the season. One came up early in the season. I'm not sure why they waited until the end of the season. My guess is that it became more of a celebration of the strong season they just completed as well as a preparation for the upcoming playoffs in which they were, and I stress "were", projected to do quite well.

[Unregistered]

Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" is a more appropriate analogy of the people harping on this issue than it is is about the players behaviors.

No it isn't. It is describing YOU.

The Lottery was about the ritual, evil, senseless murder by stoning of an innocent member of a mysterious community. The victim was picked randomly by lottery. It was an incredibly effective commendation of all those people and human institutions who use the line "because we've always done it that way" to justify their immoral, cruel behavior.

All of you who are putting down the people who are trying to eliminate hazing/bullying as acceptable social behavior by calling them whimps and ridiculing them for wanting to change something that HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY are PICKING UP STONES.

[Unregistered]

I'm just wondering how many of the self-righteous parents on here actually realize what their kids are doing on their own teams. I bet they would be surprised at how much the kids keep from them - I don't care how good of a relationship they think they have with them!

[Unregistered]

I'm just wondering how many of the self-righteous parents on here actually realize what their kids are doing on their own teams. I bet they would be surprised at how much the kids keep from them - I don't care how good of a relationship they think they have with them!

Mine is not putting collars on anyone.

[Unregistered]

I know this man and he is very honorable. I am sure that his daughter, if involved, is being taught a life lesson. Should he lock her in her room with only bread and water for dinner, is that punishment enough for you? Doing community service is a just punishment for the acts committed.

If it were my kid, I'd chew her a new you-know-what and support the school administrator's decision for punishment. What in God's name was she thinking??? And now it's all over TV and the newspapers! They may not print her name, but everybody is sooner or later know who is involved, so they might as well print it.

[Unregistered]

No it isn't. It is describing YOU.

The Lottery was about the ritual, evil, senseless murder by stoning of an innocent member of a mysterious community. The victim was picked randomly by lottery. It was an incredibly effective commendation of all those people and human institutions who use the line "because we've always done it that way" to justify their immoral, cruel behavior.

All of you who are putting down the people who are trying to eliminate hazing/bullying as acceptable social behavior by calling them whimps and ridiculing them for wanting to change something that HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY are PICKING UP STONES.

Agreed, that's why I recommended that people read "The Lottery."

Yes, I was a Psych/Sociology major.

[Unregistered]

every high school team in america participates in some sort of hazing. although your sons or daughters may not run home to tell their parents about it (as freshman or seniors) it still happens. just because this time the freshman ran home to tell on the big bag seniors they get suspended? its crazy that these poor girls would undergo such consequences for something that happens on every field, at every high school. when your kids in high school they should be able to man up and handle harmless pranks. im sure these girls weren't looking to harm any of the freshman involved, only to carry on the traditions that have gone on for years and years at their school. to think that these girl's futures are put in jeopardy just because a few freshman cant take a joke is ridiculous. grow up and man up .. very annoyed by all this crap.